RE: Phoenix plagued by drug cartel kidnappings

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RE: Phoenix plagued by drug cartel kidnappings - 3/6/2009 7:13:17 AM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

When I read this, I recalled reading that blood testing was quite effective in detecting recent marijuana use.

So I checked, by doing a Google search on the strings "marijuana blood test". And sure enough, there, on the very first link, was the data I was reaching for.

Yes, but cops can't administer blood tests on the side of the road. I'm pretty sure that blood tests have to be administered by medical professionals. I suppose you could delegate that task to paramedics, whom could be called to the scene when needed. But blood samples have to be sent to labs if I'm not mistaken. So are you going to hold the alleged impaired driver/machine operator until the tests come back? From what I understand, currently police do tests like you see on television (I forget the exact terminology for it.). You know, where they test pupil dilation, balance, etc. It's still not an accurate method. With marijuana legalization, it would be a problem that would need addressing. It would be complicated sorting it out.

No, but the porkers can administer saliva tests.
http://www.uritoxmedicaltesting.com/oralsaliva.html

So why do you think DUI-MJ is such a horrible problem?

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RE: Phoenix plagued by drug cartel kidnappings - 3/6/2009 4:23:32 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

No, but the porkers can administer saliva tests.
http://www.uritoxmedicaltesting.com/oralsaliva.html

So why do you think DUI-MJ is such a horrible problem?

Hippie, I've drove drunk and high. Yes, I admit it. I've broke that law in the past, and I did it more than once. Everyone I knew who smoked drove while under the influence. I heard the line, "I'd rather be on the road with someone high, than a drunk." Okay fine, I understand that. But anyone who tells me that pot doesn't affect your driving skills, has either never been high, is an idiot, or a damn liar. You know that people do it, and you know that it presents a danger to other motorists. Being high and working around machinery or in other dangerous environments is also not smart. I've never ran into a cop with one of those saliva tests. They have to be certified to administer them. I'm not even sure how accurate they are. All I'm saying is that testing folks for marijuana in those situations presents a problem.

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RE: Phoenix plagued by drug cartel kidnappings - 3/6/2009 4:38:09 PM

Hippiekinkster

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Slaveboy:
"A description is given of epidemiological studies to determine the role of cannabis in road crashes. The pharmacological problems associated with these studies are described. The results of studies within the last 10 years have failed to present clear evidence for a role of cannabis in road crashes. The role of alcohol in all studies has proved to be dominant. "
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/MISC/driving/driving2_1.htm

And: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_driving4.shtml
"Abstract: This report concerns the effects of marijuana smoking on actual driving performance. It presents the results of one pilot and three actual driving studies. The pilot study's major purpose was to establish the THC dose current marijuana users smoke to achieve their desired "high". From these results it was decided that the maximum THC dose for subsequent driving studies would be 300 mcg / kg (0.3 mg / kg). The first driving study was conducted on a closed section of a primary highway. After smoking marijuana delivering THC doses of 0, 100, 200, and 300 mcg / kg, subjects drove a car while maintaining a constant speed and lateral position. This study was replicated with a new group of subjects, but now in the presence of other traffic. In addition, a car following test was executed. The third driving study compared the effects of a modest dose of THC (100 mcg / kg) and alcohol )BAC of 0.04 g %) on city driving performance. This program of research has shown that marijuana, when taken alone, produces a moderate degree of driving impairment which is related to the consumed THC dose. The impairment manifests itself mainly in the ability to maintain a steady lateral position on the road, but its magnitude is not exceptional in comparison with changes produced by many medicinal drugs and alcohol. Drivers under the influence of marijuana retain insight in their performance and will compensate where they can, for example, by slowing down or increasing effort. As a consequence, THC's adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small."

Saliva testing:
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/10_03.pdf
I don't think saliva testing is ready for usage by porkers, myself; I've read there are problems with false negatives and false positives.

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 3/6/2009 4:53:27 PM >

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RE: Phoenix plagued by drug cartel kidnappings - 3/6/2009 4:51:01 PM

Crush

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Never fails...we create a new class of criminal, usually very violent because of the risk associated with the trade of whatever becomes prohibited. What happens when we legalize it? Well, we bring on different problems. But problems we can address more effectively.

Prohibition caused an amazing evolution/revolution in crime...and NASCAR...but now it is regulated and you can even brew your own. And we don't have people being gunned down the street for alcohol. But we DO have people being gunned down for drugs/money for drugs.

Legalize the stuff. Some will, um, how do I say this....remove themselves from the gene pool. Inevitably, we'll still have druggies, but we still have alcoholics. They just go to meetings...drunks don't!

Duuuude....where's my car?

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RE: Phoenix plagued by drug cartel kidnappings - 3/6/2009 5:02:55 PM

camille65

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Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

When I read this, I recalled reading that blood testing was quite effective in detecting recent marijuana use.

So I checked, by doing a Google search on the strings "marijuana blood test". And sure enough, there, on the very first link, was the data I was reaching for.

Yes, but cops can't administer blood tests on the side of the road. I'm pretty sure that blood tests have to be administered by medical professionals. I suppose you could delegate that task to paramedics, whom could be called to the scene when needed. But blood samples have to be sent to labs if I'm not mistaken. So are you going to hold the alleged impaired driver/machine operator until the tests come back? From what I understand, currently police do tests like you see on television (I forget the exact terminology for it.). You know, where they test pupil dilation, balance, etc. It's still not an accurate method. With marijuana legalization, it would be a problem that would need addressing. It would be complicated sorting it out.

Not on blood tests but on urine tests:

I am a 43 year old female who weighs 143lbs. I've been a nearly daily user of pot for the past 20+ years (with intermittent stoppages before that), my urine tested positive for traces of THC a full 30 days after quitting. My next urine screen is on May 25th which will then be a full 60 days without pot. (Okay fine I almost made it without a whine but dammit I wannnnnnnnnnnt my doobies back!!)

Aquilifer I have enjoyed your posts on this thread btw.

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RE: Phoenix plagued by drug cartel kidnappings - 3/6/2009 7:07:25 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval
A few posters here have suggested legalizing drugs to take the money out of the drug trade but that still leaves the problem of kidnapping people for ransom.

        The effects of legalization on crime are an interesting aspect of the debate, Ven. On the one hand, the junkie who needs a fix and robs the old lady would probably be a thing of the past. We would probably see a lot less of the insane tweaker mayhem and violence if they were using actual crystal meth, instead of a toxic crust made from decongestants, truck starting fluid and rat poison. Potheads are clogging our courts and jails, and stealing millions of law enforcement man-hours and billions of dollars. That side looks good when we talk about crime.

       The other hand is that the criminals and gangs who have made drug money their lifeblood aren't all going to get jobs flipping burgers. They will turn to other forms of crime, and their violence will spread far beyond the former competition. I think we would see a nasty spike in armed robbery, home invasions, kidnappings, extortion, and whatever else they dream up. Some people in the business are pretty damn clever. Bad things will happen to good people.

     The difference is that the benefits would be permanent, and the transition of the dealers and gangs would be a temporary spike. We'll have plenty of cells to put them in, and cops with the time to track them down.



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Post #: 46

RE: Phoenix plagued by drug cartel kidnappings - 3/6/2009 8:17:22 PM

popeye1250

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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

President Obama needs to put Troops along that Mexican border.
I think the drug cartels are "testing" his resolve.

Popeye, you were in the Coast Guard if I remember. Let me ask you something; I had this idea years ago. Why can't the Border Patrol be more military structured like the Coast Guard? We could recruit 18 year olds right out of high school for the Border Patrol. Currently it's just a police force, and it takes awhile to train them. I don't see why the Border Patrol should be any more hard to train for than the Coast Guard. Both guard the borders, just on different fronts. We could offer Border Patrol recruits the same packages other branches of the military get, and we'd increase our manpower on the borders for less cost. I've never understood why the Border Patrol and the Coast Guard are structured so differently, when they have very similar responsibilities. Give us your expertise. Do you think that would help?

Slaveboy, why bother? It wouldn't really benefit the Border Patrol to do that.
And if it gets too bad along the border like it is now you just put federal troops along it like they *should be doing* now.
And, the C.G. has differant missions than the Border Patrol.
Search and Rescue will always be the number one mission before anything else.
Yes, the Border Patrol and Coast Guard do share one mission but the C.G. has many more as well from evacuating women in labor from various islands off the coast (Nantucket) fun!) to doing drug busts in the Carribean to fighting fires on board ships.
The CG is much more mobile than the Border Patrol and they don't "go home" everynight like the BP, you could be on drug patrol for 2-3 months so you're gone away from home for 2-3 months.

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