RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/5/2009 9:08:25 AM)

You say *that* like it's a bad thing, boijen.

Personally, I have no interest in brats.  I have no need for disobedience to inspire My sadism.  It's alive and well all on it's own, thanks.

That doesn't mean clip doesn't have a mind of his own.  There are even things he doesn't agree with Me about.  The difference is, he knows My decision is what will be carried out.



BoiJen -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/5/2009 9:11:57 AM)

I should only have to fight my food if it's a steak



AAkasha -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/5/2009 9:44:10 AM)



I don't like resistance for the sake of resistance, or bad behavior just because it's attention-seeking.
I like authentic vulnerability, though. Not mindless submission.  I like difficult surrender, and seeing that sort of conflict that comes from submitting to things that are not necessarily enjoyable, but he does it for me and for my pleasure.  On some levels I can enjoy very strict, almost brave obedience, but not if it is robotic, more if it's dutiful and proud.  I like a wide variety of "styles" of submission but have my moods where I crave one thing over another - but I never like stoic, boring, robotic surrender, and I never like deliberate and obnoxious misbehaving for attention. 

There's a "sweet spot" for me that's right in the middle. The struggle, in a sense, is one he is having *with himself* to please me- not a struggle he is having with ME, if that makes sense.

Similarly, I like reactions way above non-reactions, so if flinching and pulling away from a fistful of hair is considered "resistance," then sign me up. I prefer that to just taking it without reaction.  I don't consider that resistance though, I consider that human reaction.  Above all though, I want authenticity - so if he can feign all kinds of hot, sexy reactions but it's clear he's just acting, I find that to be a turn off.  If he's doing it *for real*, I find it incredibly hot. If he's acting but I honestly can't tell, you probably won't find me trying to uncover the truth. If I am turned on by it, that's all that matters.

Akasha



MistressDolly -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/5/2009 11:52:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Inglevine

I find that I often feel rather different than most Dominant women, in that I very much prefer "bratty" subs. I definitely want to be in control and for him to ultimately do what I say, but the fight and struggle is half the fun. I like when subs are cheeky or when they try and disobey. It gives me a reason to punish them. ;) And I like to know that my sub has a will and desires of his own. I have no interest in playing with someone who, to me, feels like a robot I can control by pushing buttons. I need to feel that there's a real person there.

Any other Dommes feel this way?


I enjoy the exchange of authority. Power struggles have no place in M/s relationships: either you want to relinquish your authority and serve me, or you do not. :)



MzticStormz -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/5/2009 12:30:08 PM)

 
   I don't equate battiness with willful disobedience.  A sub will sometimes resort to battiness as a defense against some things that might make him uncomfortable and at that time is when I can redirect the "play" - bend him to my will.  It shows me many of his inner thoughts when he thinks he is just being a brat.  Usually with just one look from me or a direct command; I can end the playful battiness for those serious moments.    I, like the OP like a little bit of brat in my sub. Grfeat question, Thank you!

Mz Stormz



DavanKael -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/5/2009 1:06:52 PM)

The only relationship I have been in with a person formally on the s-side of the kneel to me involves a complex interrelation where there is a fair bit of fight between us.  Haven't ever had the opportunity to explore this with said other completely unfettered but my suspicion is that beyond the initial foreplay, that fight would settle down into utter devotion.  What a delicious thought....
  Davan



ShaktiSama -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/5/2009 5:04:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inglevine
I just find that rather too often for my own tastes I'll ask a sub, "What do you like?" and he'll respond with, "Whatever you like, Mistress." Nothing is guaranteed to make my interest wan like that. He's got to have his own mind and preference.

And I'm not so into servitude. It's all about the interaction and emotion for me. And, I think, total compliance detracts from the emotion of a scene while a bit of struggle adds to it.


I find that you and others are conflating two different things. There is no excuse for being a limp noodle, a dud, or a bore because you are a submissive. I have yet to meet a female dominant who was looking for a completely vacant human being, a person with no ideas or no thoughts.

There is a HUGE spectrum of possibilities between the guy who is about as fun as a sack of dead kittens and the brat, however. Personally, I find it irritating to be challenged by my submissive. When I'm irritated with someone, I do not feel like spending my time and energy doing things that they enjoy; I punish them by reducing my energy investment, not increasing it.

As for what "enhances" things...I'm quite happy and comfortable with servitude, and there's more than one emotion possible in bdsm; struggle produces some emotions, surrender produces others. Both are pleasurable in the right context, and when done well, and when they are authentic. Personally, I find that being too prescriptive about how masochists receive pain or submissives receive domination is a little alienating to my partners, and also encourages them to be dishonest and inauthentic, which is a huge intimacy-killer.

This is why I've always found it stupid and strange to hear stories about women who didn't want to play with someone who "enjoyed it too much".



subinchico -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 1:55:09 AM)

Fascinating thread of information.
1. I’m a hyperactive mouthy sub brat, only powerful drugs shut me up. Even gagged and wrapped in duct tape I am loud.
2. I had no idea saying, “its up to you goddess”, be a turn off, but it makes sense!
Thanks




GoddessTeaze -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 1:59:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inglevine

I find that I often feel rather different than most Dominant women, in that I very much prefer "bratty" subs. I definitely want to be in control and for him to ultimately do what I say, but the fight and struggle is half the fun. I like when subs are cheeky or when they try and disobey. It gives me a reason to punish them. ;) And I like to know that my sub has a will and desires of his own. I have no interest in playing with someone who, to me, feels like a robot I can control by pushing buttons. I need to feel that there's a real person there.

Any other Dommes feel this way?

No I don't. I've had one rebelsub once,
for a Very short time.
gawd... It was so ferking anoying. I don't feel the need
to ferkin fight anyone. D/s is a choise,
and something to enjoy to the fullest.

And not to b faught over.

Simply Not My cuppa T.

I wish you enough.

GoddezzT`



Andalusite -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 8:38:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subinchico
2. I had no idea saying, “its up to you goddess”, be a turn off, but it makes sense!

Oh, that would irritate me to no end! I've had a few guys spam me with that kind of thing. Especially since I am a Christian, getting called "goddess" feels sacriligious, and completely disrespectful of my beliefs. I don't need someone to share them, but I sure don't want them doing things like that that actively make me uncomfortable.

My submissive, who I dated for 5 years, sometimes did the "You decide" bit, so I'd usually say something along the lines of, "I asked for your opinion," or else give him 2 or 3 choices and tell him to pick one.

I don't care for bratty submissives, but resistance play can be fun!




sodsta -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 10:01:37 AM)

This may be cheating somewhat, since I know you and we've just spent a couple of hours discussing this very thing, but I think the main difference here between you and a lot of the other women commenting is that you are more of a sexual dominant than a "lifestyle" dominant, and what you are referring to as "fight" is really more "resistance play during a scene".

Scenario 1: You have a sub tied up securely and you start to whip him. Instead of him taking the whipping like a "good boy", you'd prefer he struggle and try to escape and growl and swear and get angry and just generally try to resist?

Scenario 2: You tell a sub to do a task and he smirks and says "make me", and that gives you reason to punish him, which is what you enjoy. And that's the important thing here. YOU enjoy it, and you WANT him to react that way, so you are not being manipulated. There's no real power struggle going on and he's not fighting your Dominance because it's what YOU want.

You've said to me before that you would describe yourself as a Reaction Top with Domme-ish qualities, rather than "A Domme", which is perfectly fine. Labels can be bothersome, sometimes, but they can also be handy little things. :)

You want a sub or bottom to push your emotional and sadistic buttons (in this case, by being cocky or cheeky or  "bratty") in the same way you want to be able to push his emotional and masochistic ones. There's nothing wrong with that - in fact, as you obviously know by now, I think it's pretty hot. ;)

Enjoy it. :D



Inglevine -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 10:36:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta

This may be cheating somewhat, since I know you and we've just spent a couple of hours discussing this very thing, but I think the main difference here between you and a lot of the other women commenting is that you are more of a sexual dominant than a "lifestyle" dominant, and what you are referring to as "fight" is really more "resistance play during a scene".

Scenario 1: You have a sub tied up securely and you start to whip him. Instead of him taking the whipping like a "good boy", you'd prefer he struggle and try to escape and growl and swear and get angry and just generally try to resist?

Scenario 2: You tell a sub to do a task and he smirks and says "make me", and that gives you reason to punish him, which is what you enjoy. And that's the important thing here. YOU enjoy it, and you WANT him to react that way, so you are not being manipulated. There's no real power struggle going on and he's not fighting your Dominance because it's what YOU want.

You've said to me before that you would describe yourself as a Reaction Top with Domme-ish qualities, rather than "A Domme", which is perfectly fine. Labels can be bothersome, sometimes, but they can also be handy little things. :)

You want a sub or bottom to push your emotional and sadistic buttons (in this case, by being cocky or cheeky or  "bratty") in the same way you want to be able to push his emotional and masochistic ones. There's nothing wrong with that - in fact, as you obviously know by now, I think it's pretty hot. ;)

Enjoy it. :D


Well, you are a total cheat, :P but you are also spot on. It's all part of playing for me and a bit of brattiness gives a scene more energy and gives me more to respond to. It encourages my creativity.



lobodomslavery -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 10:59:18 AM)

i am rebellious but maybe that s why im single. i dont know. or maybe because im in Dublin. still waiting for that first munch. hope it happens next week though they are considering pulling it because a lot of folk are going to the party, fetish gear instead .. i dont have fetish gear, just dipping my toes in the water
kevin



MissLaura1973 -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 1:55:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
I don't like resistance for the sake of resistance, or bad behavior just because it's attention-seeking.
I like authentic vulnerability, though. Not mindless submission.  I like difficult surrender, and seeing that sort of conflict that comes from submitting to things that are not necessarily enjoyable, but he does it for me and for my pleasure.  On some levels I can enjoy very strict, almost brave obedience, but not if it is robotic, more if it's dutiful and proud.  I like a wide variety of "styles" of submission but have my moods where I crave one thing over another - but I never like stoic, boring, robotic surrender, and I never like deliberate and obnoxious misbehaving for attention. 
Akasha


I completely agree - that vulnerability - the willingness of the slave to stretch and push themselves because it's what *I* want - that's an incredible thrill.

I don't like brats or smart asses or do-me's or subs along those lines - they just strike me as being annoying and demanding. Instead, I like intelligent, talented, mature beings who are comfortable with themselves and their self worth, who have chosen to give themselves to me for me to do with as I please.

A brat doesn't bring out my sadistic side (because it always feels to me like they're just trying to provoke a reaction, and I don't want to feel manipulated), just my disappointment and boredom.



MissLaura1973 -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 2:02:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subinchico
Fascinating thread of information.
2. I had no idea saying, “its up to you goddess”, be a turn off, but it makes sense!


The whole "Whatever you wish, Mistress" line really pisses me off. If I've asked a question, then it's because I want some input. I have no problem making decisions and telling a slave what to do - and if I'm taking the time to ask them for ideas, then that's what I want, not some mindless, totally by rote, crap. (Of course, the answer should also be phrased in a thoughtful, respectful manner, but that's for another thread.)

This is something I've struggled with with my sub of 11-years ... I ask a question and often that's his response: sometimes I want to scream at him - I *want* him to express an opinion. I've come to learn with him, though, that most of the time he doesn't have a preference and that his response is earnest. Still drives me crazy, though, and he's getting better about things ... after all these years.



MadameMarque -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 2:46:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inglevine

[clip]
And I like to know that my sub has a will and desires of his own. I have no interest in playing with someone who, to me, feels like a robot I can control by pushing buttons. I need to feel that there's a real person there.



I'm definitely drawn to passionate people with strong character, depth of feeling.  And I want to feel that passion naturally directed at me.  I want them to choose me, I want for their feelings to move them to me.

A person doesn't have to be sycophantic or weak or with no will of their own, in order to be submissive.  To the contrary, their feelings need to be very strong, very motivating.  They need to know what they want, and choose it, in each moment.

Almost every person who's been submissive to me, has been an alpha personality who was dominant in other relationships.  The one person who was a truly submissive personality, had strong feelings about me, and about being submissive.  He was passionate.  He knew his feelings.

I know some dominants who enjoy openly fighting for dominance, with a partner.  I'm sure there's some appeal to it that eludes me.

To me, someone hanging around, proposing to be submissive, but waiting for the dominant to take their bait, says, "convince me."  That is one thing I don't want to have to do.

"If his love is to be called perverse, then let it be so, for maybe love is too great to be normal, too intense to be sane."
 
- from a commentary on the film, Gekko no Sasayaki aka Moonlight Whispers, by myownpteidaho, at  http://imdb.com/title/tt0208178/usercomments



LPslittleclip -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 7:51:42 PM)

I'm more of a service oriented sub so making my M'Lady happy is very important. in the same vein she likes me to have my own ideas and thoughts. one of the main rules is that of open communication. any of U/us (poly family) can at any time voice a opinion or concern. now as far as play like grappling or something along those lines is a different kind of fight. as many on here have stated having a robot is not desired but one that has a mind of their own is preferred.



FelineFae -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 8:03:09 PM)

To disagree with another is no offence in our home, we all value the others' thoughts. For me to disobey would be another thing all together...
i try to please and obey, but have this streak of mischief that does make me test bounderies every now and again. i try to keep it in sheck on my own, though i get help at times...



taziesubguy -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/6/2009 9:36:42 PM)

The submission was always there in the sub and thats why he is there right before you as a sub..he has accepted your domination over him and thats why he is in the relationship with the domme.
I think some instance in his life must have triggered his acceptance of his submission before the women and if he is reminded of that after he puts a little fight he will always be reminded of his position in his life..
My dream revolves " to lose in a any kind of a tussle "  to the domme and been put in the right place .. that is in the corner or with head bowed before her.. but anyways even if she is not winning in the tussle she always has the veto power of 'shut up' or 'kneel before me' .. lol.. she is the boss always anyway..its not disobedience its just a play where she has all the strings..



rubberpet -> RE: How much fight do you like in your sub? (3/7/2009 2:55:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DVsFox

My Owner loves when I fight back and struggle during play.  She likes proving her physical dominance over me.  She loves for me to have my own thoughts and opinions outside of it.  However, she also expects that I remain respectful and obedient...just not mindlessly.  The dynamic is always firmly in place.

DV's Fox


I have a very similar dynamic with Mistress.  I'm a very feisty, opinionated subby who is quite the smart-ass brat at times.  It doesn't matter if it's during regular vanilla time or during playtime.  In a vanilla setting, I love to tease her very much like the young boy in school who'll pull the pigtails of a cute girl he likes and run away laughing, or by throwing mud at her to aggrivate her to the point she'll chase me down to hit me.  [:)]
 
During playtime, she knows that I'm much stronger than her and it's fun to "benchpress" her when she climbs on top of me or do an MMA defense posture so she can't do anything to me (except tickling, but that's against the rules...lol), but since she knows I have two bad shoulders, she'll shift her position a little and manage to minimize my physical strength over her without hurting my shoulders.  It's not all about strength...it's leverage.  [;)]  Once I'm pinned under her after a good fight, she usually gets aggressive and clinches her hand around my throat and gives me "THE LOOK" that makes me melt and submit to her.  [:)]
 
No matter how playful and feisty I may be or get, I still remember my place.  There is definitely a line between being playful and being disrespectful.  I'm blessed to be owned by a domme I can be my true self with.  She loves the fact that while I'm extremely obedient to her and revel in her dominance over me, I'm not a mindless subby that's so submissive that he can't function on his own or can't get out of his own way.  She loves the fact that I not only have my own opinions and views, but also loves the fact that I have the brains and balls to express them.  She also digs the fact that she can overpower someone with just a look who is strong enough physically to drive her through a wall.  [;)]



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