RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/8/2009 11:58:01 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

The wealthy don't pay enough in taxes relative to the benefits they derive from not only using more government services, but being able to accumulate wealth at a much fsater rate than the middle class due to unequal, regressive treatment of taxes on labor vs. Cap gains taxes.

Here's a good essay on why progressive taxation is more fair:
http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=125&subsecID=163&contentID=1398

You've got it. The difference between the tax on 1040 income of salary, wages and tips and on ONE year capital gains...is immoral.

The capital gains tax is NOT long term in just ONE year and after certain extraordinary returns should be taxed...extraordinarily. After millions in a year say...50%. Make investors be investors not speculators. Start-ups get 15% inside 2 years...3 or 4 years....zero tax a pass.

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/9/2009 7:19:46 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

I have my DD214. How about you? Or are you like Rush? If memory serves, he got out of serving because he had a boil on his ass. Or Darth Cheney? "I had better things to do, bitches."
Actually, I served with the 82nd Airborne from 1974 - 1978, making sergeant in 2 of those years. I was in during the time when they weren't holding parades every time the soldiers came home. I did get spit on though while proudly wearing the uniform through airports...

Well, I'm happy for you. This researcher here
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1276799/posts
sez:
"
In 1998 sociologist and Vietnam veteran Jerry Lembcke published "The Spitting Image: Myth, Media and the Legacy of Viet Nam." He recounts a study of 495 news stories on returning veterans published from 1965 to 1971. That study shows only a handful (32) of instances were presented as in any way antagonistic to the soldiers. There were no instances of spitting on soldiers; what spitting was reported was done by citizens expressing displeasure with protesters.

Opinion polls of the time show no animosity between soldiers and opponents of the war. Only 3 percent of returning soldiers recounted any unfriendly experiences upon their return.

So records from that era offer no support for the spitting stories. Lembcke's research does show that similar spitting rumors arose in Germany after World War I and in France after its Indochina war. One of the persistent markers of urban legends is the re-emergence of certain themes across time and space.

There is also a common-sense method for debunking this urban legend. One frequent test is the story's plausibility: how likely is it that the incident could have happened as described? Do we really believe that a "dirty hippie" would spit upon a fit and trained soldier? If such a confrontation had occurred, would that combat-hardened soldier have just ignored the insult? Would there not be pictures, arrest reports, a trial record or a coroner's report after such an event? Years of research have produced no such records."

I don't know why anyone would be waiting around airports to spit on soldiers in 74 and 75 anyway. The last troops in Nam came home in 73.
March 29, 1973 - The last remaining American troops withdraw from Vietnam as President Nixon declares "the day we have all worked and prayed for has finally come."
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/vietnam/index-1969.html

I'm sure you won't mind if I don't believe you about that spitting thing, will you?
Frankly hippie...given that much of your information seems to come from liberal, basically anti-military sources, I can understand why you don't believe me or any other soldier it happened to. And to be honest, I don't give a good damn whether you believe me or not...I was the one it happened to and I believe me. As for a fit soldier letting an "unfit" hippie spit on him without turning it into a confrontation, I was taught/trained to remember who I was and what I represented when I was out in the public. It happened once, I was on my way back to N. Carolina, they were a group and I was alone. The war may have been over for a couple of years but that certainly didn't stop the anti-military venom of many.

Reports from liberal reporters or veterans who turned anti-war or the dominant liberal media mean little to me. I have a tendency to read things that are not virulently on one side or the other and I also have a tendency to listen to those who might have a slight bias but who have an open mind.

Since you cannot seem to come up with any sources other than these, why bother continuing this? I am stubborn but not so stubborn that I will continue to bang my head against a brick wall.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 3/9/2009 7:51:28 AM >

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/9/2009 10:44:43 AM

samboct

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"I'm sure you won't mind if I don't believe you about that spitting thing, will you?

Frankly hippie...given that much of your information seems to come from liberal, basically anti-military sources, I can understand why you don't believe me or any other soldier it happened to. And to be honest, I don't give a good damn whether you believe me or not...I was the one it happened to and I believe me. As for a fit soldier letting an "unfit" hippie spit on him without turning it into a confrontation, I was taught/trained to remember who I was and what I represented when I was out in the public. It happened once, I was on my way back to N. Carolina, they were a group and I was alone. The war may have been over for a couple of years but that certainly didn't stop the anti-military venom of many. "

CD-

While I may be a liberal, I still find the story you relate painful. A soldier who served his/her country honorably should not have to apologize and should be thanked for their efforts- regardless of political beliefs or the wars outcome. And I recall the time as well, although I was not an adult. I remember my teachers being frightened of being drafted and sent to Viet Nam and of my classmates who lost their elder brothers and the schoolwide moments of silence for them.

I don't know how prevalent spitting on Viet Nam veterans was, but I'm not sure that Lembcke proceeded in the correct fashion to figure it out. It's really not the thing that people are going to keep records of, so the best way to determine it would be to take 1000 vets who remained in uniform during a fixed time frame - say 73-75 and see how many report being spat upon. But I also wonder if some vets who were insulted in this fashion would choose to deny that the event occurred as being too shameful- which means that some in depth interviews are called for too.

One other analogy- at football games, fans often used to shower the losing team with bottles and cans. (Hence leading to the demand for beer in non-glass containers.) I wonder how many football players would admit to getting struck by a flying bottle? How many fans would admit throwing one? There can be systemic underreporting of lots of events.

Sam

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/9/2009 2:52:35 PM

Raiikun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

. If it takes spending 800 billion for a shot in the arm, that's what it takes.

If that actually worked I'd be all for it too.

But can you blame anyone for being skeptical that a mess caused by borrowing and spending too much can be fixed by more borrowing and spending?

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/9/2009 9:11:57 PM

submittous

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In the US over the last 30 years wealth has moved significantly to the folks at the top, literally a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper 5 % ... Combine that with the reality that we are not collecting enough taxes to pay our bills. So, how can the wealthy be paying too much in taxes?

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/10/2009 12:58:23 AM

VanessaChaland

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Very well stated. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

In the US over the last 30 years wealth has moved significantly to the folks at the top, literally a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper 5 % ... Combine that with the reality that we are not collecting enough taxes to pay our bills. So, how can the wealthy be paying too much in taxes?

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/10/2009 2:32:05 AM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

In the US over the last 30 years wealth has moved significantly to the folks at the top, literally a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper 5 % ... Combine that with the reality that we are not collecting enough taxes to pay our bills. So, how can the wealthy be paying too much in taxes?

A logical conundrum, yes?

Good to see you here. -Schlu

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/12/2009 1:32:03 AM

Sir Daddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The tax cuts were a temporary measure following 9/11...Some have already expired, some fell off Jan,1 09..The remainder will expire by 2011.

Bush's tax cuts were established before 9/11. But you're right in that they were not permanent..

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RE: The wealthy pay too much in taxes - 3/12/2009 1:46:07 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

(But for the current economy), no one making that kind of money feels like the tax changes will hurt them.

No one making 250K is going offshore. Trust me.

The tax changes on 250K will affect them...not at all.

$2,000,000....most assuredly.

I was only using that as a benchmark because it is where the tax increase will kick in.

My argument was directed at the wealthiest who supposedly support our economy, or so I'm told.

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