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RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 4:09:57 PM

CatdeMedici

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IMHO if you would have continued knowing he was in discomfort, that borders on the self centered abuse we read about here all the time. It doesn't matter, if the sub is in distress, there is a responsibility to find out why---I would have done the same thing. However, Lashra, is sounds like there is more to this if this happens everytime, seems someone isn't coming clean, and it isn't you.

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Post #: 21

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 4:35:32 PM

thetammyjo

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I think stopping play when you see the signs of physical or emotional distress is what a good dominant or top does.

That he could not or would not communicate more directly has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him. It will need to be an issue he is willing and able to work on himself.

Being a perfectionist is a difficult road to try and follow but it is something only that person can realize and work on. It has zero to do with SM or Ds or anyone else for that matter.

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(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 22

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 4:57:36 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hi Maam, I would rather be with someone who can see I am in distress and stops, regardless of me saying I am fine. As Peon said men are apt to fool themselves into the everything is fine routine. I am sure deep down your submissive knows you did the right thing, and is thankful for it.

And another thing ! I cant be the only submissive who gets carried away to the extent I am over focussed, even to my own detriment. I think anyone with a deep need to please would recognise this trait, even if it is a fault/hinderence. Add a need to please with a fear of failure and its no wonder we refuse to admit anything is wrong..... ( Bad trait I know )

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 23

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 6:02:18 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

My question is this, should I have not stopped the play and kept on going regardless of what his body language was saying? His point was I should not have stopped the play to ask him anything, I should have waited until after. I saw he was in distress and did what I thought was best. What do you think?

That's a touchy one, from the point of view of someone who gets into the "I always fuck everything up" mindset. I agree that stopping the play to make sure he was ok but I'm not sure if everything should have stopped.

Of course you know him better than me but all that I can think is how miserable and wretched I feel when my paranoia or other mental issues interfers with play or other things we want to do. I feel as though I've screwed everything up and we'll never play again - despite knowing logically that all is well and we will. I would prefer that Valyraen tone things down, perhaps even to a *gasp* vanilla (

) level and we simply make love with him murmuring that I'm his Kitten in my ear.

While everyone is quite right that you needed to make sure he was physically safe, stopping everything might make him more nervous that he'll screw things up again next time. I fully agree with better safe than sorry but it's just something to think about - take it for what it's worth. You know him and how he thinks far, far, far better than I.

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Post #: 24

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 7:29:29 PM

Lashra

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quote:

I think anyone with a deep need to please would recognise this trait, even if it is a fault/hinderence. Add a need to please with a fear of failure and its no wonder we refuse to admit anything is wrong..... ( Bad trait I know )

Politesub this is exactly what he is going through, you hit it right on the head. It was so bad that he was throwing up in the bathroom, still saying he was fine. I've never seen a sub hit such a high anxiety level, hence my asking the question here on the forum.

On a good note he seems better tonight after apologizing profusely. I've got work to do with him on his communication and handling stress/anxiety. I do not want him to upset himself into the hospital or a medical condition.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 25

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 7:34:37 PM

Lashra

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quote:

Of course you know him better than me but all that I can think is how miserable and wretched I feel when my paranoia or other mental issues interfers with play or other things we want to do. I feel as though I've screwed everything up and we'll never play again - despite knowing logically that all is well and we will. I would prefer that Valyraen tone things down, perhaps even to a *gasp* vanilla () level and we simply make love with him murmuring that I'm his Kitten in my ear.

Aqua, this was my plan when it happened. I had hoped that we would talk for a few moments, that I could calm him down and we could resume playing on some level. But his frustration level shot through the roof and his first impulse was to put his clothes on and go for a walk. (but he had makeup on and its not a good idea for a guy to walk around like that so I said no).

He admitted tonight that he really needs to work on his communication skills. We did an exercise on them about 3 years ago, but I can see we need to work on them some more.
Thank you for the advice, it is appreciated.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 26

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 7:45:59 PM

ShaktiSama

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Ditto everyone who has said you did the right thing. You can't ever ignore body language that indicates real distress rather than the right kind of pain or pleasure. BDSM play is potentially dangerous in its own right, but more importantly there are many health crisis events that can cause abdominal pain, including heart attacks, gall bladder attacks, hernias and a ruptured appendix. Some of these can be fatal if not treated promptly, so--never be shy about pulling the Kink Bus over to the side of the road if someone has a tummy ache.

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Post #: 27

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 7:56:41 PM

malloves69

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Ms Lashra ...you did the right thing i belive ...your concern for your sub male is very admirable indeed

lucky man he is to have you as his better half

have fun ..mal

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Post #: 28

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/8/2009 8:06:16 PM

tazzygirl

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Lashra

just a suggestion. high anxiety and vomiting... potential for ulcers if they havent already developed. possibly have him see his dr?

tazzy

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Post #: 29

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 1:46:30 AM

DarkSteven

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I agree with everyone else. However, I would suggest that you try to make it clear to him that when you ask a question, you expect a direct, honest answer. I would not have been as patient as you were regarding questioning him.

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Post #: 30

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 6:09:10 AM

MissMorrigan

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Steven, what you have suggested is a tricky one. It's often taken an entire life of reactance to situations and their triggers that results in the behaviour indicated in Lashra's initial post from the submissive and it's not a behavioural trait that's corrected overnight. Regardless of the D/s dynamic between them, when a submissive finds themselves in the midst of a situation that will trigger their panic they aren't able, at that time, to articulate their problem b/c they are still 'reacting'. It will take a lot of time, patience and consistency from both persons to retrain the submissive. With any kind of anxiety disorder, the person afflicted is already submissive to the emotions deeply rooted in their subconscious which overwhelm them when they encounter a situation that acts as a trigger - it would well be that the submissive is predisposed genetically and that in itself brings about a whole new set of issues. Retraining and reconditioning mental patterns doesn't work with a simple, "You will answer me directly and honestly" as they have already pushed themselves into an emotional corner and are reacting, so any kind of direct questioning (when they've spent many years avoiding situations that trigger them) at that point is likely to be countered with anger, which is exactly what occurred.

Edited to add: The only correct way for the Top/Dominant to behave in that situation is to discontinue play, but not in a way that suggests that its the submissive's reactions that have caused play to stop, as this will just reinforce a poor self image which upholds the notion that they really aren't good enough as a person, or to be there serving their Top/Dominant. In that situation, I will stop any kind of impact at that time and replace with something soothing which can still have the submissive/bottom serving but in a way which will help them 'come down', it's up to each individual Top/Dominant to decide (based on their submissive/bottom's likes/personality) which. The time for talking about the issue is not for during that time, nor immediately afterwards, but when no play has occurred.

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 3/9/2009 6:20:31 AM >

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Post #: 31

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 9:16:53 AM

MsFlutter

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Good call - I would have done it exactly the same way.

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Post #: 32

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 9:18:55 AM

Scotty306134

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Sounds like someone I know when She was pregnant! Maybe He's pregnant.....anyway, You did the right thing. It sounds like He needs to open up more and discuss mattrs.

(in reply to MissLaura1973)

Post #: 33

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 12:45:12 PM

MistressSassy66

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One more comment from the peanut gallery,I think you did the right thing.

I have in the past and will in the future to continue stopping "play" when
the slave/submissive in obvious discomfort.

janet tries to get away with saying he's fine.I know he'll try to push on not wanting to be a disappointment.

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(in reply to Scotty306134)

Post #: 34

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 1:38:22 PM

Lashra

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Joined: 2/9/2006
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quote:

However, I would suggest that you try to make it clear to him that when you ask a question, you expect a direct, honest answer. I would not have been as patient as you were regarding questioning him.

I did make this clear to him after he had calmed down a bit. I am not a beat around the bush kind of gal, when I want an answer, I want it. But he has been under a lot of stress lately with his father passing away last month and other family problems. So I cut him some slack and I know his stress level is very high lately.

I know he felt horrible at the idea of disappointing me and I guess for me this really showed how deeply he wants to please me. I've never had a guy vomit because he was afraid of ruining something for me. Wierd but I find something romantic in that lol.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 35

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 3:10:08 PM

subinchico

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Im in agreement with Aquatic sub, yes you did the write thing in stopping. In contrast, I love to be tortured when I'm already sick or weakened some other way (although stomach aches/nausea are powerful turn offs).

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

That's a touchy one, from the point of view of someone who gets into the "I always fuck everything up" mindset. I agree that stopping the play to make sure he was ok but I'm not sure if everything should have stopped.

Of course you know him better than me but all that I can think is how miserable and wretched I feel when my paranoia or other mental issues interfers with play or other things we want to do. I feel as though I've screwed everything up and we'll never play again - despite knowing logically that all is well and we will. I would prefer that Valyraen tone things down, perhaps even to a *gasp* vanilla () level and we simply make love with him murmuring that I'm his Kitten in my ear.

While everyone is quite right that you needed to make sure he was physically safe, stopping everything might make him more nervous that he'll screw things up again next time. I fully agree with better safe than sorry but it's just something to think about - take it for what it's worth. You know him and how he thinks far, far, far better than I.

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I Enjoy being under the shoes of beautiful, powerful females!!

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 36

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 3:13:52 PM

DavanKael

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Hi, Lashra----
I think that your stopping and checking in with him is evidence of caring about him and, thus, a good choice.
Best wishes for you and yours,
Davan

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Post #: 37

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 3:17:16 PM

HeavansKeeper

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subinchico

Im in agreement with Aquatic sub, yes you did the write thing in stopping. In contrast, I love to be tortured when I'm already sick or weakened some other way (although stomach aches/nausea are powerful turn offs).

Really? You don't get that blurry eyed head rush, which makes for a throbbing headache whenever you move? Or sneezes so violent and common it feels like you've broken your clavicles? What about that phase you get into when you have to sit indian style on the bed and stare at the sock drawer, because if you glance at the trash can you're going to vomit? Or that tooth chattering deep freeze from a high fever?

I understand the allure of "kick me when I'm down" but "kick me when I'm sick"... No thanks, not even in fantasy. I'm not calling you a liar, just saying that we are on opposite ends of the spectrum in that regard.

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Post #: 38

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 4:04:08 PM

subinchico

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Joined: 1/6/2008
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Lol, staring at the sock drawer! Classic! And I'm with you on the Gastrointestinal aches, I'm done! But sneezing, chills, high fevers, I say if she wants to be that sadistic, bring it on!

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

quote:

ORIGINAL: subinchico

Im in agreement with Aquatic sub, yes you did the write thing in stopping. In contrast, I love to be tortured when I'm already sick or weakened some other way (although stomach aches/nausea are powerful turn offs).

Really? You don't get that blurry eyed head rush, which makes for a throbbing headache whenever you move? Or sneezes so violent and common it feels like you've broken your clavicles? What about that phase you get into when you have to sit indian style on the bed and stare at the sock drawer, because if you glance at the trash can you're going to vomit? Or that tooth chattering deep freeze from a high fever?

I understand the allure of "kick me when I'm down" but "kick me when I'm sick"... No thanks, not even in fantasy. I'm not calling you a liar, just saying that we are on opposite ends of the spectrum in that regard.

_____________________________

I Enjoy being under the shoes of beautiful, powerful females!!

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 39

RE: It's when you asked not what you said.. - 3/9/2009 4:12:52 PM

Lockit

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When someone's immune system is under attack, I am not going to be taxing it more with bruises or heavy anything. It is time for some homemade chicken soup, submissive nuturing and loving up so that he can be well and ready to play far more than when he was feeling poorly. I don't find anything pleasent, enjoyable or kinky about hittin a man when he is down. That's like kicking a puppy. I think he can find better ways to challenge himself on what he can take and do and I have far better ways for him to roar with me. He can't very well be beastly the way I like if he is sickly.

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Post #: 40

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