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Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 5:45:38 AM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		I need some sage advise Ladies and gentlemen.

My Mentor says that it's fairly common problem that once a dominant becomes more emotionally attached to his/her sub, you just don't want to beat them anymore.  This is apparently even more common in Fem Dom/male sub situations.  I'm falling into this little trap myself.

Just FYI - my past D/s experiences have been pretty much a series of one night stands.  The one pet that I kept for an extended period was not a pain slut, so he didn't really count in this situation.  I've never become emotionally attached to my pain sluts before.  I was always quite happy to treat them as a piece of meat, unleash and have ad it then basically toss them for another.  Sounds bad... but it was fun and that was all any of them ever wanted was one night of fun and move on.

My sweet Westy is my first pain slut who stuck around.  While at first, I was amazed at what a little Tank he is, I no longer seem to have that urge to unwind on his oh-so-willing hide.  Maybe it was the time we spent playing with the Rimba (Tens) that turned the corner from our play time being more flat out beatings to more sexual.  Maybe it's the fact that we spend so much time together as 'just friends'.  Sometimes it seems we are more like 'friends with kinky benefits' than D/s partners. 

We are attending Frolicon in April.  West has mentioned (though not recently) how much he wanted to try out the public dungeon and be trussed up on the St. Andrew's Cross and beaten.  I do want to do that as I have a big old 'exhibitionist' streak.  I also want to keep him happy and satisfied... I'm just not sure that I can 'unleash the touch of evil' on cue when he is my target.  I never know for sure how much he takes just because he knows that I enjoy it and how much he actually wants, needs and enjoys for his own sake.  He does so much just to please me.  I'm never sure exactly where the line is.

My mentor suggested putting a hood over his head to help me objectify him more so that he returns to being a random piece of meat instead of being my sweet pup.

I know this is something that I need to discuss at length with West and that ultimantly, it's just between the two of us.  I'm just wondering how those of you (both sides of the kneel) have dealt with the 'problem' of a Domme/pain slut relationship that just keeps sliding more into the realm of pampered pet and kinky sex toy?


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the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 6:08:33 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		So it may be that things will wax and wane a bit and that the urge for sadism with Westy will return to you.  You could try a bunch of different things I suppose...but why not let the relationship be what it wants to be rather than trying to force an outcome?  My very inexperienced 2c...

Edited:  Misspelled Westy...sorry! 

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 3/10/2009 7:07:03 AM >

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 7:46:00 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I, too, have heard of this problem from tops and doms but honestly I've never experienced it myself.

In fact, the closer and more attached to someone I get the more I want to do SM and other things with them.

Why? Because I can trust them to accept all those dark parts of me not just the fun stuff but the unpleasant stuff, not just the kink stuff but the whole person stuff.

I'm not sure why I feel this way as opposed to what you and others report. I do know other tops though who also feel as I do so it must just be a reflection of the individual.

The only real problem I see is if you are each on a different page in regards to what your relationship should be like. When that happens it's often a set-up for failure.


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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 9:17:33 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

The similar challenge I have found is once that a certain level of intimacy is reached (intimate, romantic love - partnership, a true couple), the sense of predatory lust is hard to reclaim.   My most primal (and more rewarding) femdom urges come from a sense of chase on some level, because of the build up in my head.  I like the process of surrender when it comes a little bit at a time. I can do this again and again with the same guy, but once you reach a level of true love, intimacy, romantic one-on-one connection, the reality is that -- he's available.   24.7. And that's a wonderful thing. However, it does not leave MUCH room for seduction.

It's a bit of a double edge sword. I have been far more frustrated and cranky in my life because a man was UNavailable at the time I needed submission; so now, I get it all the time. What it means is that there's a bit of an edge gone. Unless I work to manufacture that edge.

I have found that a change of scenery can help (trips).  Or, having a cool-off period where play is offlimits. It's funny how "denial" can be such an aphrodisiac (sound familiar, boys?).  I found out quite on accident, having an athletic boytoy, that when his body is off limits (recovering from injury) usually a couple days into it, I feel I can't LIVE without beating him - but I just have to wait.  He plays some sports that tend to have fairly regular, minor injuries and I have to keep my hands off for a bit when that happens, and that usually really kickstarts my femdom side.  I think because it requires me to get into my own head as I wait for the right time, and that time in my head - to plan, imagine, fantasize - just creates the build.

Versus the status quo - which is - wake up, feel like dominating, ok, let's go. 

My own little brain is my best femdom tool for developing lust, ideas, intense desires. My femdom urges are more mindblowing when they come after a period of reflection and planning.  Spice it up with a little bit of practical denial so I have to wait for it, and it's a great mix.  Not more than a few days though, or I get very, very cranky.

Akasha


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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 9:33:19 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I do think men are somewhat more easily able to comparmentalise their feelings, Ms S, and that sometimes this can be a good thing.  Can you not practise doing the same?  So, for instance, be an evil sadist when beating him - but, the moment the beating stops, switch to loving and hugging mode.  I bet you Westie would say the same.

But if you really can't do that - then, maybe, it's time to branch out.  Might you have some ideas that you've never tried?  Maybe a bit of equipment that you've not used so far?  Now's the time to give that a try, I'd say. 

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 9:52:27 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		MsS. Part of your responsiblity is to nurture your D/s relationship ... You and your westie came together for specific reasons and keeping those reasons fore in your mind will help you maintain that level of unique intimacy that began your relationship. If you wanted friends with kinky benefits.. finding that is not difficult .. however finding the rare treasure of a boy who needs what you have to offer and visa versus well that is like hitting the lottery.. I have alway found that maintaining good solid boundries that support that D/s through ritual and protocol helps. The relationship is never allowed to relax into less that what you intended it to be. Also never feel that taking what you need is more than he can and will give.. sometimes (while of course staying with physical health guidelines..) the submissive going beyond what is clearly enjoyable allows you to bond tighter.. the after care can be a entirely different kind of high for them .. and the Dom space in knowing he is there for you a sort of emotionally charged release to say the least.. You must take so that he can give..   SD

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Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 10:04:21 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Hiya Starlett.  Good seeing you again.

Yes, I would agree with your Mentor.  It is common among Tops.  I'm not going to go so far as to say that it comes up for female tops more than male tops.  I think that's based more on the concept that females are more emotional than males and that's too much of a generalization for Me.

The problem does stem from the fact that you have established an emotional attachment.  You are growing to care about him and are placing a higher value on him than some random bottom that you can use to get your pain jollies from.  Whether that stems from a greater friendship, a type of love, or a deeper D/s dynamic, the issue is that you have a greater vested interest than you're used to experiencing.  That means you have an inner conflict between wanting to play, but now how can you hurt this person you care about?

First things first.  Talk to him and put the direct question out of how much is he participating in pain play for the enjoyment of the sensations and how much of it he is doing just to please you.  Insist that he tell you his honest opinion.  This isn't for him.  This is for you.  If he is a masochist, he's going to tell you so.  You may have heard it before, but this will give you the opportunity to reaffirm that pain triggers something in him that most people don't experience.  Let him tell you how much he loves getting to sub space.  Give him the chance to express that it trips his pleasure switch.

The next thing you do is relearn something you already know and take it to the next level.  Listen carefully.  Masochists like pain.  To them, the pain you are inflicting when you play *is* an expression of love.  They crave it, much like so called 'normal' people crave hugs.  Why do you think they call it the "kiss of the whip?"  If he's a maso, he wants, needs, and desires it.

Other things that can help.  Looking at pictures of past scenes of bruises or welts.  (Just watch his face light up!)  Conversations about how exciting certain play times are.  Allow yourself to get caught up in good memories of your own past top space.  Remind yourself of the excitement of the scenes you've shared.

Before I forget this part.  In the meantime, don't stop playing.  It sounds terrible, but use the fake it until you make it method.  That way, your needs and his needs are still getting met.  Even if you don't play as often or as intensely as usual.

Then, at some point, it's going to happen.  Something's going to spark inside of you, or there's going to be some kind of inspiration.  I can't tell you what that thing is or how long it's going to take to happen.  It's like a transition.  You get a different level of acceptance and understanding.  It stops being just that you love the things you do when playing with him.  It also becomes loving him through play.  It's very special and it's going to deepen your bond, whatever type of bond that you have.  It's like getting past that last major hurdle (there will be small ones from time to time) to really understanding, inside, that you're wired differently and so is he, and there's no need for guilt, regret, or remorse for wanting to do these things together.

I know that obstacle looks pretty big right now, but getting past it is amazing.  The places you're going to be able to go and the things you are going to be able to do are going to astound you.  The best part is, your boy is going right along with you.  For a sadist and a masochist, that is a love.

Good luck, Hon.  You write Me anytime that you need to along the way.






_____________________________

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 11:18:10 AM   
DVsFox


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		I'd say that my Owner wants to be more sadistic with me now than she did in the beginning because we're emotionally attached.  She's a sadist, she enjoys hurting me.  I'm a masochist, I enjoy getting it.  I love it.  It's like being kissed, or being hug, or being help.  It brings me intimately closer to her.  It's one of the many ways we express our love for one another.

The closer we've gotten, the more intense it's gotten.  That's just how it works with us.

DV's Fox

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 11:34:38 AM   
Calimistress


Posts: 8
Joined: 3/3/2008
Status: offline 		Make him pick up rocks for 4hr. if he is a bad boy!

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 11:54:29 AM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I'm with thetammyjo,the closer I get the more I want to beat him,brand him,cut him....

For the exact same reason,I can trust him.

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In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 6:19:42 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Starlett, sometimes the play fades because real life gets in the way too, whether that's just being busy or whether it's stress. Might be useful to think about that aspect too.

Otherwise, I agree a lot with LadyPact. Talk it out very directly with him. Sounds like he's all fired up and keen anyway, but do get a clearer sense in Your mind about whether he's taking it for You alone or for the both of you! Revisit past scenes, have him tell You his favourite ones, or the ones that he brings back to mind when he fantasises. It will give You a much better idea of where he is at. Then it's a matter of where You are at. Doesn't hurt to tell him You are finding it more difficult to hurt him because You care for him. Review safewords and get his assurance that if it's over the top, he really will safeword, or at least call "yellow" to indicate he's reaching his max. You need to feel safe in hurting him.

Before Frolicon, I would suggest holding off for a few days. Perhaps put him in sexual chastity too if that floats the boat for You and he. Doesn't have to be a device, just hands off! Build the tension for You and he, so the urge to do something rises. Then when You get there, and there's that cross just waiting for him ... I suspect it will be that much easier to let loose on him and for both of you to have a good time!

Good luck!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 7:00:50 PM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
Status: offline 		Hi MsStarlett,

Personally, the more attached I am the more I want to hurt him. With my first sub I remember having an overwhelming need to bring him to tears and I was totally head over heals, gushy in love with that man.  But those emotions also triggered my sadistic needs, I was also sure of the depth of his masochisism.

I can be much more sadistic with someone I care for than a casual playmate. Some of this is because if I do bring about tears or very strong emotions that connection with them moves to a nurturing mode that I can't go to with someone I am not connected too.

I would suggest talking to him about how you are feeling.  You may find out that his masochistic needs are stronger than you think or you may find that the depth of his pleasure in taking pain for you fills a strong need in him.  Also, the more a masochist plays the more they need to achieve the same feelings.

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 7:02:30 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		Perhaps realigning perspective might help. If you see giving pain as cold, realigning perspective to see that giving pain is not necessarily cold might help. I think that in any relationship there are acts that serve as positive relationship expressions: holding hands, hugging, etc. Perhaps seeing pain as a positive relationship expression (something in which you engage with someone in whom you have interest) might help.

Pain play can come from different parts of one's pscyhe; it can come from the SM component, it can come from the affectionate component, and it can come from the spiritual component. It seems currently your play comes from only the SM component (part of you that likes mental and physical SM) whereas your relationship has begun to draw more from the affectionate component (part of you that likes to give and receive affection). Is it possible to bring pain into the affectionate component, and see if there is gratification to be had via the spiritual component?

By bringing it into the affectionate component I mean that pain is seen as an alternate form of expressing affection (realigning perspective) and as a service. Service (him enduring it to please you) aligns well with the affectionate component. Are you able to feel good about him taking pain as a service, as you might when he does other forms of service, by focusing on what he is doing towards service? Would it help to bring sensuality into the pain play (rounds of blows separated by sensual stroking of the skin, putting ice in your mouth and then kissing the skin)?

By spiritual component I mean that for some people pain play represents an exchange of energy, which brings more intimacy to the play. I am not sure if I can describe how to engage in this level of interaction--it involves being present, enthusiastic, and focused on and aware of each others energy.

With time you might conclude that pain play simply does not align with your affectionate and spiritual components, which is fair enough. In that event, you will have the question about what then to do: (1) how important is it to him and is it tolerable enough for you for sake of your relationship, (2) if it is not tolerable and it is important to him, is there a way for him to find fulfillment elsewhere, or (3) will it become a case of incompatibility.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 7:17:57 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Wish I could say something helpful, but to me the Beatin' is already something I do because I'm kindly disposed toward someone. My own sadistic urges wax and wane like any other aspect of my sexuality, but I don't worry about whether there is more or less pain-per-hour now than when we first met. I always assume that if his need for the Hurtin' isn't being met, he'll make that clear.




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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/10/2009 7:36:10 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		<QR>

There was a time when I started going light on my pet, because I loved her. I didn't want to hurt her. Over time, I realized that going light on her WAS hurting her, and that settled the situation for me.

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/11/2009 3:39:07 AM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Ladies & Gents.  I had a wonderful time fantasizing about getting my boy up on the cross yesterday.  Considering that West only gets to visit me about once a month, and even then we are rarely alone, we do a great deal of 'tease & denial', for both of us.  This last visit was great fun for us as friends.  Going shopping at the 'rubber dick stores'.  Going out for a very nice dinner.  Piling up on the couch watching DVDs. 

Our actual BDSM time was marred by lack of proper equipment.  He was uncomfortable in not so good ways.  (pardon me if I try to give a few but not all details to get the point across)  We've had a long running desire to chain him bent over a chair.  We finally got time, space and a straight backed chair.  Fun time! 

Well... the back of the chair was to high and this had him stretched in a very uncomfortable way that was actually restricting blood flow to his hands.  Not good.  If I did not have this connection with the boy, I would have laughed that off with "Who gives a shit if you're comfortable or not?"  Now?  He tells me his hands are cold so we pick up the chair and move him in front of the heater.  I want my boy comfy while I beat him.  I couldn't get into hurting him 'in the good way' because he was to uncomfortable 'in a bad way'.  Isn't that the most rediculouse thing you've ever heard?  Then I couldn't get to his 'goodies' because of the bad possitioning kept his thighs and butt cheeks closed.  I finally gave up and said "Let's move."  When I turned around to put my toys away, he had already unclipped himself and was standing up adjusting his cuffs and rubbing the circulation back into his hands.  I snapped at him for not waiting and being able to get out alone.  He whimpered "I was being helpful." in that dreadfully cute way that he does. 

It's just that now I know and care about wheither he is enjoying himself or not.  He wasn't, so I couldn't get into a good "Dom Space".  Yes, it exists.  We were having much more fun - or at least I was - playing with the clothes pins and some paddling.  Which for me is just 'foreplay'.  It's fun and gets me in a giggly happy place, but not over the line into the zone.


_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/11/2009 6:11:17 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		It's odd to think of performing BDSM acts with someone whose comfort or enjoyment doesn't matter to me at all. Not that I am incapable of being a "brute" when I toss a boy against the wall--just that there's a reason that I pick a nice flat wall with no protrusions, not one with a doorknob or a shelf that's going to jab out his kidney.

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-- Robert A. Heinlein

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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/11/2009 8:36:32 AM   
aidan


Posts: 904
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett
If I did not have this connection with the boy, I would have laughed that off with "Who gives a shit if you're comfortable or not?"  Now?  He tells me his hands are cold so we pick up the chair and move him in front of the heater.  I want my boy comfy while I beat him.  I couldn't get into hurting him 'in the good way' because he was to uncomfortable 'in a bad way'.  Isn't that the most rediculouse thing you've ever heard?


No, in fact, it's not. It's exactly what I expect from a person I care about and trust enough to put my emotional and physical safety in their hands for sexual gratification.

If a woman I was submitting said "Who gives a shit?" when I said I was having blood circulation problems while in bondage, that would at least be a concerned talk afterwards, and depending on how receptive I thought she would be to that, I just might not let her touch me again.

No offense to you Starlett, but I cannot for the life of me understand why it's absurd that you actually care about the safety and fulfillment of your boy, and why that doesn't jibe with playing with him. I've never known a Domme who had this issue...or at least, I never let them tie me up.


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RE: Don't want to beat him anymore? - 3/11/2009 5:38:25 PM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
Status: offline 		Well, I am going to add to my response since I thought you meant you were having a hard time enjoying inflicting the good pain.  If I was with someone whether it was a casual playmate or someone I cared for I would never continue play that was effecting circulation.  I don't see caring about someone's comfort/wellbeing as a bad thing. I don't see it as not dominant or not sadistic, I see it as human.

I can't picture telling someone "who gives a shit?" in reference to something that is a real problem.  Now I have been known to tell them I didn't care if they liked it, I was having a good time and that was what really mattered.  But not in response to a real issue.

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Profile   Post #: 19
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