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WMD Update - 8/15/2004 11:49:15 AM   
basiasubrosa


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*Warning* Though i will try to refrain from opnions and interpretations in this post, it contains potentially controversial, and by no means complete, information.

Someone pointed out in another thread that WMD had been discovered in Iraq, but this was not reported on very much. Most mainstream media reported on the discovery of sarin shells in May and then in June/July, but few if any provided follow ups. This really irked me (the media coverage, not the someone who kindly brought it up ), and i don't like to be accused of ignoring unpleasant information, so i've been trying to do some long distance investigation. Here is basically a summary of what i've come up with.


First of all, the search engine on Department of Defense (DoD) website is absolutely terrible. Ugh! Ugh! Ugh! Or else it just really really does not like me, or my IP Address, because it does not process my searches, so i had to wade through entry by entry in the press/news/etc. archives for this info. Ugh! (Alright, i admit, that was an opinion, but i just had to get that out of my system.... Ugh!)

Secondly, i don't really know what media are 'liberal' or 'conservative' or 'right' or 'left'. From what i can tell from some offhanded googling is that nearly no media that i know of have published follow up reports on the discovered materials. Fox News might have given this more prominent coverage, but they did not provide solid information, either.

My primary source here is the DoD. As stated above, i waded through most of the archived press releases, news briefs and interviews from May, June and July. The CIA doesn't appear to have much info to offer the public yet. Links and specifics available, if anyone is interested.

5/17 Gen. Kimmitt says that "The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found." He believes it was probably left over from pre-1991 Gulf War times, and that the person who rigged the shell was NOT aware that it contained the chemicals that create sarin, because it was rigged in a way that renders chemical weapons ineffective.

5/26 Gen. Rodriguez confirms that the shell was pre-1991. When questioned whether the age or scantiness of the materials makes the discovery less significant, Mr. Di Rita makes historical note of how Iraq used sarin before...

6/24 An anonymous journalist says that "the head of the Iraq Survey Group, Charlie Duelfer, told Fox today that his team has found a dozen artillery shells and rockets that confirmed contained sarin or mustard gas." (I could not find any previous mention of this on DoD or CIA.) Again, journalist asks whether aged materials can actually be used as WMD; again Mr. Di Rita notes how historically, Iraq did not come forth with all weapons, and "we know just through historical example that these groups have a thirst for weapons of mass destruction."

6/30 For what i could find, the first DoD record of Sec. Rumsfeld talking about the Polish troops' discovery of "something like 16 or 17 – warheads that contained sarin and mustard gas." (Transcript of interview with NewsRadio 600) He goes on to talk about how there might be a whole lot more of very lethal sarin. (The host does not ask about the big 'age' question.)

7/1 The Polish discoveries are brought up in a general DoD briefing. Mr. Di Rita talks about some confusion about who discovered how many of what between the Poles and the Iraqi Survey Group.


I could not find any further information provided by the DoD on the 10-12 or 16-17 weapons containing sarin and/or mustard gas, discovered by the Poles or the ISG. Nor could i find any DoD records of nuclear missile discoveries. In one of the press briefs a journalist asked why the DoD wasn't making a bigger deal of the (potentially)WMD discoveries, but received no reply.

Again, this is a very limited little attempt to find out what was/is going on. Additions, corrections, etc. more than welcome.

Tha-bda-bda-at's all folks! Need to go to bed now..... <stumbles off bleary eyed>
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RE: WMD Update - 8/18/2004 4:29:22 PM   
sub4hire


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Thank you basiasubrosa for your research on WMD's. I did'nt comment on the prior comment because I had not done sufficient research myself. Other than the day to day stuff.
I was very much under the impression the serin was also from the first gulf war.

That is exactly why it has'nt made the news all over the country. Because there were no "new" wmd's found in Iraq. All stuff left over from the first war.

(in reply to basiasubrosa)
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RE: WMD Update - 8/25/2004 9:35:22 AM   
cheeba0228


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read the other thread again and follow the links i posted there were new weapons found in 2003 and 2004 that were produced post Desert Shield. Your research wasnt inaccurate just incomplete.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!


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RE: WMD Update - 8/25/2004 10:49:49 AM   
basiasubrosa


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Gloria- You are very welcome. Glad to be of service, naturally.

Cheeba- (<whispers> I did say in the beginning that this is all incomplete... ) I went back and looked at the post you made with lots of links on page 8 of the last thread, and could not find any authoritative reports on the two major discoveries which Thanatosian pointed out. Sorry if i missed anything. Would you mind directing me to specific sources? (As i am just returned from being stranded by a typhoon while on field assignment, and have a caravan load of work to catch up on, i'm not quite ready to wade through two years' worth of DoD transcripts right now.... )


[opinion]
I will not comment on anything that was possibly discovered or announced before May 2004, since i only researched from then on.

Overall, my respect for the military generals has greatly increased, while my regard for politicians is struggling to survive at best. When you read or listen through a transcript, the generals tend to answer questions directly and factually, whereas the politicians often go on not-quite-to-the-point rhetorical demonstrations/evasions which may or may not quite distort factual evidence. According to the generals, at least, the weapons discovered in May and June/July were aged and did not pose a serious threat. They carefully explained the facts which led them to this assessment. In the mouths of certain politicians whom i will refrain from naming, these same discoveries were inflated into large looming menaces without any factual refutation of the generals' reports. Then, whoosh, no more mention at all. This pattern can be observed rather blatantly when many other operations or events are called to question as well.

Speaking only of May-July, i must say that i am very disappointed in 1) the irresponsibile rhetoric that certain people in the DoD have engaged in, and 2) the media's negligence in calling the vacuous rhetoric to facts, especially when facts were provided in the very same press conference by other people.
[/opinion]

Of course, this opinion is only valid until overthrown or adjusted by new information. (And i usually do genuinely like to be proven wrong.)

(in reply to basiasubrosa)
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RE: WMD Update - 8/25/2004 11:57:51 AM   
knees2you


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Joined: 3/15/2004
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This time in Irag I believe any Chemical weapons that might have been stored or barried there had been disposed of or taken out of the Country. Fox news is the most reliable news. I didn't say they where 100%, but that they are close~

Sincerely, eyesofAslave

quote:

"It's funny how we can still see, Yet we are still blind~"

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RE: WMD Update - 8/26/2004 5:22:37 AM   
cheeba0228


Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
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I agree with you on these points which i believe ou emphasised and stated quite well. Being a Technical person I'll restate it bluntly.

Generals Talk=Facts, evidence, empirical,plan,decisive

Politicians Talk=Theory, past occurances, doubletalk, guesses, story telling

I'll let you dig through my previous posts on the matter as I really dont wish to start the dig for evidence again. IMHO the thread and discussion has about run its course, and I dont want to get in that heated of a debate again.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!


(in reply to basiasubrosa)
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