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Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 6:02:08 AM

WickedoftheNook

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/2/2009
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I have a private dungeon within the house here and have been approached by a local BDSM group, asking if they may use this for their private parties.....
I wish to know where my liability would be if someone was injuried or worst within my home.
They suggested signing a release form, but I heard that this would not be vaild since I had knowledge of what type of activity my play area was being used for. I do not know no one within this group but the owners and though no drinking or drugs are done within my walls....I have no idea what these people do before arriving to scene....
any advice would be appreciated.....

Post #: 1

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 6:18:42 AM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
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Ask a kink aware lawyer in your area if you are seriously considering it.

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Post #: 2

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 6:23:30 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
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I agree. It's worth fifty or a hundred bucks for a serious consultation with someone you know has credentials. If you don't want to spend that in this economy, tell the club owners to throw it down, and all three of you can go together, and they will get advice as to their own liability as organizers of the event, and you get advice as owner of the playspace.

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Post #: 3

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 6:42:46 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

a local BDSM group, asking if they may use this for their private parties.....
I wish to know where my liability would be if someone was injured or worst within my home.

As a 'host' you expose yourself to all liability for any injury suffered while on your property. It doesn't matter if you are having a St. Patrick's Day party, a tea party, or a dungeon party. It's not the activity, it's the locale. You can get sued if your tea burns someone, or if someone driving home drunk from your St. Patrick party kills a carload of nuns. The concept of a 'release form' is a good idea, but can be easily pierced if it can be claimed that the injured signatory to the release didn't have enough information or a clear understanding of the consequences of the document. However, the worst part is even if you have the 'release' sanctioned and approved by the US Supreme Court, defending it costs as much as paying the claim, and isn't recoverable without incurring additional litigation expense, with no guarantee of prevailing since proving frivolous litigation involves attorneys and a legal system who doesn't believe any litigation is 'frivolous'. Depending on the type of coverage you have, your insurance may pay the legal expense under your home owners/renters liability coverage.

However, read the coverage throughly. If anyone paid to go to your event, even if you didn't receive any monetary compensation, or you did it for a 'charity' event; the insurance company can claim the event was outside the intended coverage and vacate their defense obligation. Private social events are part of standard coverage. Running a event where people pay to get in; is considered a 'commercial' use and is not.

Forget the 'lifestyle' aspect of the event and consider a recent case in SoCal. A local group wanted to have a fund raiser for, Make a Wish', a GREAT charity institution. They organized a car wash at a local business. During the event a hose got tangled in the wheel of one of the cars when it pulled away. It whiplashed into a person standing, waiting for his car to be washed flipping him on his back and injuring him. The person sued, of course. Since the business was being used for purposes outside the insurance policy terms all defendants, including the organizers, business owner, and event coordinator are exposed to the litigation cost plus any subsequent 'award'.

quote:

any advice would be appreciated.....

Don't - especially if, as you say, you don't know anyone coming, other than the organizers.

Nice idea; its very good to want to open your house to allow others to enjoy its facilities. However, realized that in doing so, you open yourself to potential problems. Make your decision based upon consideration of the 'worst case'. Most of the time, nothing happens; but when it does being surprised shouldn't happen.

Oh yeah, if you do host the event - HAVE FUN!

(in reply to WickedoftheNook)

Post #: 4

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 7:14:38 AM

VeryNastyDom

Posts: 403
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline

Are you going to get paid for this? Most, if not all, homeowner's policies will cover you if somebody is accidentally injured on your property, but those policies generally exclude business activities. So if you invite a few kinky friends over for some play time, you are probably good on the accidentaly injuries, but if you charge a fee then you probably aren't. The only way to know is to read your policy.

The other issue is strict liability for injuries that are not accidental. An accidental injury is something like a slip on an icy sidewalk. However, if you knowingly let your dungeon be used for kinky play and one of the players gets out of control and hurts another during a scene, that is a foreseeable event and may not be regarded as accidental. You will be strictly liable for those injuries, release or no release. Just as you cannot consent to your own murder, most courts will not recognize consent to assault and battery.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 5

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 7:22:06 AM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
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there is also the question of if is business is allowed in your zoning (assuming someone is paying money to someone) and the good old prostitution laws.

Again, talk to a lawyer in your area to see what the facts are in your state and county.

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Post #: 6

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 7:39:19 AM

WickedoftheNook

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/2/2009
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to help with answers to this....I was not looking to charge for this party......
thanks for the wonderful response to this question and directions to finding the answers......

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 7

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 7:46:56 AM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
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If someone is collecting money or (in some cases) ANY form of compensation, it can get dicey on the brothel thing. I am only going by new articles from the past which is why I keep saying

Ask a kink aware lawyer in your area.

_____________________________

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If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

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Post #: 8

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 7:56:17 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

As a side note, while accidents DO happen, they are very very rare. Assholes however seem to be a bit more common so there you go.

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 9

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 7:57:23 AM

Lynnxz

Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline

Ooo, make sure you do not have nosy neighbors.

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Post #: 10

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 8:11:35 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
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From: Savannah, GA
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sound proofing....

just sayin

oh yeah.. and parking.. think about parking. Most people get pissy if strangers are taking up all the available parking in the neighborhood.

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 3/16/2009 8:12:29 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 9:34:09 AM

akisha

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Joined: 6/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedoftheNook

I do not know no one within this group but the owners and though no drinking or drugs are done within my walls....I have no idea what these people do before arriving to scene....
any advice would be appreciated.....

My only question here is ... Do you really want to let a bunch of strangers in your house?

For me my home is my sanctuary, my safe place.

Personally I would not want a bunch of people i didn't know anything about other then the fact that they were kinky, in my home. Who's to say one of them isn't a freak and would come back some other time uninvited.

Just saying..... anything is possible.

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Post #: 12

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 9:39:06 AM

subangi

Posts: 544
Joined: 5/11/2008
Status: offline

If my kids ask the neighbors if they can play in there yard, and i let them, and if they were injurred then i could sue my neighbors....same applies with a play party. I had that checked out when i had a dungeon.

(in reply to WickedoftheNook)

Post #: 13

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 10:43:04 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedoftheNook

I have a private dungeon within the house here and have been approached by a local BDSM group, asking if they may use this for their private parties.....
I wish to know where my liability would be if someone was injuried or worst within my home.
They suggested signing a release form, but I heard that this would not be vaild since I had knowledge of what type of activity my play area was being used for. I do not know no one within this group but the owners and though no drinking or drugs are done within my walls....I have no idea what these people do before arriving to scene....
any advice would be appreciated.....
[/quot

Wicked,

What have you to gai, besides a ton of concerns.......... stay away from it!

CP

(in reply to WickedoftheNook)

Post #: 14

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 10:47:42 AM

Pyrmidon

Posts: 42
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

I would have to agree...Stay far, far away from this situation. The potential for grief for you is almost overwhelming, IMHO

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 15

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 12:22:43 PM

EvilInnocent

Posts: 5
Joined: 3/12/2009
From: Jacksonville
Status: offline

When I had my Sir he always posted a sign "Play at your own risk." Then made them sign a release for. Also make it clear that if you even think they are on something they have to leave. But since you dont know these people maybe you should have a Meet -n- greet before you host a party.

Humbly
Evil

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Post #: 16

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 3:49:14 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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In addition to the excellent advice already given, if you are paid for use of your dungeon you are now operating an adult business. Are you zoned for this? Better be or expect the town to get involved in closing you down and loading you with major fines which you will be liable for, not the group.

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Post #: 17

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 4:00:44 PM

ExKat

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Joined: 8/25/2008
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To be honest, it's going to depend on the laws of your jurisdiction.

Things I do know:

Signing a release won't get you off the hook
Whether they pay or not (and people tend to at dungeon parties), you could still be liable
You might be liable not just for negligent injuries but also times when the sub feels his/her limits were breached and they charge the dom with sexual assault or rape or assault, since you facilitated the event (and in some jurisdictions, someone cannot consent to BDSM)

And, really, if someone is injured at your play party, they'll likely sue you anyways.

< Message edited by ExKat -- 3/16/2009 4:04:03 PM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 4:07:39 PM

allthatjaz

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If you are not going to charge the promoter anything, what are you actually getting out of it?
I don't know about American law but from what I have read in the above it sounds very similar to our own.
A signed relief form means absolutely nothing in a court of law when it comes to consensual abuse because consensual abuse is against the law.
The owner of the property is solely responsible for any accident.
You can not be insured for an illegal act.

Apart from that what control will you have?
Are people going to turn up in your neighborhood all dressed up in fet clothes? Are they going to be out on the street making idiots of themselves? are they going to care that this is your turf and you have to live with your new earned reputation after the night?

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Post #: 19

RE: Legal question..... - 3/16/2009 4:20:30 PM

WickedoftheNook

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/2/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

If you are not going to charge the promoter anything, what are you actually getting out of it?
interaction with a new local fetish group.....I had NEVER thought of charging for the usage of the play room

Apart from that what control will you have?
It is My house.....I call the shots....that is the control I have..
Are people going to turn up in your neighborhood all dressed up in fet clothes?
I lived on 40 acres of land.....guess I am my own neighborhood here, no problems with neighbors unless you are talking about one of the horses and no problem at all with parking..
Are they going to be out on the street making idiots of themselves? who knows what another person will do and for some reason I seem to miss the point or purpose of your questions?
are they going to care that this is your turf and you have to live with your new earned reputation after the night? smiles in the most wicked way.....they would add very llittle to my reputation unless you consider maybe some new play mates.....

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 20

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