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Greed - 3/17/2009 2:59:53 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I believe that greed falls into the category of an addiction, actually a disease, and there is no cure, nor is one being sought. Imagine walking into a shrink's office and telling him "I got twenty million in the bank, even in these hard times, and the other day I screwed the paper boy out of ten bucks".

As I see it greed meets the accepted clinical definition of an addiction. However the money the sufferers wield actually shields them from any attmept at rehabilitation. It is seen as 'the guy is doing well so it is not a problem'. Well that doesn't make it not a problem, and I see it as one of the the biggest problems facing this society as we know it.

And this problem, going untreated, like any other problem that is unaddressed will cause bigger problems. For example take the numerous pogroms in Europe over time. Jews were targeted because they were successful. Well alot them them did well because over the years they learned rather than played. Chicanery and all that is not automatically involved, but society will have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak, so the results are not good nor effective when it comes to such knee jerk reactions.

Dante described hell as too much too late. We are letting it get too late by not somehow even thinking about addressing this problem. If we line up all the politicians one day and shoot them, is Ron Paul going to be standing aside Blago ?

And unlike homosexuals or kinksters, they do attempt to enlist or infect others. Look at how many government agencies scramble to spend their budget before the fiscal year ends, lest they lose part of their funding. That is but the tip of the iceberg.

A capitalist society or a republic, and actually even socialism even communism would be a beatiful thing and would work fine if not for greed. However this problem is as ubiquitous as the air we breathe. I am one to always look for the root cause of a problem, and I see this as the big one. Take every post on this board, every website reference and whatever anyone brings in here, what is the main bitch ? In almost all cases it boils down to pure greed and nothing else.

Greed is pamdemic, unrecognized and not one attempt is made (to my knowledge) to address it, which is obvious to many to be the biggest problem we face in this day and age.

How long can we go on like this ? I don't think much longer.

T
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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 3:02:29 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
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Status: offline 		You nailed it right there, Term. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I believe that greed falls into the category of an addiction, actually a disease, and there is no cure, nor is one being sought. Imagine walking into a shrink's office and telling him "I got twenty million in the bank, even in these hard times, and the other day I screwed the paper boy out of ten bucks".


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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 3:13:56 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		Term, I think you're overthinking this.

Greed is just a fundamental human weakness, and I don't see any reason to believe it's any worse today than it was a hundred years ago or a thousand years ago or ten thousand years ago. The moment the first man stood upright, he started looking around to see who the closest person was he could screw out of something. 90% of all human misery is the direct result of greed, and I agree with you that in some form or other  it will be the death of the human race. But you're never going to eliminate it, any more than you're going to get people to give up walking upright, because no matter what you do, there will always be people that the minute you give them a little bit of power or a little bit of an advantage over other people, they're going to start trying to figure out some way to use that advantage to get something extra out of the people over whom they have the power. Always. As long as this species infests this planet. It will never, ever change. 

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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 3:16:06 PM   
rulemylife


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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 5:12:32 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		if I tie a link of sausages around a german sheppard- will he eat them?

thats what greed is.

but the riddle of 2009 is the mind wasted masses.   if we were an intelligent people- we would know enough to not make the mistakes of the past.  But heck- we are the best and the brightest.  We have good universities, corporate personhood,  and we are governed by consent.

the clock is however ticking.

we are experiencing the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the world.

everything has changed.   But you would hardly know it.

Mom thinks she can flip her condo.  My best friend just bought a new car.  Jenny is whining over section 8 inspection.

Ignorance is bliss.     "We had no way of knowing".   


yeah-      who is "WE".


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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 9:13:37 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Greed is a direct result of scarcity. Remove scarcity from the equation, and greed vanishes along with it.

Example? Try selling the air we all breathe. You can't. There's no market for it, as it is abundant and not scarce.

Technology is our only possible salvation from greed and other problems caused by scarcity.

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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 9:38:28 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Greed is a direct result of scarcity. Remove scarcity from the equation, and greed vanishes along with it.

Example? Try selling the air we all breathe. You can't. There's no market for it, as it is abundant and not scarce.

Technology is our only possible salvation from greed and other problems caused by scarcity.


I couldn't disagree more. How many billions of dollars did Bernie Madoff already have when he stole 50 billion from his investors? He wasn't suffering from any scarcity; at least, no scarcity of money. Greed is a fundamental human characteristic. Greedy people will take whatever they can get their hands on, no matter how much they already have.


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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 10:21:40 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Greed is learned as a result of exposure to constant scarcity within the environment, and is not innate as you suggest.


< Message edited by subfever -- 3/17/2009 10:22:53 PM >

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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 11:12:52 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Greed is learned as a result of exposure to constant scarcity within the environment, and is not innate as you suggest.



Well, with all due respect, I strongly disagree with that. Tell ya what, dig up some cites to support your argument, and I'll do the same for mine! We'll get all pedantic on everybody!


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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 11:22:06 PM   
Juliannadelion


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I'll only reply to this if you agree to send a tribute to my paypal account.




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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 11:28:18 PM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		Greed is wanting more than you already have. I dont see this as a bad thing by itself
for example, I Want a house, a more reliable car and more money at the end of each week, is that greed? absolutely, however it is also why I am continuing my education so I can earn more, and taking on side projects to save up the cash from for a down payment on a house.

Greed can be a positive motivator, what screws it up is when people act in morally ambiguous ways, or when they fail to look at long term consequences.... The CEO that bilked his company for all that money, wanting the money wasnt bad, deciding how to obtain it was the issue... if he had instead made some wise investments or something like that and got the money the legal way then it would have been a success story, and instead of being a criminal he would have been giving lectures at college graduation ceremonies.

Feelings are not bad in and of themselves, it is how people deal with those feelings that causes the issue.

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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 11:32:43 PM   
girlygurl


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From: in the palms of His hands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Feelings are not bad in and of themselves, it is how people deal with those feelings that causes the issue.


Asher, This is just one of the many reasons why I lubs you. You are a wise man.

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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 11:37:51 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Greed is wanting more than you already have. I dont see this as a bad thing by itself
for example, I Want a house, a more reliable car and more money at the end of each week, is that greed? absolutely, however it is also why I am continuing my education so I can earn more, and taking on side projects to save up the cash from for a down payment on a house.


Absolutely, and that's why we'll never eliminate it. The simple truth is, greed confers an evolutionary advantage upon the greedy - animals that are driven to accumulate more than they need are more likely to survive in tough times. Greed is in our DNA, and the reason we're here posting is because our direct ancestors were more greedy than the competition.


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 11:53:08 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		I think attempting to eliminate base human emotions is impossible. Instead of stating the obvious, that greed caused it, the question should be how can we limit the destructive effects of greed, while harnessing it's positive motivating force.

A friend of mine used to call me mister obvious, because I always answered things by stating the obvious, which for some reason we like to ignore. What I see as obvious, is that greed while it might be the motivator, the reason they were so destructive was because they were allowed to be so large. As in AIG, Lehman, Bank of America, Citi, GM. Those companies and some others, are the ones that posed systemic risk, however, they are not the only ones run by greed.

So, the obvious solution in a nut shell, is to break down the oligarchies that control most of any industry. It doesn't just exist in Finance, it exists in everything, and with the push to even greater globalization, the companies that exist, will be every larger in scope, control, and will also offer ever greater systemic risk.

So, Mister Obvious, says, don't focus on eliminating greed, that is like trying to eliminate masturbation in boys. Not going to happen, but what we could do is make a hard finish line, that says once you are X big you must break apart. What the dollar amount of X would be would up for debate. But a GM surely would not be in existance, in its present form, a Bank of America would be 10 banks, an AIG would 30 seperate companies. ETC.....

How to enforce that in other countries is a question, tarrifs I suppose, against companies exceeding the company size limit, maybe. who knows, but I do know the problem is one of size, greed is only a problem, when the person has the power to destroy you if you don't give him what he wants. No company should be that large as to force that demand upon a nation.

As is we do the opposite we encourage megacorps to move in, while siphoning money from the small businesses to fund the grants. Wal-mart sometimes gets special tax rates even. It's simply stupid, to encourage the concentration of wealth beyond a reasonable level.

I think reasonable would be like 20-30 billion tops for any company ever. That will get the job done.



< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 3/17/2009 11:54:43 PM >

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RE: Greed - 3/17/2009 11:56:03 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		In our society it is about not just having incentives it is about actually designing and placing those incentives. With respect to financial incentives we have two motivations or incentives at work...competition and greed. They both completely took over the investment banking and financial insurance world.

Dante thought pride the first sin because it is in how you feel you appear to the world that would make you proud. Whats the easiest way to insure glowing adulation and the pride you seek ? Win the competition and make more money than the other guy.

So for Dante, greed was down the list, a by-product of vanity...pride, it being the worst. Wall street among others in the corporate world have demonstrated unmitigated, undiluted, unrepentant...greed. To me...when you take a good look at all of the 1000's of principals in business in this country...aren't they almost all guilty ?

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RE: Greed - 3/18/2009 8:10:45 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Again the English language fails us. I was not talking about greed as it relates to a squirrell saving up nuts for the winter, I am talking for example about my buddy who is close to getting the axe around here. He pulls in great money tax free. However he has now said that (this is a construction company) he would like to start everyone at a buck less per hour this year.(in a recession !) 

I guess greed is like cholesterol, good greed is indeed a component of ambition, but bad greed is like a cancer. Greed does indeed impel success in many, but I think something happens along the way. It is when the reward becomes more important than the game - or something like that.

T

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RE: Greed - 3/18/2009 9:12:06 AM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
if I tie a link of sausages around a german sheppard- will he eat them?

Before or after he has put the sheep in the pen? Can the same be said of French farmers? Does the Sheppard have full use of his arms and legs and is his neck double jointed? To answer this question I'm going to need some more background information.
 
Why are you strangling dogs with sausages anyway can't you just feed them the conventional way in a bowl? They will still eat what is given to them thus proving survival instinct not greed.
 

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/18/2009 9:13:17 AM >

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