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What defines a gift? - 3/17/2009 7:43:56 PM

JovialSadist

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/14/2009
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One of the topics I’d love to see expanded on is that of “a gift of submission”. I’m not sure how that particular phrase got started but it’s always seemed kind of silly to me (exhibiting my prejudice). I’ve never heard anyone say I have a gift of Dominance or Sadism to give you so what makes submission a gift?

When we find someone we want to partner with, I hope it is because they meet certain standards we look for in a person; so isn’t it more the need of someone to submit under the right circumstances? And if that is the case, how can it be classified as a gift and not the fulfillment of a persons needs? And just to take this a bit further, how would you respond if you read or heard someone say they offer the gifts of Dominance and Sadistic pleasures?

Please share your thoughts…

Post #: 1

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/17/2009 8:19:47 PM

WestBaySlave

Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
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This has been argued over quite recently in a "Gift of dominance" thread.

Many people in that thread felt that gift was an inappropriate term for something intangible. My feeling on that is that gifts aren't always referring to physical objects. ( When people describe someone as a "gifted writer" they don't usually mean that he or she has a lot of presents under the tree at Christmas... )

I personally feel that anyone who takes the time and effort to make a relationship work is giving me a gift on a number of levels. I do not see love, attention, consideration and the rest of it as anyone's duties. In fact, if someone loved me because they felt they had to, that's not a kind of love I'd want. To mean something to me, it has to be freely given - a gift.

Something I need in a relationship is dominance. Someone may be naturally dominant, but the fact they choose to dominate me makes that a gift to me. It's something I appreciate; that I'm grateful for; something I'm glad to receive but don't expect or demand.

The same thing might apply to some dominants' perspective on submission, but I can't give perspective on that; only on how I feel on my side of the coin.

As always, your - and many others - mileage may vary...

"And just to take this a bit further, how would you respond if you read or heard someone say they offer the gifts of Dominance and Sadistic pleasures?"

If it was the right man, I'd say "Thank you - it's just what I've always wanted."

< Message edited by WestBaySlave -- 3/17/2009 8:20:47 PM >

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 2

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/17/2009 8:25:25 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

how would you respond if you read or heard someone say they offer the gifts of Dominance and Sadistic pleasures?

I would ask just how gifted they were! And if they were gifted in the forms i prefer. If all points matched for me or for a friend, I would set up a meet.

Go ahead and laugh, but someone that is truly gifted at sadistic pleasure is a real treasure and someone worth knowing.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 3

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/17/2009 8:36:08 PM

Juliannadelion

Posts: 869
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: circusofthedamned
Status: offline

I believe WestBaySlave summed it up nicely. Those things are gifts - something giving freely, glady and happily accepted and appreciated but not necessarily demanded or expected.

My Master views my submission as a gift because, quiet honestly, it is something I choose to give to HIM. I could have chosen anyone else, but he was the one that I felt truly deserved and would know what to do with said 'gift'.

There are so many threads about how people get hung up on the wording of things. I am beginning to believe the labels are not as important as the feelings behind them.

I feel that what we have together is very special, a sacred bond between the two of us, and what my Master has to offer to me is just as much of a 'gift' as what I have to offer to him.

Does it really matter what it is labeled?

If you can find someone who loves you, for who you are, unconditionally, without regret or remorse. Who gets your kink, like you get theirs, consider yourself a lucky bastard and just be happy!

I never thought that I could be as happy as I am today, and I am so glad I was wrong! His love and devotion to me, his beautifully sadistic impulses to bleed and bruise me, just his smile, is a precious gift beyond measure.

I personally love gifts of this type!

_____________________________

Do you think this kind of love happens every day? ~ Asher

Bonded by blood, bound to His soul, soon to be his wife, owned by AsherDeLampyr

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 4

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/18/2009 4:59:45 AM

Caillin

Posts: 23
Joined: 2/4/2009
Status: offline

My submission is a gift I offer. I am not necessarily submissive by nature. So I choose to bring that side of myself out for him. To me, I could be perfectly happy in a vanilla relationship. Submission is something I enjoy, but not something I need in my life. So it is a gift.

(in reply to Juliannadelion)

Post #: 5

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/18/2009 5:17:55 AM

marysdream

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/31/2008
Status: offline

i believe that giving in any relationship is the most important aspect, so maybe this phrase has gained popularity due to some of the insensitive nature of folks to treat others badly in relationships.
ty
ree

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 6

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/18/2009 6:19:18 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

My opinion is a gift becomes a gift at the time it is accepted by the recipient.

Like beauty and art is subjective so is a gift. Recently was given tickets to an event I was not interested in and could not attend if I had been interested. The gift was not the tickets, the gift was not the event, the gift was the thoughtfulness of the giver, because that is what I accepted.

< Message edited by eyesopened -- 3/18/2009 7:07:58 AM >

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 7

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/18/2009 9:58:12 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Please enjoy my gift of links:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1180353/mpage_1/tm.htm
"Submission is a gift"

http://www.collarchat.com/m_725554/mpage_2/key_gift/tm.htm#725692
It ain't a gift

http://www.collarchat.com/m_539780/mpage_1/key_gift/tm.htm#539948
The gift of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_417971/mpage_2/key_gift/tm.htm#418195
submission is a gift!!!???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_285542/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#285542
If submission is a 'gift.' what's dominance?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_199872/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#199872
The Gift you give to yourself

http://www.collarchat.com/m_195087/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#195087
A gift???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_137582/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#137582
The Domly Gift

http://www.collarchat.com/m_135667/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#135667
Why do so many view submission as a gift?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_128811/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#128811
Do you consider your submission to someone a gift?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_118674/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#118674
Gift or not...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_109097/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#109097
The "gift" of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_26446/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#26446
On the gift of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_17487/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#17487
my thoughts on the "gift" of submission

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 8

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/18/2009 2:35:02 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

OP
I maintain that thinking of your submission as a gift can be very valuable for a newbie who may be caught up in sub frenzy. Yes it's an overly romantic phrase but some people like romance. Beyond that, if you think of yourself as a valuable gift there is a chance you will decide to be more careful who you entrust yourself to.

But basically, if you don't like any use of this phrase, then a sub who does like this is clearly much more romantic than you are and therefore has shown you early on that you are not compatible. And finding that out early, not later, is always a good thing.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 9

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/18/2009 5:34:44 PM

JovialSadist

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/14/2009
Status: offline

DesFIP wrote "But basically, if you don't like any use of this phrase, then a sub who does like this is clearly much more romantic than you are and therefore has shown you early on that you are not compatible. And finding that out early, not later, is always a good thing".

How short sighted... You feel you know me simply by this post??? Romantic? I appreciate every vile thing my slave allows me to do to her. I even send her flowers, leave little notes in places she is supposed to clean telling her I appreciate her, and reward her in ways that hold absolutely no meaning for me; simply because I am a romantic. But when you say you give something to someone, that you wouldn't even be with if they didn't meet your needs, it is not a gift. It is fulfilling your need to serve someone who fills your requirement list...

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 10

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/18/2009 6:19:12 PM

MidMichCowboy

Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

A gift is something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned.

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 11

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/18/2009 7:09:43 PM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

My opinion is a gift becomes a gift at the time it is accepted by the recipient...

That would be my thought, too.

Whether or not my dominance is a gift is not really my call to make.

It would be great if it worked out that way, but ultimately it's my partner's call to make, not mine.

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 12

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/19/2009 5:00:09 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WestBaySlave

This has been argued over quite recently in a "Gift of dominance" thread.

Many people in that thread felt that gift was an inappropriate term for something intangible. My feeling on that is that gifts aren't always referring to physical objects. ( When people describe someone as a "gifted writer" they don't usually mean that he or she has a lot of presents under the tree at Christmas... )

I personally feel that anyone who takes the time and effort to make a relationship work is giving me a gift on a number of levels. I do not see love, attention, consideration and the rest of it as anyone's duties. In fact, if someone loved me because they felt they had to, that's not a kind of love I'd want. To mean something to me, it has to be freely given - a gift.

Something I need in a relationship is dominance. Someone may be naturally dominant, but the fact they choose to dominate me makes that a gift to me. It's something I appreciate; that I'm grateful for; something I'm glad to receive but don't expect or demand.

The same thing might apply to some dominants' perspective on submission, but I can't give perspective on that; only on how I feel on my side of the coin.

As always, your - and many others - mileage may vary...

"And just to take this a bit further, how would you respond if you read or heard someone say they offer the gifts of Dominance and Sadistic pleasures?"

If it was the right man, I'd say "Thank you - it's just what I've always wanted."

quote:

My submission is a gift I offer. I am not necessarily submissive by nature. So I choose to bring that side of myself out for him. To me, I could be perfectly happy in a vanilla relationship. Submission is something I enjoy, but not something I need in my life. So it is a gift.

I quoted both of these in their entirety because both express something that I want to use.
I agree with WestBaySlave's thoughts, but I am also one of those who fall into the category of not being 'submissive' per se (as expressed by Caillin )
However, there are some men who just have a certain aura about them that I naturally and without thought become that of a submissive personality towards them. It's not something that I 'give' to them; it happens naturally and without any thinking on my part.

Because of this, I have always turned away from the popular idea that 'submission is a gift'. I lean more towards the side that says 'submission is inherent, a part of the personality and not something that can be called upon on a whim'

edited for spelling

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to WestBaySlave)

Post #: 13

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/19/2009 8:05:21 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JovialSadist

DesFIP wrote "But basically, if you don't like any use of this phrase, then a sub who does like this is clearly much more romantic than you are and therefore has shown you early on that you are not compatible. And finding that out early, not later, is always a good thing".

How short sighted... You feel you know me simply by this post??? Romantic? I appreciate every vile thing my slave allows me to do to her. I even send her flowers, leave little notes in places she is supposed to clean telling her I appreciate her, and reward her in ways that hold absolutely no meaning for me; simply because I am a romantic. But when you say you give something to someone, that you wouldn't even be with if they didn't meet your needs, it is not a gift. It is fulfilling your need to serve someone who fills your requirement list...

I have a problem with people who need to think that natural expressions of their desires are vile. I find that makes them uncomfortable with themselves that they need to set up such a juvenile dichotomy.

Regardless, if she thinks of herself as a valuable gift, and you don't - then you do not have a meeting of the minds and it would behoove you to reconsider compatibility.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 14

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/19/2009 8:31:12 AM

InTonguesslave

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline

not to be too nauseating - but actually what Sir has given me in terms of giving me the space and freedom to be who i am is enabling me to give my submission but not as a gift, im really not up myself enough to feel that.

i realised recently that i dont give people enough - just what i perceive to be sufficient to keep them happy - im learning to be more generous with myself because im begining to learn that people do value my friendship and when they say 'call' or 'come back soon' or whatever they actually mean it and arent just being polite.

if we're talking gifts then actually Sir is gifting me and by return i am slowly learning that what i give is wanted, not as a gift, but as something he chooses and wishes to receive.

so, no, i dont see it as a gift, i see it as giving each other the pleasure of each other, otherwise whats the point.

_____________________________

aka lally

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 15

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/19/2009 9:13:00 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

A gift is something given without expectation of reward, if you give and expect to receive, then what you give is not a gift.

So, with a submissive who gives the ''gift '' of submission, that indicates they will be submissive, have done to them, be treated etc in a such a way which is not enjoyable to them, a dominant who does treat a submissive in a way the sub likes, could be said as giving a gift in return for a gift.

But a gift is something given with no thoughts of reward, even praise is a reward, admiration , good feeling etc, so the use of the word 'gift' in D/s has no place in reality, it is a misused and misunderstood word, often a word uttered by romantics.

I give gifts to friends, things I make, but by my own understanding what I give is not a gift, because my return and I do seek it, is my friends being happy, but, it is good to give.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to InTonguesslave)

Post #: 16

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/19/2009 9:56:53 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

In my book, a gift is something given or I give freely with no strings attached and with no expectations. No more...No less.

Being Gifted is another kettle of fish. I am of the opinion that each and every one of us is gifted in some way or another, although such gifts may not be realised or used or even developed to their potential. Some folks are more gifted or have recognised and worked on their gift than others..

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 17

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/19/2009 12:01:52 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

What defines a gift?

the headspace and perceptions of the giver and receiver.

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 18

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/19/2009 1:03:12 PM

alianora

Posts: 38
Status: offline

It is my opinion that what defines a gift is the perception of those personally involved. Individuals vary; opinions vary; perceptions vary.

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 19

RE: What defines a gift? - 3/19/2009 2:09:50 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

All I can tell you is that if my slave were to tell me that they are giving me the gift of their submission, they had better be joking because I am going to be laughing.

Then I will give them the gift of a smack upside the head.

It's a relationship, not a birthday party.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to JovialSadist)

Post #: 20

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