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Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 9:02:10 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Stumbling through the cable channels the other day, it occurred to me that Miss Congeniality is actually a forced feminization tale.

The feminization is all about mobile bondage (high heels, long dresses) behavior modification (manners, mannerisms, etiquette) objectification (making one's look to appeal another) and conforming to a role with strict expectations and harsh punishments for failure (losing / humiliation.) In sum, its all about giving up control to achieve the ideal of "perfect womanhood." Its both perfectly alienating and erotic (to some, at least.)

Quotes:

Victor Melling (Michael Caine): The last time I saw a walk like that was in "Jurassic Park." (He's arguably the DOM.)

--------

Stan Fields: Miss Rhode Island, please describe your idea of a perfect date.

Cheryl "Rhode Island": That's a tough one. I would have to say April 25th. Because it's not too hot, not too cold, all you need is a light jacket.

------

Eric Matthews: What do you say, Hart?

Gracie Hart: No freakin' way.

Eric Matthews: Sparky, why not?

Gracie Hart: Cause I'm not gonna parade around in a swimsuit like some airhead bimbo that goes by the name, what Gracie Lou Freebush and all she wants is world peace?

Eric Matthews: It won't be like that. Come on, you're an important member of the undercover team.

Gracie Hart: Yeah, right, in a thong.

Eric Matthews: Operation "Thong" has commenced.

Gracie Hart: Why don't you stun-gun yourself?

Eric Matthews: I knew she'd like that one.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 3/18/2009 9:05:23 AM >
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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 9:05:54 AM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		IMO, most of the romantic comedies that follow a Cinderella type of story line are crash courses in what was once termed "charm school". 

_____________________________

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 9:14:07 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
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quote:

forced feminization


That's a stretch. I thought that applied to males, which Miss Congeniality is emphatically not.

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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 9:18:39 AM   
Vanityfull


Posts: 196
Joined: 3/6/2009
Status: offline 		right.. and prison movies are about bondage as the guys cant leave...

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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 9:25:58 AM   
OmegaG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

IMO, most of the romantic comedies that follow a Cinderella type of story line are crash courses in what was once termed "charm school". 


I think that the Cinderella story is supposed to be about mentors who help the princess find the inner beuty and bring it out for the world (and more importantly, the prince to see).

What I always see is that until you have the right clothes, the right accessories and the right mode of transportaion you will always be pining away wishing.  You must sell yourself in a societally acceptable way in order to find "true love" and happiness.

And Miss Congeniality is a message to feminists that it's OK to be independent and self sufficient, so long as you look like a lady while doing it.  It's not forced feminization as the OP is thinking because a feminized man is just as culturally unacceptable as a butch woman is.  It's about conformity.

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Sex without pain is like food without taste.
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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 9:30:06 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		There is no forced Fem as she is a female to start with--its more like coming of age or finding one's sense of center.

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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 9:34:30 AM   
HeavansKeeper


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Joined: 5/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

forced feminization


That's a stretch. I thought that applied to males, which Miss Congeniality is emphatically not.



Strictly speaking, women are immune to femalization (not exactly a word). Feminization means to make more feminine, a trait some women can certainly afford. Both genders can be "emasculated" which is really "un-masculinized"... It's a matter of separating the four terms: Male, female, masculine, feminine. This is an application of the "Sex vs. Gender" difference, which states sex is strictly an observable biological factor, while gender is a sociocultural cognitive schema about how one feels.

As for Vanityfull comment, the prison situation can be very bondage like... With a little forced-homosexuality for good measure =\. Cages are used commonly in bondage. I once saw a shaped cage, which forces a certain position, no doubt inspired by the iron maiden. Very sexy. Point is, everywhere else in English, metal bars with an animal trapped inside is called a cage. If I saw a submissive in full prison transport gear, I'd consider it bondage.

The point here is bigger. Perhaps just conversation and entertainment, but Cloudboy reminds us to keep an open mind on our terms, an open eye for when we see these "kinks" in society's chain.

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 9:34:38 AM   
feydeplume


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quote:

a feminized man is just as culturally unacceptable as a butch woman is. It's about conformity.


It DOES make a bit of a token effort to show just how bizarre those cultural norms are when taken to pageant extremes, but to my mind, she didn't get to shoot enough people or blow up enough stuff and the hair dressers and make-up people made it out alive.

In the version in MY head.... it's more like Die Hard meets Cloe and Prada Massacre.




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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 3:30:02 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

There is no forced Fem as she is a female to start with--its more like coming of age or finding one's sense of center.


This is where you are mistaken, IMO, because "feminization" is a set of assumptions and practices to train one toward a "feminine ideal," and the starting gender really doesn't have anything to do with it. Its just more acceptable and "natural" to foist such a process onto females and its shocking and jarring when applied to males.

I would say thanks to the feminist movement, the masculinization of females goes largely unnoticed. Women who wear pants, play sports, and depart from feminine roles largely go unnoticed because its both common and socially accepted. Put another way, a unisex world applies to women, but not to men.

In Miss Congeniality, though, the forced feminization process is just as jarring on Sandra Bullock as it would be on a man, because it represents a radical departure from her nature, values, and the way she has been raised. The only difference between her and men is that physically she is able to blend in, but the cultural societal assault on her person is the same --- as she must face objectification, bondage, bimboization, and subordination to her trainer and the training process.

As an aside, Sandy Martin, who plays Selma Green on Big Love, definitely looks better in a suit than she does in a dress. The only "disturbing" thing is how cloaked her gender becomes when she does it. Hence Selma is actually stigmatized for looking too much like a man (passing), whereas cross dressers are typically stigmatized for not passing and being readily identified as men.

Women in the "wrong clothing" are fine, long as they are readily identifiable as women.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 3/18/2009 3:38:25 PM >

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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 3:53:33 PM   
Vanityfull


Posts: 196
Joined: 3/6/2009
Status: offline 		its true you can find bondage in prison films. hell you can probly find it in carebears if you look at it from an odd enough angle. i was trying to say you can pull fetish (or anything really) from pretty much anything. i dont think miss congeniality has anything to do with forced feminization, but if you stretch it enough im sure you can even find it a deep film on the duality of man

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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 4:17:32 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In Miss Congeniality, though, the forced feminization process is just as jarring on Sandra Bullock as it would be on a man


Sweetie, you are talking about a movie. Fiction. I meet a fair number of women FBI agents at social events and parties, as well as women from other agencies around Washington, and I can tell you from close-up observation there are few, if any, tomboys or masculine women among them. If you have certain convictions about the use of terminology, by all means let's discuss them, but illustrating your points using works of fiction as a reference is useless. On top of that, Sandra Bullock is a feminine woman, so from that perspective, too, you're off the mark. I think this is one of those "arguing for the sake of arguing" conversations.

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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 4:48:22 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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A person locked in a room with just 100 books of literature and no human contact might actually be more in tune with the world then others actively engaged in society.

Philosophy, art, film, books, poetry, and music are reflections of the world. Discussing them as if they have meaning and bearing on our actual existence is purposeful and inisightful, whereas dismissing "fictions" as "irrelevant" is stunting and closed minded.

This is somewhat true for B films as well.

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RE: Forced Feminization - 3/18/2009 4:56:18 PM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		The question wasn't about fiction, it was about whether Miss Congeniality is a forced fem movie--it isn't, the only thing forced was girlie girlie and by the way in a woman, you can't force it if it isn't there to start with somewhere.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

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