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A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 3:38:11 PM   
HeavansKeeper


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For the purpose of this thread, I may shorten phrases to pro-dom and pro-domme. While gender and dominance are exclusive, I would appreciate either consistency or clarification, "female pro-dom" works fine. I just don't want things getting muddled.

I know professional male dominants exist. They have to... But I never see much about them. Pro-dommes seem very common, along with the hacks pretending to be pro-dommes.

Is the market for pro-doms too small to warrant attention?
Is the situation any different in the gay community?
Do submissives wish there were more pro-doms?
Am I missing something, here?

I assume the main cliental of pro-female-dominants are straight men. Is it reasonable to assume the main cliental of pro-male-doms are straight females?

Does it go back to that same "Men buy it because they can't get it, but women can get it any time" argument?

Are the expectations higher on a pro-dom higher (as compared to pro-dommes) because more males are willing to do the job? If not higher, are they different?

How do people feel about men who conduct business identically to female pro-dominants? (Most notably the issue of tributes).

I've known a few PSO's, and they tell me how men in the dominant role make a killing in that field... Got me thinking, ya'know..




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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 3:40:01 PM   
DesFIP


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I've seen ads of pro male tops in magazines aimed solely at the gay community. Never seen a pro male top who serviced women.

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 3:44:56 PM   
LovingMistress45


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I don't think a woman would pay to be topped.

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 3:48:50 PM   
HeavansKeeper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingMistress45

I don't think a woman would pay to be topped.


I understand the hesitation. Fiscal, moral, traditional... But I see it like a woman paying for a massage.. with spikes. Not every guy with a roller is a masseuse. Not every guy with a crop is a dominant. What forces stop women from wanting a pro-dom while simultaneously allowing them to melt at the idea of a pro-masseuse?

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 4:09:13 PM   
OmegaG


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Why would a woman pay when she can log on here and get inudated with 15 pages of e-mails/week.  Just as in the escort service, women will pay if it suits their needs, but in reality most women can get men to give them what they want for free.

And there is a deep seeded sociatal norm that has infused us with the belief that men pay because it's the manly thing to do.

But hell, if I can pimp m'Lord out for some extra cash.................

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 5:11:28 PM   
CatdeMedici


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper


quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingMistress45

I don't think a woman would pay to be topped.


I understand the hesitation. Fiscal, moral, traditional... But I see it like a woman paying for a massage.. with spikes. Not every guy with a roller is a masseuse. Not every guy with a crop is a dominant. What forces stop women from wanting a pro-dom while simultaneously allowing them to melt at the idea of a pro-masseuse?


Control, a male massuese is goverened by state laws if he is going to operate in an establishment which is where I am going to bet MOST women would find them--there are no laws to govern a male dominant who would work alone, in his home or hers with no one around and afford far too much chance for rape or murder.  I think its a matter of common sense and safety.

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 5:53:51 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
Does it go back to that same "Men buy it because they can't get it, but women can get it any time" argument?


I think bdsm is not unlike sex (not to mention that the two are fairly intertwined for many people) in that men generally have the ability to view the activity in and of itself while women generally attach a number of emotional and psychological accessories to it making the need for one dimensional professional male dominants unnecessary. You don't seem them often because there is simply no market for them. This also accounts for the extremely high ratio of male submissives for every female dominant. This is the same reason why the world is awash with female prostitutes while the male counterpart is fairly few and far between. What surprises me is that there are not more straight female professional submissives. That seems to be a very lucrative market opportunity for anyone who can focus on the matter at hand.

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 6:29:20 PM   
LovingMistress45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper


quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingMistress45

I don't think a woman would pay to be topped.


I understand the hesitation. Fiscal, moral, traditional... But I see it like a woman paying for a massage.. with spikes. Not every guy with a roller is a masseuse. Not every guy with a crop is a dominant. What forces stop women from wanting a pro-dom while simultaneously allowing them to melt at the idea of a pro-masseuse?


A masseuse is a service worker that you pay for a specific service much like a hairstylist, manicurist, nailtech, ect.  All within the norm of what women expect to pay for.  Most women are not going to view being topped as a service. Women in general do not pay men for sex. Sure there are a few that do, but not many.  A woman might keep a man - but she does not view that as paying for sex.  Same I think holds true for being topped.  I can't think of reason/circumstance in which I would ever pay a man for sex or submission. 

Men in general have a different view and in general sex means something different to men than women. Again this is in general.  For some reason men in general are more willing to pay for these things.

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 6:37:48 PM   
VampiresLair


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I do think it comes back to women can get it, so why pay for it mentality. Its the same reason there arent as many pro subs as there are pro dominants. Supply and demand. What about male hookers? Dont see many of them either.



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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 6:43:37 PM   
Maya2001


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A lot is related to supply and demand... few female dommes to male subs
for some male subs the financial aspect is part of their kink


I do know of a pro dom  locally I can't image he gets a lot of female bottoms ..as another mentioned why pay for what you can get for free when they are already   knocking down your door.  other factor is sub females generally have lower income and are not going to be able to afford
a couple hundred per session or they are parents or looking after aging parents so the cost of the session is not only the fee but also the costs of supervised  care for an outing..for many the cost of paying for that  care limits even their time with doms that do not charge a fee


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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 6:49:15 PM   
SingleRarity


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There was a straight male pro-dom in Chicago, that I knew in passing.  He ran quite a few fetish events, and also was a bit of a rope aficionado.  I didn't know him well, but from what I understood, he often worked with a FemDomme.  A friend said that they topped straight men who wanted that whole "a women is forcing me to serve a man" scenario.  I have read his bio, and know for sure that he worked as a pro-dom, but as for his clientele, all the info I've offered is hearsay. 

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 6:50:29 PM   
nhite


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i gotta say i've wondered this very thing myself!!!  there's a scene i want to experience and i'm not willing to keep waiting endlessly for 'mr wonderfulness' to walk into my life so i can have it and yet, i never hear of pro doms.   

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 6:54:39 PM   
nhite


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as for why pay when its so readily available for free?  its this little thing called 'quality'

just cuz its available and free, doesnt mean its automatically a 'fit'.   i need someone smarter than the average bear;   yes they're out there, but they're too freakign busy with their slaves, subs, parties, play partners, teachings, etc etc etc

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 8:03:17 PM   
littlesarbonn


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I think it has a lot to do with a perceived market problem. First, you have the submissive women who say that they can get it for free, which automatically causes a lot of potential male dominants to think that there would be little market for it. But then reality has to set in and you realize that a lot of women aren't getting exactly what they're desiring. I mean, I have quite a few submissive female friends who constantly tell me how hard it is to find a dominant male. Then they become more specific, stating that "finding" a dominant male is easy, but finding one that is what they're looking for is sometimes practically impossible.

Then add in a dash of the fact that demographically, men tend to have a lot more financial power than women. Now this isn't always the case with everyone, but statistically it matches, and mentally it resonates, even if the numbers are becoming a lot more equal these days. Perception feeds a lot of this sort of thinking. So, the thought is that men can afford to see professionals, but women probably can't. We know in the back of our minds this isn't really completely true, but the back of our minds is rarely where rational thought appears.

Then you have the fantasy dynamic. Women are seeking a specific fantasy, and finding it is difficult. It comes back to the whole "there are so many men and so few women" that the belief is that if they keep looking for it, they'll eventually find it. But they rarely do. So they're limited to one of two possibilities: They become very vocal about what they want, or they keep seeing more men in hopes that one of them will naturally do what they hope their fantasies entail. People are bizarre; they'll tend to do the latter rather than the former, even though the former actually reaches the fulfillment state much faster than the latter.

Personally, I think a male dominant who advertised well and was completely interested in the fantasies of women would find business. It might be slow at first, but word of mouth would probably lead to more business. Unfortunately, almost every time I've run into a male dominant who talks about wanting to do the pro thing (it's always just talk), they're trying to go the same route as dominant women who demand men do exactly as they desire. The women aren't seeking that sort of dominant (cause they can find that for free), but almost always that is what the "expert" dominant male advertises as and wonders why he sees no clientele. The fantasy market is really where I perceive the business to be. Very rarely do they ever push that direction.

But that's just me talking, a submissive male. What could I possibly know?


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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 8:27:48 PM   
ExKat


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When I'm looking for a scene, I don't imagine just a pretty face with a whip doing exactly what I told him to do to me. My fantasies, even the ones that are straight sex, focus a lot on the dynamic and relationships between me and the dominant. I don't think that many women are interested just in sex...again, the reason why there are fewer male prostitutes who deal with women. Yes, I have specific fantasies, and yes, it's not easy to find a man to fulfill them, but the fantasies involve a man who will do the laundry and feed the kitty after he beats me.

With a male dominant, we're also dealing with the issue of safety. Although men get off on imaging their pro-domina could beat the crap out of them, in reality, they are safe in their knowledge that no woman is actually going to hurt them. As a female, and a submissive, I'm not going to play with anyone unless I know they're completely safe and non-crazy, and safe and non-crazy are terms that frequently do not apply to sex workers.

To be honest, the only time I could ever see paying for domination is if it was with an extremely skilled purveyor...a shibari master or famous artist of pain. Even then...there really aren't any skills that could be so refined that I couldn't find a man willing to practice them for free.

I don't want to play with just anyone. I only want to play with someone I already know and am attracted to. If I'm attracted to someone...the idea of paying them to play brings a lot of my insecurities into play. Why don't they want me without me paying them? How can he dominate me if he is only doing exactly what I asked him to and am paying him for? Sex for women is usually a much more complicated process.


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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 9:49:19 PM   
GotSteel


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There are also a lot more female than male hookers and there are plenty of single women out there. Perhaps the reason is more that for whatever emotional/cultural/moral/etc reason men are more willing to pay for it.

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 10:18:07 PM   
Lawrence111


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingMistress45

I don't think a woman would pay to be topped.


I have been racking my brain, tried to think of the film that made it to my local underground art house about this "house" that at the time was in the same buildings as paddles in New York City. this house was on the top floor, a FemDomme establishment. they briefly showed one scene where a man was topping is a woman. It was a professional situation. She was restrained he was working her with mild stimulation (touches of rope, feathers, mild stroking with leather, with his hands) and as he moved on to "harder" things, the camera moved away.

The point had been made: the man had been paid.

what's struck me so ( pardon the pun) was that her face looked just like she was getting a massage (and yes I've seen that sort of reaction before). she looks very relaxed.

I didn't see that segment is being faked. this was 10 or so years ago.

Lawrence

< Message edited by Lawrence111 -- 3/20/2009 10:19:58 PM >

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/20/2009 10:56:14 PM   
HeavansKeeper


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As a general reply, there's no question that men are available to women. The defense here, as it was brought up in passing, is not that men aren't available, but that GOOD men aren't. The argument can be made for pro-dommes. There are billions of women willing to take my money and be bitchy to me. I'm not looking for that as a client, I'm looking for the skills and wiles of a well trained and experienced domina. Bratty spoiled pretty girls are just as common as men willing to dominate a woman.

Another issue was safety. Men should be aware that when tied up, they're vulnerable to rape and robbery. I understand that doesn't excuse the male/female power indifference, but again - I'm talking about quality and professional service. To suggest a pro-dom is likely to rape a client is just like suggesting a pro-domme will pilfer through your home, stealing as she sees fit. The fact is "fear of" and "reality of" are different measurements, and it takes no imagination to guess which one people follow. This issue is moot when considering online or telephone interaction.

Another issue was the intimate connection. I completely underestimated this because it's not how I think. But what is it? Can it be faked? Is the intimate connection knowing he'll be there for you when you're sick? Is it built when you watch him be foolish or piggish or childish? Is it purely a matter of luck and chemistry? What factors contribute to the very praised intimate connection?

Another issue was money. Quite frankly, in the United States, there's debate among who's making more money in the 20,000-70,000 a year bracket, which is where most fall. The super-rich are dominated by men, but they make up a sinfully small percent of total population. The notion that men make more money than women is popular and antiquated. I've never seen an example of equal work but unequal pay. It's a stigma that takes time to move on from, but we're moving in the right direction.

Another issue concerned itself with the expectations. If a woman were to pay a man to dominate her, would she want to bend to his whim or does she want to have a greta amount on influence in what happens? I don't think it matters. A professional can do either. I understand many pro-dommes do not take requests (and orders only piss them off ) but that doesn't exclude the value of "the customer is always right". It starts to muddy up who's in charge, but this is business. The D/s is one thing, the money is another. End of the day, one leaves with at least a fistful of cash and the other leaves with a smile. If both are satisfied with the terms, it doesn't matter if the bottom top the top what they expect to happen. I consider this aspect moot.

Another issue was "the norms of what women expect to pay for." There was a time when women found the idea of paying for the theatre just as appalling (or appealing) as paying for a pro-dom. These expectations change over time. What was true of the past (and present) will be true of the future is a logical fallacy. That said, we live in the present. It's my favorite chauvinist gambit, using examples like this to inspire women to hop on the feminism train.

I'm not surprised to the direction of this thread. It doesn't take a brain surgeon by day /rocket scientist by night to figure out women are not going to dish out cash for pro-doms. One day, I think it will be different. The idea of purchased male companionship will be a viable market in the coming decades.



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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/21/2009 12:29:22 AM   
Honsoku


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The "safety" argument is more an issue of perception than any solid foundation. Plenty of what dominas do is at least as dangerous and leaves a male submissive in a near equally precarious position. The "a woman can't seriously hurt a man" is plain BS.

I agree that sales message would have to be about quality. I think that there is something else that is critical: acceptance. I get a lot of people who are embarrassed about talking about what they want. This is especially true when it comes to culturally taboo areas, like force fantasies. I get a lot of variations on "you must think I'm crazy for wanting this". There are also a lot of posts on this board (and others) about women struggling with being judged by the people around them when their interests become known. Wouldn't it be nice to have a place where that judgment was gone and you could get what you wanted, when you wanted it, and without any bullshit?

I think the largest issue is going to be getting past the "women are above paying" mindset. The money is there, the desire is there, just not the mindset that it is alright to pay for something like that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
I'm not surprised to the direction of this thread. It doesn't take a brain surgeon by day /rocket scientist by night to figure out women are not going to dish out cash for pro-doms. One day, I think it will be different. The idea of purchased male companionship will be a viable market in the coming decades.


Maybe not *many* women at this point in time. However, having had several soft offers for additional "compensation" for my time tossed my way, I think there is definitely a market waiting to be tapped.

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RE: A Lack of Pro-Male-Dominants? - 3/21/2009 2:57:24 AM   
subboi3382


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I don't think there is much demand for them, like LovingMistress said about women and I can't see many gay men paying for it

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