Lack of Assertion (Full Version)

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Timesamyth -> Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 12:58:40 PM)

I've been having some inner conflict lately.

Through browsing the boards I've noticed that many s-types label themselves as assertive, which I'm envious of since I've never been able to assert myself as much as I would like to. I try to avoid conflict, have a hard time saying no, gravitate to the strongest person, always lowering my eyes, etc. This is troubling to me since, coupled with other aspects of my personality, I end up throwing myself all over the place ( submitting to strangers without consciously intending/wanting to)......which shouldn't be mistaken for politeness.  I'm not that noble.

* However, this IS part of my personality. I was never abused and my family has been more than good to me. I inherited it from my mother.*

My concerns: 1.) Daddy doesn't want me submitting to other people, but I'm at a loss as how to avoid it. How can I change (medication was ineffective, as was therapy and self-help)?

2.) Is it even morally ethical to try and change what is part of my overall personality?

3.) What types of trouble will this cause me in the future? It's already caused me some grief and I feel it to be slightly debilitating, but what's the worst that could happen?

4.) I've noticed that people tend pick up on my lack of 'stand-upishness'. This results in them pushing, pushing, pushing - and me eventually caving in...or somewhat caving in.

Is there anyone who is/has been in a similar situation (dumb question)? If so, how do you/did you manage to deal with it?  Any links would be nice. 

I understand this is kind of a "It's up to you" question which really has no definite answers - but it'd be nice to hear back from people. Thanks.

*I've tried searching this topic, but didn't find anything - so I hope I didn't post a willy-nilly board*



Vanityfull -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 1:36:53 PM)

i tend to be a dick in my regular life and feel i am therefor an expert(see is that not dickish to say!)

hard life lesson, if you are nice all of the time people are going to walk on you. figuree out what about your submitting to people you dont like and set your own boundries and respect them.

gaining more assertiveness socially is really really a personal thing, i suggest working on confadence and practice... seriously, it could be something as simple as needing to get a  better feel for social structure which going out into social situations is the best way, i would suggest doing so with strong assertive people you know and trust the more confortable you are in a situation the easier you can express your wants and dislikes and solve them yourself.

i see nothing morally wrong with self change as long as its constructive and not overly forced.

personally i used be very socially submissive, i got pissed of being a doormat and started to stand up for myself, witty combacks to fistycuffs, its a possibility you dont actually have much need to be more assertive and when you do it will come. alot of quiet socially submissive people tend to ignore things others would get pissed about, dont be afraid to express anguree, release your inner asshole.

-Vanity



Lynnxz -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 1:37:42 PM)

I used to have this issue.

I don't even think I picked up on the fact that it was a problem until I was 18-19. I was submitting to just anyone. Complete douche I just met a few hours ago? Sure, I'll come over, wouldn't want to make you angry. Taxi drivers could bully me into 20 dollar tips, 'friends' would require me to foot the bill for our outings, I even helped smuggle fricking freebase heroin somewhere because I wanted a girl to approve of me.

It's a ridiculous place to be in, and definitely not a safe one. It took two lifechanging, 'traumatic' I suppose, events- and about a year of being poor as s*** and some living out of my car to pull my head out of my ass.

I finally realized I could no longer afford to be everyone's bitch, and that I needed to grow a backbone in order to survive. I can't give you a specific path to follow- but I hope you have the support of real friends and family to help you make it through.



slvemike4u -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 2:24:21 PM)

It's called being a "people-pleaser" and it can be a bitch.Especially if you combine this trait with poor taste in choosing friends SO's and such.It is a role I fell into in childhhod....it has taken most of my adult life and numerous cycles of therapy to learn how to protect myself.
Of course I still have a problem where the Lovely Ladies are concerned ,but that's another story.



daddysprop247 -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 2:25:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timesamyth

I've been having some inner conflict lately.

Through browsing the boards I've noticed that many s-types label themselves as assertive, which I'm envious of since I've never been able to assert myself as much as I would like to. I try to avoid conflict, have a hard time saying no, gravitate to the strongest person, always lowering my eyes, etc. This is troubling to me since, coupled with other aspects of my personality, I end up throwing myself all over the place ( submitting to strangers without consciously intending/wanting to)......which shouldn't be mistaken for politeness.  I'm not that noble.

* However, this IS part of my personality. I was never abused and my family has been more than good to me. I inherited it from my mother.*

My concerns: 1.) Daddy doesn't want me submitting to other people, but I'm at a loss as how to avoid it. How can I change (medication was ineffective, as was therapy and self-help)?

2.) Is it even morally ethical to try and change what is part of my overall personality?

3.) What types of trouble will this cause me in the future? It's already caused me some grief and I feel it to be slightly debilitating, but what's the worst that could happen?

4.) I've noticed that people tend pick up on my lack of 'stand-upishness'. This results in them pushing, pushing, pushing - and me eventually caving in...or somewhat caving in.

Is there anyone who is/has been in a similar situation (dumb question)? If so, how do you/did you manage to deal with it?  Any links would be nice. 

I understand this is kind of a "It's up to you" question which really has no definite answers - but it'd be nice to hear back from people. Thanks.

*I've tried searching this topic, but didn't find anything - so I hope I didn't post a willy-nilly board*



Timesamyth...i have been exactly where you are, and can relate very much to all of the things you've said above. i too have been very passive, meek, compliant, a pushover, all my life...as a result many have taken it upon themselves to take advantage of me, use me for their own purposes, abuse me horribly. for me, that is how my submissive nature is displayed. i submit not by conscious choice or desire, but more by reflex. and like you, for many years i saw this as a horrible personality flaw and character weakness, and wished desperately to somehow "fix" it.

but then i found a Man who saw beauty and value where i saw only flaws. He had long been dreaming of finding just such a submissive, but never really hoped to do so. for him, i was a dream realized. it shocked the heck outta me, lol. that man eventually became my Master, and rather than try to "fix" me, or attempt to make me into someone that i am not, he encourages me to be true to myself and takes it upon himself to protect me, care for me, and control me so that being who i am does not lead to all the traumatic and dangerous events that befell me before i was owned.

if you would care to discuss this further, just contact me on the other side, i'd be happy to do so. unfortunately on these boards there is a tendency by many to deride and look down up passive-type submissives who do not wish to "change."



IvyMorgan -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 2:27:11 PM)

Pretty much what Lynn said, except I didn't smuggle drugs, I did do other things.

I found NLP was useful, that and a bunch of therapy and supportive friends.



OneMoreWaste -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 4:05:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timesamyth
2.) Is it even morally ethical to try and change what is part of my overall personality?

3.) What types of trouble will this cause me in the future? It's already caused me some grief and I feel it to be slightly debilitating, but what's the worst that could happen?


Are you asking if it's morally "wrong" to try to change an aspect of your personality that you feel has a negative impact on your life?

Personally, I deal with it by avoiding unnecessary social interaction. This of course presents some issues as well, but it leaves lots of time to work on my novel [:)]



Zechriel -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 5:36:52 PM)

Good evening!
I think you have to find a balance that works for you. When anything dealing with my family or ethics or anything personal, I tend to stand up and be very asertive, rather I call it protective. I am not afraid to picture a strong female diety and personify them in order to protect my family. On the other hand, I do tend to find the corners of a room and observe, have very polite manners and not speak unless spoken to and also hate eye contact (I wear sunglasses most of the day) People think I am either shy or snobby that way but in reality I am being very protective of myself. If they see submissiveness or snottiness so be it.

  Sounds like your Daddy is trying to get you to stand up for yourself or at least protect yourself when he is not around to do it. I know my Daddy loves the fact that I can be the strong woman and yet snap his fingers and turn into baby girl goo! Maybe this is what he sees in you, that you do have the ability to achieve a balance. Next time when faced with a really pushy person, think of a strong figure that you admire, then take on her/his attitude and strength. When the situation is done, just shake it off. In magick we call that invoking the God/ess form, but it is a very basic thing to learn...you just become that form and let it empower you for that short time you need it to. Then be able to let it go (divest). You might also want to ask your Daddy if he DOES want you to find a balance between strength towards others and submissiveness towards him. He what he says. Good luck!
Love,
Zechriel [sm=couple.gif]



chamberqueen -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 5:37:45 PM)

You can try running things past your Daddy, such as, "So and so wants me to do such and such.  What do you think?"  Tell people that you can't make the decision without running it by your significant other (or whatever you call him to people).  Just knowing that you feel the need to check with someone first may stop a lot of them short.

It is one thing to have a generous spirit and truly want to help others but another to do it to the point of having it be a detriment to yourself and to your most important relationship.  It certainly doesn't mean that you should never be helpful, but start choosing more carefully.  Maybe your Daddy will help you to make the choices.  If not, and he needs you to change, maybe that in itself will give you enough strength to start saying "no" to people when you know they are asking for too much.  It won't happen overnight, but knowing that you are being pleasing to him will definitely be a big help to you.



DesFIP -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/22/2009 6:19:41 PM)

Don't answer immediately. Tell everyone you need to check your schedule and get back to them. And let modern technology be your friend. If you've refused to lend your car, and the answering machine picks up and it's the person with a bad driving record still trying to borrow it, don't answer the phone.

Before you call people back with a no, write down what you want to say. "Sorry, my insurance rates are too high to risk lending the car:"

"yeah but this is an emergency"

"Sorry my insurance rates are too high to risk lending the car:"

But I'm different and anyway I really need it. "Sorry my insurance rates are too high to risk lending the car"

Write down a one sentence refusal and repeat it over and over. Then hang up.



NorthernGent -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/23/2009 3:20:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timesamyth

My concerns: 1.) Daddy doesn't want me submitting to other people, but I'm at a loss as how to avoid it. How can I change (medication was ineffective, as was therapy and self-help)?



Any given social interaction is a negotiation piece. The trick is to understand and utilise your bargaining tools. For instance, in an office environment, you are bound to authority, but that doesn't mean you don't have something with which to bargain; which is why those who understand their value are not 'walked all over', and those who don't end up doing the tasks that no one else wants and are outside of the scope of their contract. You can apply this to social situations.

I'm not a big fan of 'therapy' (just my personal take on it); I think you could help yourself by sitting down and having a good, long think about what it is that makes you a valuable person. Your partner may be able to lend a hand, here. If it helps, I've been dating a woman recently who is very good company, excellent conversation, has a great sense of humour; and is extremely shy (which I think isn't necessarily a bad thing because it shows a certain humility). The point is that she has a lot to offer; the trick is to understand, appreciate and be confident in her value.



hallieB -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/23/2009 7:20:52 AM)

I to have been and still am guilty of this. i remember sometime in my early 20's with two kids, a husband, a full time job and taking care of a home. i remember my father saying these words to me "you cant say no." My father has passed away since and 20+ years later i still hear him saying those words. i do find it hard to say NO. It is good for me to have a strong dominant figure in my life, yes it does help to say let me run that by my Master (or what ever your case may be) and see what he thinks. He does keep people from taking advantage of me.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/23/2009 8:02:08 AM)

Being unable to set healthy boundaries is NOT submission, as Lynx demonstrated so eloquently.  Learning to set and politely enforce healthy boundaries is something some people have to learn.   I still sometimes wrestle with this, friends in need of help are my weakness, I have a real hard time saying no.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/23/2009 8:44:05 AM)

quote:

Is there anyone who is/has been in a similar situation (dumb question)? If so, how do you/did you manage to deal with it?


acting.  think "you deserve that Tony Award" kind of acting.
there are classes and books on the subject, if you need them.  you could search your local area theaters and libraries and even the internet for resources.
e.g.
http://www.actingclassbook.com/

this slave has managed to avoid some potentially awful circumstances by becoming an actress, of sorts. as uncomfortable as it is, without having a dominant bone in her body or mind, it has been necessary for this slave to ACT dominant, from time to time, over the course of her life.
 
thankfully, she met Master, and doesn't have to pretend to be dominant anymore with regards to anything or anyone.
 
best wishes to you!



Timesamyth -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/23/2009 12:29:41 PM)

Thank you for the advice - and examples. It is so nice to see that I'm not the only one who struggles with this (well....I mean....it's not nice that other people struggle, but it is nice to know that others have 'been there, done that'). 




DavanKael -> RE: Lack of Assertion (3/23/2009 8:35:07 PM)

Being submissive isn't about being a doormat. 
What is comfortable about being a push-over or doormat?  I have seen this to evidence a lack of desire to take responsibility. 
Do you have issues with such? 
  Davan



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