RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (Full Version)

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ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/23/2009 4:45:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Be careful!
This is shaping up to be a bear market "Bear Trap."
Until we get total capitulation we will remain in a bear market.


Oh, I hear ya. I'm not buying anything. Definitely have a few positions I'm looking to lighten up a bit, soon as we get a little higher (3M, anyone?), but I don't trust this enough to be buying any index funds or anything at the moment.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/23/2009 5:15:10 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~
 
It makes me all 'warm & fuzzy' to see so many who, not long ago, were discussing and pontificating regarding the 'evil capitalists' on Wall Street now applaud a day where they recapture some of the losses they've incurred. Thank goodness huh?

And what did it cost? Only another Trillion dollars more of tax money earmarked to buy 'bad assets' created by the same Congress that spent last week trying to recoup what their last piece of legislation put in place. Anyone keeping track of exactly how much corporate welfare this Administration has allocated? Until this Administration took power, I always thought it was the Republicans who were the friends of Bankers and Businessmen. Now I know better. The distinction being failure is a requirement for the Democratic Party's elected officials, and their constituency, to support handing out Trillions of dollars in corporate welfare. Seeing Barney Frank stand out there to have the very same bad loans he wanted, and used tax money to lend, being bought back by another batch of tax money going to another batch of Banking friends was amusing as all hell. Hey Barney - I guess some people really can't afford, and shouldn't be be homeowners huh? Tax money outgoing to Fred & Fanny, tax money to bail out AIG's insurance payouts to Banks (offshore & domestic), not tax money out to fund another set of 'lenders' (not labeled predatory, yet...) to buy back the bad loans. I heard its another GREAT deal for the US taxpayer too. If they make money - they keep it 50%, if they don't the taxpayers buy it back from them. Don't have a direct source of that, but it was what my broker told me when he called today. Hell - it's a wonder the Market didn't go up 1000 points!

I'm sure Congress and the Administration has spent at least as much time on thinking this through as they did with the Bill that generated all the hullabaloo last week.

Show of hands - Who thinks they did?

Anyone keeping track of how many Trillions of dollars have been spent? How large a deficit do you think the USA will have at the end of this fiscal year? Oh, the good old days, when 'Bush Bashing' was focused on how he, after 9/11, spent away the Clinton budget surplus. The concern about forcing our progeny to pay for his fiscal irresponsibility was noted every day in the papers. Now the multi-generational payout of the debt incurred in the past 90 days isn't even being mentioned.

HOORAY for WALL STREET~! We all made some money today!

It does my heart good to see all the NeoCaps (New Capitalists) being created by this Administration.



Owner59 -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/23/2009 11:52:51 PM)

It`s your predator capitalism that folks don`t want.Merc.

All those un-regulated markets, gambling with the public`s money and the nation`s financial well being are over,partner.Say good bye.

Regulated free enterprise is what built this nation and made the dollar the world`s most valuable currency.

All you and your wall street buddies have done is to ruin it.

Thanks to george bush,Ronald Reagen`s economic theories have been killed and are buried for good.

Folks are as pissed as ever right now and don`t mind government regulation to protect them from wall street crooks!



Kirata -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/24/2009 1:05:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

All those un-regulated markets, gambling with the public`s money and the nation`s financial well being are over,partner.Say good bye...
 
Folks are as pissed as ever right now and don`t mind government regulation to protect them from wall street crooks!

Given your feeling that our new administration is so much better and wiser, perhaps you can explain to me why it is printing money out the wazoo (and mortgaging the future of the country in the process) to rescue the very same crooks that it is condemning out of the other side of its mouth. Because in the final analysis, the only choice we have at this point is who is going to suffer. And it looks to me like both the White House and the Fed have decided that the American taxpayer is going to be the pasty in the show.

The centerpiece of this disaster was "deregulating" out of existence the distinction between commerical banks and investment banks. It seems to me that one constructive way to deal with the problem would be to separate them again. Require them to split their books, and then let the rats sink. Why the hell are we paying off their gambling debts? Maybe there's something here that I'm not grasping. Okay, fair enough. I'm listening. Explain to me why it is so much better and wiser to run the presses at the Treasury day and night.

Seriously. I'd be delighted to be able to relax and feel that the country is in good hands. Because so far, this administration's biggest claim to fame seems to me to be its endlessly entertaining bumbling.

K.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/24/2009 6:15:08 AM)

quote:

Thanks to george bush,Ronald Reagen`s economic theories have been killed and are buried for good.
Is that why Obama is following them and propping up businesses and paying off their campaign funding sources with billions of dollars of tax payer money?

If only you and the other neo-caps wound answer a question...

quote:

Folks are as pissed as ever right now and don`t mind government regulation to protect them from wall street crooks!
Yeah, I'm seeing them pissed that after countless Trillions of tax allocated by this Congress and this Administration the only growth industry is government bureaucracy. Not one private sector industry is hiring. Was that the plan?

But again seeing you defend corporate welfare and joining the ranks of the neo-caps is fun to watch.



samboct -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/24/2009 7:28:43 AM)

Somebody check the thermometer in Hell-Merc and I seem to be agreeing- as does Paul Krugman in the NY Times.

I'm sorry, but what the market does in one day is not a reliable indicator of anything.  In the long run, the market may be able to price assets reasonably- in the short run- it's chaotic.  Hence, Wall St. evaluation of the plan doesn't do much for me.

Krugman's analysis is that the plan basically looks the same as what Paulson came up with six months ago- and it's a heads you lose, tails I win scenario for the taxpayer. Merc's explanation is correct- Krugman is a source.  Essentially it's a weaseling to try and get people to buy bad assets with no risk- if the assets fall, the taxpayer bails them out. If the price of the assets don't fall, they make out.  This plan only works if the "assets" are indeed artificially depressed and when the market screws its head on correctly, these "assets" will recover in value.  My comment is that I don't think these "assets" have much value at all- being complex financial transactions that have no basis in reality such as- The housing market can only go up, even when real wages stagflate.  I don't think our financial system was fundamentally sound and this is an aberration- I think the regulations that provided useful checks and balances were removed (Thank you Alan Greenspan!!) and the market spun out of control like it did in the 1920s.

Krugman's suggestion- quit goofing around- bite the bullet- and nationalize the insolvent banks.  Assume that the market really now does have an idea of what these "assets" are worth- take the losses, capitalize new banks and let the bankrupt institutions fall.  Deal with the fact that the government is going to own a bunch of banks until the system is rebuilt.


Sam



SilverMark -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/24/2009 9:46:59 AM)

I have no issues with any of the opinions expressed here....My only point is that FOR ONCE....the market didn't tank when Geithner spoke....every time since this poor guy took office, he stumbled and bumbled and sometimes mumbled through what he was saying and the markets DIED!....absolutely fell off a cliff....I have no better idea if this is a turning point(doubtful yet) but, I was amazed none the less. It actually broke the cycle of doom, post speech, that I had seen. Who knows, maybe the guy has learned not to speak until he truly has something to say which would be in all our best interests.



popeye1250 -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/24/2009 10:55:26 AM)

Well, various News sources are saying that unemployment could be up to "double digits by *year end*.
So, that doesn't bode well for the next eight months does it?
Sure, we'll have some rallies between now and then but we'll also have some big down weeks too.
The market has the potential for 500 point up days or weeks but, it also has the potential for a 2,000 point drop in a few days or weeks as well.
In my mind anyway at this juncture there is more risk than reward in the markets.
Getting to "capitulation" isn't going to be pretty.



pahunkboy -> RE: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner opens mouth and the market DOES NOT TANK!.... (3/24/2009 1:49:02 PM)

1.2 tillion divided by 300 million = the amount YOU must pay,

yup. what a guy!!!



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