Dear AIG, .... I quit! (Full Version)

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DedicatedDom40 -> Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 10:28:57 AM)

Resignation letter from an AIG vice president, published in the Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/opinion/25desantis.html?ref=opinion






MasterHypnotist -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 11:28:04 AM)

DD40,

Thank you for posting this.

MH




awmslave -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 11:47:49 AM)

Piece of garbadge. Why not just say: in 11 years I sucked enough money out of AIG for myself to live in luxury for centuries, why I need to do dirty work trying to clean the mess I was part of creating?




Honsoku -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 11:50:44 AM)

Something is fishy. The executive VP has never met or spoken with the president of the company? In the ten years that he has been there? From what has been both their best and worst performing section?

Not to mention that the bonuses to the FP division were frozen by AIG months ago.

Nov. 25th, 2008:
quote:

Cuomo said AIG's earlier agreement to freeze $19 million of bonuses to former Chief Executive Martin Sullivan and halt disbursements from a $600 million pool for AIG's financial products division still stand. The insurer has also canceled any retreats and junkets.


It was only recently that AIG tried to unfreeze them which brought around this whole bruhaha. They tried to look like they were cleaning up their act and then sneak the bonuses back in when they thought no one was looking.

On the second page he mentions that his bonus was ~$700,000. So if it get taxed at 90%, it'll be about $70,000. Somehow, I don't feel badly about this. If he does donate it all like he says, then he obviously isn't quitting because he needs more pay.

This screams "publicity stunt" and comes across as rather disingenuous.




Raiikun -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 1:06:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

Piece of garbadge. Why not just say: in 11 years I sucked enough money out of AIG for myself to live in luxury for centuries, why I need to do dirty work trying to clean the mess I was part of creating?


Or, why not just actually educate yourself on the situation, in which case you'd discovered he wasn't affiliated with the department that did cause the mess, and in fact is one of the people who actually did well at his job and kept the mess from being a lot bigger than it was?

But don't let facts get in the way of pointing at scapegoats, heh.




DedicatedDom40 -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 1:43:34 PM)

Liddy, the CEO, has only been there for 5 months, and a good portion of that time has been spent dealing with congress. He came over from Allstate. He wouldnt necessarily have had private one-on-one conversations with all the grunt VPs at AIG.

Also, to you and me, bonus = bonus.  To them, bonus = normal salary when everybody is contracted for a $1 artificial salary.  If the guy doesnt get ANY pay beyond a $1 salary, and the bonus which is how the guy really gets his salary is a political hostage and taxed into oblivion, would YOU go in to work tomorrow when there is no salary paid for your effort?  I sure as hell wouldnt. Thats basically what the guy is saying, too.  How you conclude "then he obviously isn't quitting because he needs more pay" sincerely baffles me. He can't get more pay, or ANY pay, under current conditions.

Do us all a favor and put away the tinfoil hat.






awmslave -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 1:57:58 PM)

quote:

Or, why not just actually educate yourself on the situation, in which case you'd discovered he wasn't affiliated with the department that did cause the mess, and in fact is one of the people who actually did well at his job and kept the mess from being a lot bigger than it was?

I am not here scapegoating somebody I do not know. I just did not like the attitude of the letter: the saint Mr. DeSantis  sacrificed his time and energy for 10 years and now he can not keep his bonus? It does not mean anything that he was not directly involved with derivatives trading. His huge income came from high risk practices of AIG. I just see another hypocrite Blagojevich in play here. He did his work well inside "legally" corrupt corporate culture and he refuses to recognize there was anyhing wrong with the system.




Raiikun -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 2:04:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

His huge income came from high risk practices of AIG. I just see another hypocrite Blagojevich in play here.


His income (The $1 a year salary + bonus) came from doing his job, and doing it well...a job that had nothing to do with the practices that got AIG in trouble.

quote:

He did his work well inside "legally" corrupt corporate culture and he refuses to recognize there was anyhing wrong with the system. 


Got a statement from him that declares he thinks nothing is wrong with the system, or did you just make that up?  Should he be punished for the failures of others simply because those others worked in the same company?  If that's the case...should we be taking pay away from the janitors at AIG as well?  (Or are we assigning guilt based on how much money one makes?)




Raiikun -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 2:10:36 PM)

Oh and for the attitude of the letter...let's say you got asked to help fix a bad problem within a company at a rate of $1 salary per year, with a bonus offered for sticking it out once your job is over.  You do the job, get the accounts closed out, helping resolve 1.1 trillion dollars of debt in the company, get your bonus, then have to suffer through your government threatening to take it back.  I'd admit, I'd have a bit of an attitude as well.




FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 2:10:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave
Why not just say: in 11 years I sucked enough money out of AIG for myself to live in luxury for centuries, why I need to do dirty work trying to clean the mess I was part of creating?

He did his work well inside "legally" corrupt corporate culture and he refuses to recognize there was anyhing wrong with the system.
Amen to that!
I applaud this person for doing the right thing and quitting...   I am in full agreement with the senator that said, those execs should take on the japanese examples in expressing their immoral, and  shameful practices. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/03/gop-senator-aig.html.     M




Kirata -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 2:19:20 PM)

~FR~
 
I think it would be helpful if people stated at the outset whether or not they had actually read the guy's letter, so we could tell whether their response was due to ignorance or other causes.
 
K.
 
 
 
 




Honsoku -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 2:34:03 PM)

After looking the time up, Liddy has been the CEO for longer than five months (though apparently not much). It still seems odd. If I was taking over over a company with a massive problem area, I would be *gasp* talking to the people in and around that problem area a lot. From the letter, he doesn't sound like he is supposed to be some grunt VP. They are paying their grunt VPs nearly a million a year and having them orchestrate selling off major chunks of the company without interfacing with top level people? That doesn't fit. No matter how you dice it, the letter doesn't add up.

Executives take a $1 salary in exchange for extravagant bonus pay because;

A: It's good for tax reasons
B: It means that they are pinning their future success on the success of the company.

The downside to B is that if the company tanks, so do you. Well, the company tanked. You took your chances. Deal.

However, from the tone of the letter; the core issue isn't the money. If he can afford to donate it all, he and his family isn't going to starve. True, he may feel unfairly put upon, but on the flip side so are millions upon millions of other people. He still had a job and he was still making more than about 90% of the population (even assuming he only gets that 10% of his bonus). The whole thing has the ring of a supposed adult throwing a tantrum going "But it's not faaaair" then storming out.

Let's not forget that the 90% tax only affects people with a household income of $250,000 or more. Which will most likely be hacked out in tax court to mean that if you are the sole income source, that only the part of the income above $250,000 will get taxed at the 90% rate.

Here is what I suspect really happened;

When AIG was caught being cavalier with taxpayer money back in October, they went and tightened down on a bunch of extravagant expenses, including bonuses. For the ones that were effectively being paid bonus as salary, they told their people that this was only for show and that they would unfreeze the bonus by the time these bonuses were due. This was because they assumed that the heat would be off, so they could slip them by. Unfortunately for them, other places needed bailing and the heat didn't come off of them, so someone noticed. Now AIG is having to actually stick to their word that they gave to the government and the people who were counting on being able to pull a fast one are all upset.




awmslave -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 2:35:29 PM)

quote:

If that's the case...should we be taking pay away from the janitors at AIG as well? (Or are we assigning guilt based on how much money one makes?)
 
No, janitor of AIG could keep his 2 million salary and bonus. Job well done, no problems.




popeye1250 -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 2:48:16 PM)

These "bailouts" are just keeping wealthy people wealthy.
(They) have better access to our government than do the rest of us.
I don't want to pay for this shit, do you?
I want to see these crooks in jail.




winterlight -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 3:44:35 PM)

Agrees with popeye




domiguy -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 3:45:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

These "bailouts" are just keeping wealthy people wealthy.
(They) have better access to our government than do the rest of us.
I don't want to pay for this shit, do you?
I want to see these crooks in jail.


Many of them have done nothing wrong.  Making money is not a crime. 




DedicatedDom40 -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 3:52:46 PM)

I agree that this was the work of about 12 people, who scattered like cockroaches when the light switch was turned on. Penalizing the people who remain when the criminals are long gone is dumb.

We elected people who were supposed to represent the taxpayers. Those elected officials devised legislation that set the terms associated with the bailout monies. If those terms did not set absolute conditions regarding bonuses, then thats the fault of congress.  If those terms were generous in an attempt to retain the neccessary knowledge to keep those WMDs from going off, then why are we allowed to reneg on those contracts simply because people who live on Main St and who aren't smart enough to make the same money have an objection? We are entering dangerous precedent territory when congress tries to control the paychecks of workers simply because it is now reacting to a populist rage blowback from those who elected them. This is the kind of drama we would expect from some third-world tin shack dictator.

Taxpayers got hosed by those whom were elected to represent them in congress. And not for reasons that the plan was bad, but that our congress whom was living on caviar and champagne totally did not anticipate the reaction from the beer and chicken wings crowd who is not really all that educated about the problem.

Why all the anger at AIG staff who really were not involved? Why the quest to control AIG paychecks?





rulemylife -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 4:05:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40

Taxpayers got hosed by those whom were elected to represent them in congress. And not for reasons that the plan was bad, but that our congress whom was living on caviar and champagne totally did not anticipate the reaction from the beer and chicken wings crowd who is not really all that educated about the problem.

Why all the anger at AIG staff who really were not involved?
Why the quest to control AIG paychecks?


I've asked this before and I'll ask it again.

How is it that Congress is responsible for making sure that a loan made in good faith would not somehow be abused by the recipient?

They're not clairvoyant.








rulemylife -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 4:16:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

These "bailouts" are just keeping wealthy people wealthy.
(They) have better access to our government than do the rest of us.
I don't want to pay for this shit, do you?
I want to see these crooks in jail.


Many of them have done nothing wrong.  Making money is not a crime. 


Yeah, it sort of is when the excessive amount of money they are making was provided by taxpayers, most of whom will never approach that level of income, when it was designed to save a failing company from bankruptcy.




SilverMark -> RE: Dear AIG, .... I quit! (3/25/2009 4:16:25 PM)

If what is said in the letter is true, this man is no crook nor has he done anything less than his job. To read the responses to his resignation reeks of jealousy not some form of righteous indignation. If the company that those of you who seem to think he is such a leach work for, were to be under bankruptcy most of you would be right there extracting every cent you think you are owed. To begrudge what the man made, in an area not related to the problem is much like saying tomorrow all of you work for free....and few,if any would do it. Pretty amazing amount of smugness being displayed by those who would not expect less if they found themselves in a similar situation.




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