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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 5:46:07 PM   
MasterG2kTR


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From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		I am in favor of legalizing marijuana, however that won't likely happen for one reason. It can be grown almost anywhere, thus that means the government would not be able to effectively control it and tax it. Just the same, even though they may not effectively tax pot if it were legal, they would still win big in not having to incur law enforcement costs, courts, jails, etc....

(in reply to StrangerThan)
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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 5:59:54 PM   
Vanityfull


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Status: offline 		i think legalising drugs is a very bad idea, i dont think it would phase gangs that much, profits for them would go down leading for the orginisations needing to expand which cuases gangwars as they start to overlap. if narcotics were lost as a profit they would adapt by some new avenue.

i think its a need for more education of kids on gangs and drugs, i am from some bad areas of life myself and found my education on the things right outside my home to be horrible, i feel it teaches a blanket bullshit awnser of if you smoke pot you will die, you do coke you will die, join a gang you die, ect.  kids are smart and pick up when they are just being told textbook awnsers, more detail on how each indavidual drug will affect you and examples, having an exgang or a recouvered addict explain how much hell their life was might make more kids rethink their lives.




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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 6:24:33 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

i think legalising drugs is a very bad idea, i dont think it would phase gangs that much, profits for them would go down leading for the orginisations needing to expand which cuases gangwars as they start to overlap. if narcotics were lost as a profit they would adapt by some new avenue.


And what new avenue do you think that would be? 

quote:

having an exgang or a recouvered addict explain how much hell their life was might make more kids rethink their lives. 


They already do that, and they've been doing it for 40 years.  I remember the local prison bringing in convicts to talk to us, recovering addicts, medical student to talk about HIV/AIDS and drug use.  I went to high school in the late 80's and early 90's.  It didn't work then, and it won't work now.  Do you really think I gave a fuck what some convict had to say when I was 16? 

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 6:30:17 PM   
Crush


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


Prohibition didn't work, the war against drugs is not working.

Do you really think there would be any change in the abuse problems?

Were there any changes from before Prohibition, during Prohibition, to after Prohibition?



Prohibition did not work in terms of law enforcement. In terms of alcoholism and hospitalization of alcoholics, it did work.


It worked on making law-abiding citizens criminals.    Do you have a source for where Prohibition was effective as you state?



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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 7:02:30 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanityfull

i think legalising drugs is a very bad idea, i dont think it would phase gangs that much, profits for them would go down leading for the orginisations needing to expand which cuases gangwars as they start to overlap. if narcotics were lost as a profit they would adapt by some new avenue.



Expand into what areas?

When alcohol was illegal we had tremendous violence and gang warfare.

Then during the same period marijuana was made illegal.

So, naturally that became the new source of illicit income as alcohol was made legal again.

But what happens if that becomes legal too?



< Message edited by rulemylife -- 3/26/2009 7:03:35 PM >

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 7:21:25 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

Are there potential drug users/abusers waiting in the wings that would come to the forefront if currently illegal drugs were available legally in the US?




     Yes.  We would certainly see increased use, new users, and new addicts.  There would be a party, with a social cost.  What we we should be looking at in this, is the relative harm to society.  Is the cost of that party, and the 'hangover' that will follow, going to cause more harm to our society than is currently being done by the policies collectively known as the "War on Drugs?"

     I believe the benefits will outweigh that cost.  The billions of dollars we are going to be bringing in are going to fund a lot of education and treatment.  Not only that, legal drugs are going to be a lot cleaner and safer for the users.  Actual crystal methamphetamine is far less physically damaging than the hellbroth being sold as "speed."  We lose fewer heroin addicts to OD when the dosage is clear, and fewer to infection and disease from the present ways the drug is administered.  Drugs without the toxic impurities are going to produce an immediate health benefit.

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 7:30:05 PM   
NormalOutside


Posts: 622
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Status: offline 		Many things harm society and yet are seemingly immune to criticism. But drugs, oh my, they might harm society, and therefore nobody is allowed to use them!
Fast food's legal. Bleach is legal. The Federal Reserve is... well, for all intents and purposes, legal. These things hurt society but are immune to criticism.

The only person who can decide if you should or shouldn't do drugs is you. Nobody can tell you that you can't smoke up because society might miss out on your precious braincells. If anybody tries to use society as a reason why you shouldn't have the right to do whatever you want, including eating, smoking, or drinking anything found in the known universe, stab them in the face with a pencil as hard as you can, and run in the other direction.


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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 7:45:17 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus
Is legalizing drugs really the answer?


As cool as it sounds, no, I don't believe it is. We still have a problem in our culture with drinking responsibly, and droves of nicotine addicts still believe cigarettes are perfectly harmless—not only to themselves, but the people they would smoke around. The problem with many drugs is they are harshly addictive and damaging to personal / social health. I believe in decriminalizing possession of certain quantities, and perhaps regulating the use of some substances, but fully legalizing all recreative drug use is dangerous ground for the health of future generations.

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 7:51:39 PM   
Vanityfull


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Status: offline 		so your argument is if we legalise everything gangs will go away?

new avenue?? seriously?

ok.. gangs have been around longer than the word gangs, from horse theives to cyber crime, a gang/orginised crime is constantly adapting, its core goals are profit, exspansion and protection of members from external problems. if a gang can find a profit it will do what it can to get on that skeam. i am not going to list every crime that possibly could be commited by people, but the possibilities are pretty much endless,

yes eliminating drugs would cuase a major blow to their money, it wont stop them tho only give puase at best.

i agree with the thought of "who gives a fuck what the con says" its true, it wouldnt be a magical save all kids solution but i think its one of the more affective things that are doing to counter the drug problem.

i stand by my view of if drugs were legal  it would do nothing to counter them or those moving them, all it would do is  mean you wouldnt have to make the extra stop for the 8ball on your way home from the boozeshop. if anything it would make things worse, a substance like alchohal is one of the most common addictions considering its addictive properties compared to heavy drugs it seems like it should be way less common, i think it is so bad becuase it is legal, easyly obtainable and way more socially acseptable.


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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 7:54:13 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

Many things harm society and yet are seemingly immune to criticism. But drugs, oh my, they might harm society, and therefore nobody is allowed to use them!
Fast food's legal. Bleach is legal. The Federal Reserve is... well, for all intents and purposes, legal. These things hurt society but are immune to criticism.


Actually, elements in fast food (like MSG and transfats), chemical hazards in cleaners (like ammonia) or plastics and polymers (like Bisphenol A) have received a wide variety of criticism and activism. We as a society are slowly becoming aware of the cost of our many conveniences. As the cancer rates soar, it seems we are just now starting to seriously look into why.

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/26/2009 8:38:08 PM   
Vendaval


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I fully supportive legalizing medical marijuana and decriminalizing recreational use as well.  Now if someone is driving or operating dangerous machinery then DUI laws still apply.
 
After a few years to observe these results then it would be time to reconsider various drugs used for recreational use and how best to treat addiction as a health concern rather than a criminal activity.
 
If growers, dealers or users commit crimes such as robbery, rape and murder because of their addictions and/or sales of products they still need to be prosecuted and go to prison.

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/27/2009 12:56:10 AM   
calamitysandra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I'm for legalizing marijuana; I'm not for placing high taxes on it.  It would be extrememly difficult to tax a weed that is very easy to cultivate.  Yes we have federal laws against distilling alcohol, but distillation is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.  Growing marijuana is not a dangerous activity. 

I'm not for legalizing dangerous drugs like opiates, methamphetamines, and various hallucinogens.  I am for decriminalizing posession of it, and for requiring that a large amount of money be spent on drug rehabilitation, alternative sentencing, etc instead of prisons for non-violent drug offenders. 



That saved me some typing, thanks!

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/27/2009 8:36:47 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanityfull

so your argument is if we legalise everything gangs will go away?

new avenue?? seriously?
...........................................
i stand by my view of if drugs were legal  it would do nothing to counter them or those moving them, all it would do is  mean you wouldnt have to make the extra stop for the 8ball on your way home from the boozeshop. if anything it would make things worse, a substance like alchohal is one of the most common addictions considering its addictive properties compared to heavy drugs it seems like it should be way less common, i think it is so bad becuase it is legal, easyly obtainable and way more socially acseptable.



So, just out of curiosity, when was the last time you saw bootleggers running alcohol or speakeasies selling bathtub booze?

Heard anything about the descendants of the Capone gang battling over alcohol sales in Chicago?



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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/27/2009 8:39:49 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

As cool as it sounds, no, I don't believe it is. We still have a problem in our culture with drinking responsibly, and droves of nicotine addicts still believe cigarettes are perfectly harmless—not only to themselves, but the people they would smoke around. The problem with many drugs is they are harshly addictive and damaging to personal / social health. I believe in decriminalizing possession of certain quantities, and perhaps regulating the use of some substances, but fully legalizing all recreative drug use is dangerous ground for the health of future generations.


Because they won't be used otherwise?

The fact is they will be, and all we are doing is wasting money trying to prevent people's bad habits.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 3/27/2009 8:40:47 AM >

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/27/2009 11:05:50 AM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

As cool as it sounds, no, I don't believe it is. We still have a problem in our culture with drinking responsibly, and droves of nicotine addicts still believe cigarettes are perfectly harmless—not only to themselves, but the people they would smoke around. The problem with many drugs is they are harshly addictive and damaging to personal / social health. I believe in decriminalizing possession of certain quantities, and perhaps regulating the use of some substances, but fully legalizing all recreative drug use is dangerous ground for the health of future generations.


Because they won't be used otherwise?

The fact is they will be, and all we are doing is wasting money trying to prevent people's bad habits.



Hi Rule,

It's a matter of escalation, I feel. If you legalize the open distribution and use of harmful and extremely addictive narcotics and hallucinogens, you will inevitably see more consumption. Speaking monetarily, what would be the rehabilitative, familial, healthcare or overall societal cost if we just let the market flourish without regulation or law enforcement? It's too risky a platform of social experiment, I feel—but that's just my take on it.

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/27/2009 11:14:21 AM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
I'm for legalizing, taxing the snot out of it, and using proceeds for treatment centers...about 10-15% of users are gonna have problems, just like alcohol.


True, I have read reports that money spent for treatment is something like 7 times more effective than the same amount of money spent on law enforcement so that would seem to make sense.

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RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/27/2009 12:43:45 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		In the US, cocaine use to be avalible at your local candy store. It became an illegal substance for a reason. We souldn't let history repeat itself.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/27/2009 12:49:32 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		Fast Reply =
 
For some sobering statistics comparing alcohol and drug addiction in different U.S. metro areas go here -

http://www.drugabuse.gov/PDF/CEWG/AdvReport108.pdf

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/28/2009 7:53:52 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

Speaking monetarily, what would be the rehabilitative, familial, healthcare or overall societal cost if we just let the market flourish without regulation or law enforcement?



         Aside from the most ideological of Libertarians, and the most ignorant of stoners, I don't know of anyone who is talking about a market without regulation.  There are a great many ways to approach such regulation.  At the very least, we would place marijuana and psychedelic mushrooms under the same sorts of controls we apply to alcohol.  For the stimulants, depressants, and assorted more powerful chemicals, maybe a tiered system of control, where a user could get a coca/amphetamine-based Red Bull down at the liqour store, or waste an evening in an opium bar, but have some hoops to jump through to get good cocaine/meth, heroin, or LSD.

       I am very aware of the addictive and destructive powers of drugs on the illegal market, BUT I believe our current methods of addressing those problems is doing much more harm to our society than ending the prohibition would.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Legalizing Drugs. - 3/28/2009 8:09:58 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

Hi Rule,

It's a matter of escalation, I feel. If you legalize the open distribution and use of harmful and extremely addictive narcotics and hallucinogens, you will inevitably see more consumption. Speaking monetarily, what would be the rehabilitative, familial, healthcare or overall societal cost if we just let the market flourish without regulation or law enforcement? It's too risky a platform of social experiment, I feel—but that's just my take on it.


Yeah, I know, "the slippery slope" argument.

Did that happen with alcohol though?

Was the demand any greater after Prohibition ended?

And I'm not suggesting it should not be regulated, in fact I'm suggesting the opposite.

That we would have a new economic stimulus with what people are already using with the money currently kept "under the table".

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 3/28/2009 8:12:30 AM >

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