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Vice and virtue - 3/30/2009 5:02:34 PM

InTonguesslut

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‘Nobody wants to admit to this, but bad things will keep on happening. Maybe that’s because its all a chain, and a long time ago someone did the first bad thing, and that led someone else to do another bad thing, and so on. You know, like that game where you whisper a sentence into someone’s ear, and that person whispers it to someone else, and it all comes out wrong in the end.
But then again, maybe bad things happen because it’s the only way we can keep remembering what good is supposed to look like.’

From nineteen minutes by jodi picoult.

In the case of the first paragraph, someone does a bad thing, then someone does the same thing with minor detail changes and over time it varies more and more and becomes a distorted version of the original event, I can see it. After all don’t we learn a lot of things by imitation?
I learnt how to cook from my mum but over the years other influences have come in, and now I do things slightly differently to how she does. A version of Chinese whispers!! Therefore it would make sense that someone does something bad and over time the style or type of bad event is influenced by others, evolves, takes new shape?
The second paragraph makes me think of a de sade quote. ‘In order to know virtue, we must first acquaint ourselves with vice‘. Is this not also true?

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/30/2009 5:05:28 PM

Vendaval

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A good deal of contrast is necessary to fully appreciate either vice or virtue.

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/30/2009 5:53:42 PM

Termyn8or

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fr

The way I generally put it is that good would not exist without evil, or at least it would not be definable.

Note that paper and ink work together. Without the black, white has no meaning, and of course this context has nothing to do with race for those with the pilots lit on their flamethrowers. Or what if you had white ink and white paper, or black ink and black paper ? It is the contrast that allows us to define certain concepts. Also note that if one wanted to write on black paper, they would have to use white, opaque ink. That is a law of physics.

So basically if you live in a world of barbarians, and have never met a Man (or Woman) of peace and wisdom, to what would you compare ? Likewise in a society that has known no barbarism (yup, hard to find for sure, Tibet used to come close) in which everyone is peaceful and well learned, they would have no concept of barbarism.

Even thinking in Biblical terms, if there is no temptation, how can rightiousness(sp) be tested or defined ? Why was that serpent in the Garden Of Eden in the first place ?

T

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/30/2009 11:08:56 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

The second paragraph makes me think of a de sade quote. ‘In order to know virtue, we must first acquaint ourselves with vice‘. Is this not also true?

Personally, I believe it is more accurately put; "Without first knowing deceit, one cannot know truth".

As for 'good' and 'bad', I don't believe that is assessable, without first identifying a goal.

Kim

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 2:10:25 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

fr

The way I generally put it is that good would not exist without evil, or at least it would not be definable.

Note that paper and ink work together. Without the black, white has no meaning, and of course this context has nothing to do with race for those with the pilots lit on their flamethrowers. Or what if you had white ink and white paper, or black ink and black paper ? It is the contrast that allows us to define certain concepts. Also note that if one wanted to write on black paper, they would have to use white, opaque ink. That is a law of physics.

So basically if you live in a world of barbarians, and have never met a Man (or Woman) of peace and wisdom, to what would you compare ? Likewise in a society that has known no barbarism (yup, hard to find for sure, Tibet used to come close) in which everyone is peaceful and well learned, they would have no concept of barbarism.

Even thinking in Biblical terms, if there is no temptation, how can rightiousness(sp) be tested or defined ? Why was that serpent in the Garden Of Eden in the first place ?

T

Contrast being simply any visible difference, good and evil, vice and virtue are all subjective and the eye of the beholder.

Some will suggest there is no such thing as good and evil and by that certainly is no such traits as vice or virtue. We have been spoon fed among other utensils that there is good (godly) and evll (devilish) and all started by religion to get a foothold over society and then assume power. It worked.

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 6:44:19 AM

popeye1250

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It's the Ying and the Yang.

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 7:11:21 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

It's the yin and the yang.

There, corrected that for ya. No need to thank me

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 8:21:23 AM

Termyn8or

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I do believe the Yin/Yand thing is gender related, shall we revisit the Man/Woman thread ?

Of course I was 'speaking' metaphorically. Light and dark would have worked as well, but being 2009 and all I figured that metaphor to be more apt.

Of course in 2009 there are other possibilities. If you turn on your PC and the screen is all white or all black, or even all red or all green, what do you see ? Nothing, the thing is messed up. It doesn't work. That is the point. The concept does not work without some sort of delineation between the two. I have tried to use this metaphor with religious people, with varying degrees of success. One thinks I am the devil. Go figure.

T

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 8:23:42 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
One thinks I am the devil.

Some religious people see the Devil everywhere, and God nowhere. They have shit in their eyes, from the overflowing sewers in their minds.

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 4:10:03 PM

Vendaval

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Whoa! That's a great quote, kitten. Should be a signature line.

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 5:56:57 PM

kittinSol

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Thank you, Ven. Passion's inspiring.

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 9:30:47 PM

Termyn8or

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Well really, if there are no devils amongst us, how would we ever pass a test so to speak ?

T

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RE: Vice and virtue - 3/31/2009 9:34:32 PM

Owner59

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How about 'Vice vs Virtue'? ok .... 'Visa vs Virtue'?...I got a million of`m....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/31/2009 9:35:33 PM >

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