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Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 10:05:35 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		There have been recent threads on the subject of Impossible Tasks and I offten see the same things being said and I wished to offer a difference of oppinion.

Because I am not interested in someone's Mental Masturbation I decided to start a new thread rather than further derail the existing one.

So here is the Idea.

If I tell a submissive that I expect them to clean the corners of a 10 x 10 room and then leave then chained to an eyebolt in the enter of that room with a 2 foot lead I have just subjected my submissive to an impossible task, that is unless I actually wanted them to chew their own hands off at the wrist, but then they will have bled all over the carpet defeating the purpose of the task.  This is an Impossible Task...IF the expectations are real, if I actually expect these things be done and I will punish her for insubordinance then this is in my opinion setting a sub up for failure.

However there are many MANY ways to Erotically Torture someone on the same principals by useing tasks that cannot be completes or by giving an impossible stipulation on said task, If the expectations are simply to Witness the effort and instill a feeling of urgency on a submissive then I see this being something fun and far from negative.

One would say that an Interrogation scene where the submissive has done something but is unaware of what that thing is and is kept bound while asked questions until the sub can figure out what you are wanting them to confess too is a form of Setting them up for Failure but I know MANY women who come out of these things fully charged with how erotic it really was.

The Point here is do you see the difference between Setting up for Failure and Predicament Play.

How many would have an issue with me binding my submissive in a situatuation that causes them to shift for comfort but when they shift another part becomes uncomfortable? I see this is much the same way as many see what they call "Setting up for Failure" I bind my girl in a position that she can only hold for so long, when she shifts to relax that position another area is put into pain eventually when she has no stamina left she is forced to beg release.

For me this is not FAILURE it is a show of endurance and next time I hope she will last longer before she needs to be released. That is the fun for me in this, I want to see how much more, how much longer, and how much more intense my girl can get over a period of time.

This is of course not my only avenue of play but it is a Valid one.

How do you feel about Erotic Torture and Predicament Play?

Steel

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 10:18:24 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Sorry, if you give me a task that cannot be completed, then by default I've failed. And I am smart enough to know that I can't do it, as a result I won't even try, and I will think less of you. Lets say you have a 3,000 square foot home, all tiled, and you want it all cleaned with a toothbrush inside of an hour. That's impossible. It isn't enough time, plus my knees would give out way before the place was done.

As I said, I wouldn't even start it because I can see the futility. You may get off on her hurrying against the clock, but you had better know that she does also in such situations. What I do see as acceptable to produce an excuse for funishment is a blue sky task, something obviously ridiculous. Like stopping for gas, giving her a buck to buy a lottery ticket, with a laughing reminder that you want this to win the big one. But even with something like this, the dominant's attitude is important. If he seems angry for real, then I will be upset for real. If he's laughing while he tears it up, and says "oh no, you were a naughty girl, come here for your spanking" then I'll be able to enjoy it also.

Physical predicament is different than emotional sadism. Plus I know that when I am getting seriously uncomfortable, he will undo me, because he doesn't want any physical damage as a result. Too often, tops seem to think that emotional damage isn't real. Unfortunately for many of us, it's worse. And if the result is loss of trust in you, and resultant taking back of power since you have proved yourself untrustworthy with it, the top will suffer the fallout also.

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 10:23:04 AM   
lameduck13


Posts: 64
Joined: 4/5/2008
Status: offline 		As long as the sub knows this is what the out come is and she/he is acceptable to this I would not see a reason why one would not use this. If the top and bottom both gain satisfaction from it. There's a saying one man's ship is another man's dinghy. What works for you may not work for me, and vice versa.

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 10:25:58 AM   
pinkwind


Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline 		You can instill a sense of urgency, witness effort in possible tasks, just as well as the impossible, and still have a slave come out the other side with a sense of achievement at completion.

i am one who does not take kindly to being set up to fail, it puts me in the wrong emotional soace, and gives a false impression of what good service is meant to feel like.

Thankfully i have a Master who understands my POV and what would happen if he turned away from the path of realism and emotional stability onto a more warped one.



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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 10:35:45 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I think that predicament play is a cool idea.  Some things appeal to me more than others, but it's definitely a distinct thing from giving someone an impossible task at which they will inevitably fail. 
Can't take credit for the idea nor did it get to be acted out with myself and the other party but a male to whom I behaved in submission came up with a 'hunt' scenario that he apparently shared with lots of folks and that he proposed we play out one day.  I thought it was a fabulous idea and wish we'd gotten to do that.  :> 
  Davan

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 10:56:04 AM   
cbtok


Posts: 70
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		Impossible tasks are all about denial of someone's ability to accomplish things in the real world and I don't tend to play those games. I do not need to be invalidated as an achieving, valid person in order to be of service or in order to be happily owned.

I can relate a story:

I was handling the kitchen at a Ladies' Tea where all of the servers (male) were naked for the amusement of the Ladies. One invitee approached me as the person in charge of the kitchen and asked if I was in charge of the other servers. This is a very experienced lifestyle Domme, well known in her area. She is also breathtakingly beautiful. I smiled and answered, truthfully, that the woman who was in charge of training the servers was the person truly in charge.

She returned to the kitchen some time later with a cane and proceeded to thrash me (wonderfully!) as I bent over a hot stove. It took some considerable effort to regain my composure to continue service but I was successful and we all did a pretty good job with the less experienced of the servers tending to lose their composure whenever punishment was meted out.

I know the game she was playing. She wished to punish me, or include me in any punishment, whenever someone messed something up. I don't think I would ever place myself over another server in that kind of a situation where the women are in charge. Furthermore, I had absolutely no call to control the other servers. That simply was not my role.

Now, I do enjoy a good caning and I would say to her any time that, if she would like to apply a cane to me, I would be very glad of it. I don't think that "bad behavior" or failure should necessarily be a part of the very enjoyable endorphin rush.

If you want something done, please give me possible tasks. Let me please you and do something useful that you will benefit from. If you want to torment me, place me in predicament bondage. Put me in chastity and unmercifully tease me while I can not relieve myself. Cane me until I bleed and play-pierce my nipples for your amusement. Interrogate me and demand I tell you "the secret," even though I am gagged and cannot tell you anything. But, please don't give me an impossible task, unless you don't intend to see it done.

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 11:55:59 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		It must be a full moon.  If she cannot complete the task,  she cannot please you, nor get the pleasure of serving because she has failed.  What part of that dont you understand??? 

I have no clue why every couple of months this topic comes up with a different twist.  If you wanna set someone up to fail Rock ON.  However it's plain wrong to treat "anybody" that way,  let alone someone you love or care for.

Heres the task <insert here> I know your going to fail! I like watching ppl fail!!!  Now I'm gonna punish you for failing!!!
Makes perfect sense to me

BadOne





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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 11:58:15 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		See and that is the jist of it.

It brings me Pleasure to see someone doing their best, weather it is done or not. Even when I give a requirement for something tro be done under timeline (A Rarity for me) I will often ignore that time line if they are genuinely doing their best.

Des the situation you bring up is an Extreme one and one that I agree is futile but not all "Immpossible Tasks" are actually Impossible or even tasks for that matter many are things I wand done for my amusement. And if I recall correctly much of what we do is recreation for amusement and enjoyment purposes.

What I think is hillarious is that I OFTEN see subs working out impossible tasks and they don't even know it. Such as calling ones self a No Limits Slave, Well I am sure they would fail that one should the Master bring out the Chainsaw and the Iodine. Or More commonly the asking other people how to better please their own Master.... Talk about a project in the realm of impossible.

The issue I have is with the amount of venom that other subs will jump on the band wagon when given a "PRECEIVED" impossible task is that the dominants goal is that you fail. My Goal is never to have my submissive fail but to see where she may need help in how she attacks a project.

Andi has problems dealing with multiple tasks at the same time, she will start one and move to another then another and another without finishing any of them so she works her ass off all day and gets NOTHING done. This is why I will tell her I want the house clean and see how she goes about it and then adjust.

This is not setting a sub up for failure it's a matter of learning how the process tasks.

And sometimes it really is fun to just watch her try to figure things out and end up lost.

Steel

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 12:00:51 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

It must be a full moon.  If she cannot complete the task,  she cannot please you, nor get the pleasure of serving because she has failed.  What part of that dont you understand??? 

I have no clue why every couple of months this topic comes up with a different twist.  If you wanna set someone up to fail Rock ON.  However it's plain wrong to treat "anybody" that way,  let alone someone you love or care for.

Heres the task <insert here> I know your going to fail! I like watching ppl fail!!!  Now I'm gonna punish you for failing!!!
Makes perfect sense to me

BadOne


And for the life of me I can't see how someone would think that is all there is to the submissive desire or the Dominant pleasure.

If this life really is that cut in dry, you'll have to excuse me cause I don't want any fucking part of that.

Steel

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 12:04:50 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Yeah, I think there is a big difference between assigning an impossible task, and engaging in various forms of sadism with a willing parnter.

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 12:35:19 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

It must be a full moon.  If she cannot complete the task,  she cannot please you, nor get the pleasure of serving because she has failed.  What part of that dont you understand??? 

I have no clue why every couple of months this topic comes up with a different twist.  If you wanna set someone up to fail Rock ON.  However it's plain wrong to treat "anybody" that way,  let alone someone you love or care for.

Heres the task <insert here> I know your going to fail! I like watching ppl fail!!!  Now I'm gonna punish you for failing!!!
Makes perfect sense to me

BadOne


And for the life of me I can't see how someone would think that is all there is to the submissive desire or the Dominant pleasure.

If this life really is that cut in dry, you'll have to excuse me cause I don't want any fucking part of that.

Steel


Uh dude I never said that re sub desire.  You are correct about dom pleasure.  I am NOT going to have her do something I dislike  I know seems crazy but that's the way I roll.

BadOne


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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 12:42:04 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

It must be a full moon.  If she cannot complete the task,  she cannot please you, nor get the pleasure of serving because she has failed.  What part of that dont you understand??? 


Your words bro Not Mine.

Steel

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 12:46:20 PM   
pinkwind


Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline 		There are times when, for the best of reasons, i might be unable to complete a task either i could generally be expected to complete, or others would have little problem with, and those times are when it is good to be appreciated for the effort i undoubtedly applied to the task, complete or not.

i am an intelligent woman, and if Andy were to think up a task impossible for me to accomplish it would not take a leap of faith to understand that i could see it for what it was, an opportunity for me to fail no matter how hard i tried. To get pleasure out of the distress of both being set up in the first place, as well as in my trying and knowing i would fail, and my knowing it pleased to see me fail, that would leave me adrift, in a negative space from which it could be hard to come back from. Is that also pleasurable?

Thankfully, i am not set up to fail, but have a Master with a realistic approach to life and his relationship with me. Life can conspire well enough without someone who purports to have my best interests at heart to drive me into a possibly damaging downward emotional spiral.




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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 12:56:29 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		pinkwind,

Could you see no other reason for the task to be applied?

I mean I believe I expressed a very valid reason one would be asked to do something that they were not actually expected to do. I want to see how you go about the Process of completeing a daunting task.

I mean this whole Idea of Impossible tasks just makes my head spin. I can see being upset if I beat the hell out of her everytime she failed to comeplete something I didn't think she could complete that would be pretty messed up, however if when I finally stopped her from what she was doing to process what I had noticed and discussed better ways of going about addressing tasks from this point on how is this in any way a negative thing?

Isn't that what Submissives want from thier Master? Guidance and Direction?

Seriously I am trying to understand but so far all I am getting are these extremes without follow through. With all of the examples that have been offered WHAT IS THE CONTEXT. What is the before and the after? And can't you see it being done differently than the Nasty picture you are painting in your head?

Steel

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 12:57:18 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline 		It seems a lot of people don't seem to get that "impossible task-setting" is a bit of fun... part of play. And the "punishment" a sub receives for not being able to complete said impossible task is also part of play.

Personally, I think impossible tasks are amazingly enjoyable. I've been set a few in the past, and part of the fun is the rush to get something done, the desperation as you see the time ticking away... it's like intense foreplay. And the punishment is the climax.

I was once told to stand on my tiptoes until my Top had reached the number she'd decided on in her head. Of course, she didn't tell me the number, so I just had to hold out as long as I could. Turned out the number was two thousand. There was no way I was going to reach that and she knew it, but I had fun trying... pushing myself just that little bit further, then further still until I just couldn't anymore. And I knew exactly what game she was playing.

I think there is definitely a place for it... you just have to make sure your sub is aware of the rules.

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 2:00:54 PM   
LovingDom86


Posts: 27
Joined: 2/16/2009
Status: offline 		I posted a short example in one of the similar threads the OP may have been talking about.  Which of course I cannot find, so I will recreate the idea.

The sub is naked, bound at the wrists (behind the back) and loosely bound at the ankles, and is given the task of taking objects (chocolates, for example) one by one from a plate held by her Dom on the couch, to a plate on the kitchen table, all within a certain amount of time.  Now, something important to my view of this abstract is that both are smiling and giggling through the whole thing.  I'm not sure how I would feel if it were serious or dark.  Anyways the sub enjoys the pleasure of giving her all against a difficult task, and fighting the clock which often escalates the thrill and struggle!  Of course, the Dom keeps putting more chocolates on his plate when the sub's back is turned, and there are of course spankings when one is dropped or doesnt make the kitchen plate, etc. 

So, in the end, yes; both parties know the sub will "fail" as in not achieve the goal of her task.  To me, it suggests more the thrill, the struggle within safety, the primal/primitive squirming against impending doom. 

Of course, as with just about anything in the realm of BDSM, this depends on the individuals and their feelings/limits/desires.  Many submissives find the struggle against a no-win scenario incredibly arousing, and if this pleasure can be experienced in a SSC environment (emphasis on the safe and consensual) then what Dom on earth would deny their sub of such a thrill?!

Just thoughts:)

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 2:15:39 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		EXACTLY !!!!!!!

Sometime we get so caught up in the CONCEPT of an Idea we fail to realize that it can be interpereted many different ways and even by the same person at different times.

I joke around with andi all the time "I'm Gunna Punish You!!!!" Tee he Tee he. And andi isn't some vapid insecure puddle of Goo. When it's real it's OBVIOUS.

Steel

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 4:17:23 PM   
curiousINct


Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline 		This thread has had me thinking all day, as the term was new-to-me. Thanks Steel.

I see a definite distinction between a failure that leads to disappointment (in and of ourselves) and setting the bar too high as a form of play. It sounds like fun to me, but I love challenges. There's a rush that comes with surprising yourself by doing better than you expected, or if something is just completely impossible, I imagine it would be pretty funny for all involved.

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 4:41:37 PM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
Status: offline 		Steel,

I think the problem is there some that just don't enjoy "punishment" play.  Personally, I think it can be a lot of fun.  I have never had a sub that could not tell when we were playing and when I was pissed for real.  I have been known to make a list of "misbehaviors" that the sub will get spanked for later.  These are silly little things and I will say something like I'm adding that to your list.  Frankly since I am drawn to the somewhat playfully bratty subs this works well.  He/she does something in a playful bratty manner and I say I am adding it to your list. Never, have I had a sub think when they were spanked for this list that it was a real punishment.  And I think giving a task that would be nearly impossible, but maybe (slim maybe) could be done would be fun.  If my sub can't tell when we are playing and when I am mad, we have some serious problems in our relationship that have nothing to do with playing games.

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RE: Erotic Torture Vs. Impossible Task - 4/2/2009 4:48:56 PM   
MasterDarkSadist


Posts: 60
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline 		I think that you have a good idea, but you are missing the point.

Predicament play is not an "impossible task."  The reason that a sub can enjoy predicament play, and not an impossible task is simple.  A sub wants to please you.  Predicament play can be fun because it is essentially a mind game.  An impossible task makes a Dominant look like a fool.  They can appear very similar, however they are quite different in feel and intent.

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