RE: Wrongness = Hotness?

RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (Full Version)

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porcelaine -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/4/2009 10:03:50 AM)
the sexual acts i enjoy appeal to me merely because they are expression of my desires. while some may be considered morally wrong or downright lewd, that isn't the driving force for my attraction or participation in the act. i simply like it. porcelaine

DemonKia -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/4/2009 12:14:50 PM)
I want to thank everyone for participating in this thread, the thoughts & comments fascinate & enlighten me, & I appreciate all who share . . . . . . quote: ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian I've heard it said the Devil keeps the church in business, and vice versa. Okay, first, LOL . . . . . wink . . . . You better believe it . . . .. lol quote: ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian Without a doubt, there is a strong element of seduction in the human mind for anything forbidden, particularly when is comes to sexuality. I believe you are correct in stating "wrongness" is one of the primary cogs motivating "kink", but this idea rings somewhat hollow for some, for what in the end constitutes a thrill ride is not the pursuit. For others, these acts are not a rebellion against religion or law; it is the religion and law of their flesh and bones, and it took some degree of actualization—not necessarily rebellion for the ulterior sake of pleasure—to understand this. So in this light of thinking, sometimes submitting to or dominating another isn't a matter of this feels so wrong, but a matter of this feels right—this is who and what I am. I'm guessing that's a subtle flip of the coin on this issue for some, but seems relevant to me. Then, I wanted to say that I can balance two (or more) opposing feelings at once in my pointy lil head, & I suspect I'm not the only one . . . . . . Which is to say, I have had the experience of feeling both sets of emotions (as described above) -- 'this is so naughty & hot' & 'this is right where I belong' -- simultaneously . .. . . . So I guess I don't see a lot of 'opposing' forces as meaning one-or-the-other . . . . Which, I guesss, is one of the reasons I'm drawn to reading the 'Tao', as it's all about the struggle to find a balance between all of the many 'oppositionals' going on inside of the human animal . . .. .. FYI . . . . Well, that, & I like the poetry . . . .. lol Best, The Demon, Kia

StormsSlave -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/4/2009 12:31:59 PM)
Sex has never really been a taboo thing in my life, even as a teenager, though I have had more intense orgasms doing "forbidden" things, for sure...like in the corner of a crowded room or under the table at a restaurant. The element of excitement generated by the fear is a well known intensifier.

IronBear -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/4/2009 2:57:07 PM)
Some of my most memorable sexual experiences have been when doing something which society thinks is "wrong".

MarcEsadrian -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/4/2009 4:39:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DemonKia quote: ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian I've heard it said the Devil keeps the church in business, and vice versa. Okay, first, LOL . . . . . wink . . . . You better believe it . . . .. lol Then, I wanted to say that I can balance two (or more) opposing feelings at once in my pointy lil head, & I suspect I'm not the only one . . . . . . Which is to say, I have had the experience of feeling both sets of emotions (as described above) -- 'this is so naughty & hot' & 'this is right where I belong' -- simultaneously . .. . . . So I guess I don't see a lot of 'opposing' forces as meaning one-or-the-other . . . . Which, I guesss, is one of the reasons I'm drawn to reading the 'Tao', as it's all about the struggle to find a balance between all of the many 'oppositionals' going on inside of the human animal . . .. .. FYI . . . . Well, that, & I like the poetry . . . .. lol Certainly the two fit quite nicely together, though I believe plenty of us have seen the contest of transient amusement vs. serious desire play out to its eventual (but not always disappointing) conclusion. Thrill riders seeking the next sin are useful and fun in their own way, but it's those who want to become denizens of a way of life that have interested me far more. Within such people there's probably always an element of love for their chosen path because its different, but there just has to be more in mind and spirit than what in the end equates to rebellion against social norms, and I think there is a good case for the natural proclivity of the human animal (now that you bring that creature up) to manifest the instinct of dominance and submission through a primitive and lasting codification, an instinct inside us which is blind to passing societies and their evolving conventions.

Jeptha -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/4/2009 7:54:52 PM)
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive at all. But, obviously some people think it's ridiculous to regard sex of any sort as "dirty" or "naughty" in the first place. So for them, channeling or controlling or even creating desire in this way would have no effect, and be of no interest. I was wondering today if the japanese crank out such weird porn because their culture at one time also featured highly codified, strict and stringent elements, like our own victorianism or puritanism - highly repressive elements.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/4/2009 9:51:07 PM)
Well, he said "morally wrong," and I conflated that with "taboo." I agree with you that there's a difference. I feel more strongly about avoiding people who are doing things they think are "morally wrong," but I'd still tend to avoid people who are doing things they think are "taboo." There's a difference between being wired for a kind of sex that is taboo and being wired for a kind of sex BECAUSE it's taboo. And it's the latter type that I'd avoid, because I don't think that provides a solid basis for a long-term relationship. I'd feel like a service top: someone who fulfills their fantasies/fetishes and nothing more. Besides, taboos change. What do you do when you're her Nazi dom and her taboo changes next month to, I don't know, gang bangs? quote: ORIGINAL: kidwithknife quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster That's depressing if it's true. (I don't pretend to know most people in the BDSM lifestyle and therefore can't make these kinds of claims.) I would have thought most people involved in BDSM feel that they're wired for it and need it for their emotional and psychological well-being, not that they're just getting off on something they think is morally wrong. For what it's worth, I'd be pretty wary of getting involved with someone whose primary sexual motivation for BDSM is to get off on taboo sex. That's called living a fantasy, and it's not a basis for a lasting relationship. What if they feel they're wired for/need to have taboo feeling sex? I certainly think there are some kinks that definitely take their power from the feeling of taboo. Religious play would be an obvious example. And I don't see how doing something because it gets you off is in anyway a bad thing. It's not the only thing needed for a successful relationship. But it's a pretty important part all the same. I'd agree with you on "morally wrong" though. I don't think that's the same as something feeling taboo or naughty, as outlined in the OP. If something genuinely feels morally wrong to me, I absolutely shouldn't do it.

Jeptha -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/5/2009 9:47:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster ....Besides, taboos change. What do you do when you're her Nazi dom and her taboo changes next month to, I don't know, gang bangs? Well, a lot of edgy activity stuff does seem sort of trendy to me. But I'm on the outside looking in on that stuff, generally, so I try to withhold judgment (or at least be aware that what judgment I may inadvertently make quite likely wouldn't hold water.) But what we're talking about here, I think, is how desire is perceived and dealt with: it's desire itself that is regarded as perverse (or is perverted.) The "form" that that takes is sort of incidental. It's just put into whatever form seems fitting for perverse things. Perverse is as perverse does. That's why I think it's more a function, or a byproduct, of repression. That's my theory, anyway. They say (or maybe it's just Freud) that the repressed will return in one form or another. I think this is just a conscious way of giving it form, or of playing with those forms. When I was young, my best friend was Catholic. One day, we drew pictures of naked women with our crayons. He hid his in a tear in the fabric of the family couch. Thought that was a genius hiding place. But, no; he was discovered right away, and reprimanded strongly, told that was bad, etc. I, more smartly, hid my drawings under a neighbor's porch, so that they might not be so easily traced to me if discovered. Repression at work! Another thing that interested me when I first discovered them...This used to be a much more sexually repressed society (advertising and modern communication has shifted things a bit), I think, and yet there were adult shops. I thought it was really weird that these masturbatoriums were allowed to exist. It's interesting to me how they were sort of tacitly, yet unexplicitly (they were often excluded from listing in telephone books, for example), acknowledged, particularly in the early days. I'm not sure what it is, but there's something wiggy there, man. Again, one of those things that 90% of you could give a rat's ass about, but I'd like to see a coffee table book on the subject.

DavanKael -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/5/2009 10:13:49 AM)
Other than it being a facet of my sexuality that hasn't gotten as much time as 'vanilla' stuff, no, I don't think that peoples' perception of 'naughtiness' of bdsm has much, if anything, to do with its appeal for me. Now, is it sometimes fun to offend the hellout of smallminds going out looking 'freaky'...sure, but it doesn't have the kick it did when I was 13. I am far more self-possessed than that. I have been rifling through the brain to consider some fantasies that I have that offer more kick because they're taboo. THere are a few but an act being taboo isn't generally much of a focus for me. Davan

DemonKia -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/5/2009 3:07:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster ....Besides, taboos change. What do you do when you're her Nazi dom and her taboo changes next month to, I don't know, gang bangs? quote: ORIGINAL: Jeptha . . . clip . . . Again, one of those things that 90% of you could give a rat's ass about, but I'd like to see a coffee table book on the subject. Thanks for the thoughtful replies on this topic . . . . . . For me, exploring my kinky-self is part of a more generalized & ongoing self-exploration & growth thing -- I could say that one of my 'kicks' is change, especially changing me . . .. . So I have a hard time relating to the notion of permanently 'fixed' self that I hear sometimes in what others say . . . . . The activities I'm interested in can, & do, change -- both in my vanilla life, & even more in my kink life, as I'm much newer to my kink life than the 'nilla . ... . . Part of exploring my sexuality & my kink is finding, releasing, & working with my repressed sexual stuff, which can & does lead to changes in what I do / see / feel / etc . .. . . . . &, yeah, Jeptha, I know what you mean about old-skool 'adult stores' with their sticky floors & peep shows, I was fascinated in my 'dissolute youth' with those emporiums of 'nastiness' tacitly tolerated by the puritan 'outside' world, as well as all the other little bits of sexuality that peaked into the 'non-sexual' mainstream -- I used to find the 'adult movie' ads in the regular papers, looking at them gave me thrill, & similar with seeing the adult movie theater's signage . ... . . Again, big thanks to all those who've participated in this thread, I always appreciate hearing the diversity of experiences & perspectives . ... .

DarkFury -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/5/2009 3:30:55 PM)
I think that for many of us, myself included, we do enjoy that extra level of "naughtiness" or "taboo" that gives the ooomph to the arousal. I know for someone like me, who in many ways, actively seeks the wrongness or taboo in my sexual practices. It is the risk of being caught engaging in public sex or engaging in sexual activities which usually is considered an activity that should be behind closed doors and in the bedroom. I see this also applies to the kink aspect in me.

Prinsexx -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/6/2009 2:08:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DemonKia I noticed that he was on to something, the idea / feeling of 'naughtiness' does add some sizzle to my sex stuff . . . . . . . . Yes. I agree. I don't feel shame much these days... my feelings of self-worth thankfully so intact that I feel proud even of my spreading hips and belly....I don't feel guilt....and so it's very difficult for me to gey 'sincerely punished' for anything because I am a 'good girl'... SO I forget things...

CreativeDominant -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/6/2009 7:41:01 AM)
I too enjoy the "naughtiness" inherent in some acts, including most BDSM play. I enjoy the "taboo" aspect, especially in today's "egalitarian" society of an "inequality within the equality/power exchange" D/s dynamic. If it was the driving force, I'd have become bored but as one more additional element that goes into making D/s and BDSM and my sexuality fully rounded for ME, it works. I love anal sex...but I love it for many reasons...the tightness, the heat of her anal sheath, the supplication of her, the visual aspect of my cock moving in and out of a hole that it is "not supposed" to be in, the groans of delight, the whimpers of her in pain, the occasional spasm of muscles in rebellion, her revelry in her "slutty" enjoyment of a "forbidden" act...shown by the way she begins to pump back or up at me and her begging for "more...harder", the appearance of sweat on myself and her and knowing that the sweat is not just there from our efforts but from a hormonal excitement over the act itself.

Jeptha -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/6/2009 10:52:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DemonKia ....&, yeah, Jeptha, I know what you mean about old-skool 'adult stores' with their sticky floors & peep shows, I was fascinated in my 'dissolute youth' with those emporiums of 'nastiness' tacitly tolerated by the puritan 'outside' world, as well as all the other little bits of sexuality that peaked into the 'non-sexual' mainstream -- I used to find the 'adult movie' ads in the regular papers, looking at them gave me thrill, & similar with seeing the adult movie theater's signage . ... . . There was this one ancient place out on the edge of town that we used to call "The Pink Porno Barn"...I couldn't have devised a more perfect set if I had a Hollywood prop department at my disposal. It was a sort of labyrinth of cheap plywood booths. It was pitch dark, the little booths were made of nicked plywood that had been carved into for decades (the walls have eyes!...and some of them had penises...) There was no sound except from the various porn channels, but that was pretty low volume. It did not drown out the loud creaking and groaning of the floor as men trolled slowly around outside like ghosts trodding an eternal round. It was like one of the more innocuous circles of hell in Dante's Inferno. Or a haunted funhouse. It was a little creepy, spooky and fun, and I could play a sort of depraved Vincent Price taking my sub there.

DemonKia -> RE: Wrongness = Hotness? (4/6/2009 3:38:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeptha There was this one ancient place out on the edge of town that we used to call "The Pink Porno Barn"...I couldn't have devised a more perfect set if I had a Hollywood prop department at my disposal. It was a sort of labyrinth of cheap plywood booths. It was pitch dark, the little booths were made of nicked plywood that had been carved into for decades (the walls have eyes!...and some of them had penises...) There was no sound except from the various porn channels, but that was pretty low volume. It did not drown out the loud creaking and groaning of the floor as men trolled slowly around outside like ghosts trodding an eternal round. It was like one of the more innocuous circles of hell in Dante's Inferno. Or a haunted funhouse. It was a little creepy, spooky and fun, and I could play a sort of depraved Vincent Price taking my sub there. lol . . . Awesome, how fun . . . . I remember how exciting it was when I finally got to actually go into one of those old-skool adult stores . . . . The clean, well-lit, thoughtfully organized sex & fetish emporia in the Bay Area (for example) are great & thrilling on their own, but a part of me still yearns for there to be peep shows in the back & shamefaced patrons out front, hurrying away with their anonymous paper bags full of sin . . .. . [:D]

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