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Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/3/2009 11:05:33 PM

DemonKia

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I had a lover who started life out as a fundamentalist religious type & then had a coupla epiphanic summers in his young adult life & went from seminary student to radical atheist lefty type . . .. . He told me that he noticed that his orgasms were 'better' before, when sex was something shameful & bad that he shouldn't be doing, & that once his head was in a 'sex is okay' space it wasn't quite as much fun . . . .

I found this idea a little threatening & upsetting at first, cuz I've worked at being unashamed about my sex stuff . . . . But as time wore on, I noticed that he was on to something, the idea / feeling of 'naughtiness' does add some sizzle to my sex stuff . . . .

& as I've explored BDSM this notion has really gripped me as it being a part of the engine that drives kink & fetish, that the feelings of 'naughtiness' & 'wrongness' are part of what we're playing with, that that process is part of what adds the extra zing . . . . . . .

As usual, I'm curious how y'all see this idea . . . . .

Best,
The Demon, Kia

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 4/3/2009 11:06:07 PM >

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/3/2009 11:12:11 PM

SteelofUtah

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From: St George Utah
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I Love Having Anal Sex with women.

Why?

Because it seems no matter how many times I've done it and no matter with how many women it's always portrayed as Naughty and "Not Normal Sex"

We can do it every night for a Month and it is always still considered Naughty.

I think I get off on that aspect.

if tomorrow everyone saw anal sex as a reasonable alternative to vaginal sex I think I might loose SOME of my draw to it but would still partisipate I would hope.

Does that answer your question or did I just share too much?

Steel

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/3/2009 11:29:11 PM

DemonKia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Does that answer your question or did I just share too much?

Steel

Most excellent, exactly the kinda idea I'm thinking of, thank you . . . . .

& yeah, it's not that the naughtiness is all of the extra kick, just that it does give an extra little oomph . .. . .

& for the record, there's no such thing as 'too much info' for me . . . . . If I could have a 'superpower' I'd pick 'being able to be undetectable at will' & I'd go watch what people do when they don't think anyone's around; super-voyeur, I guess . .. . . .

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 4/3/2009 11:33:28 PM >

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/3/2009 11:34:40 PM

Vanityfull

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i was raised in a very sexually repressed lifestyle untill i found my own personal views, i think the enitial(donno spelling, means first) step outside of a closed repressed culture gives a kinda coming out that is a rush, when i first kissed a guy i found it was very erosing becuase of how liberating it was, over time this faded as i became more secure with my sexuality and it became common for me to get some man lovin, i think the erosal from the liberation fades but not from the actual actions. that and if it is with kinks i find mine personally have grown, faded and changed over the years so that could be part of it.. (total dejavu right now... odd never got it from typing)

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/3/2009 11:48:10 PM

MasterRaid

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Doing what is "Morally Wrong" is the driving force behind most of the BDSM lifestyle. Not all but most. Personally I enjoy nearly anything that is what is considered not proper or whould make the bible thumpers gasp. The one that really warms My heart is the taking of innocence. Opening some sexually repressed librarian type or 9 to 5er who's life and upbringing would call what I do as sexual deviance or moral deprived. Because when I get done I see the gambit of emotions and mental voyage of self realization that all this time they were missing that thing being the goody two shoes. That initial shock of shame in thier faces gives Me energy like lighting.

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/3/2009 11:57:33 PM

Lordandmaster

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That's depressing if it's true. (I don't pretend to know most people in the BDSM lifestyle and therefore can't make these kinds of claims.) I would have thought most people involved in BDSM feel that they're wired for it and need it for their emotional and psychological well-being, not that they're just getting off on something they think is morally wrong.

For what it's worth, I'd be pretty wary of getting involved with someone whose primary sexual motivation for BDSM is to get off on taboo sex. That's called living a fantasy, and it's not a basis for a lasting relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRaid

Doing what is "Morally Wrong" is the driving force behind most of the BDSM lifestyle.

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 12:07:15 AM

MasterRaid

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Well I am curious what is it you do with your sub?
And I said I enjoy things that are not considered proper. I never said that is ALL I enjoy.

< Message edited by MasterRaid -- 4/4/2009 12:11:48 AM >

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 1:33:33 AM

kidwithknife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

That's depressing if it's true. (I don't pretend to know most people in the BDSM lifestyle and therefore can't make these kinds of claims.) I would have thought most people involved in BDSM feel that they're wired for it and need it for their emotional and psychological well-being, not that they're just getting off on something they think is morally wrong.

For what it's worth, I'd be pretty wary of getting involved with someone whose primary sexual motivation for BDSM is to get off on taboo sex. That's called living a fantasy, and it's not a basis for a lasting relationship.

What if they feel they're wired for/need to have taboo feeling sex? I certainly think there are some kinks that definitely take their power from the feeling of taboo. Religious play would be an obvious example. And I don't see how doing something because it gets you off is in anyway a bad thing. It's not the only thing needed for a successful relationship. But it's a pretty important part all the same.

I'd agree with you on "morally wrong" though. I don't think that's the same as something feeling taboo or naughty, as outlined in the OP. If something genuinely feels morally wrong to me, I absolutely shouldn't do it.

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 2:41:12 AM

DemonKia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

What if they feel they're wired for/need to have taboo feeling sex? I certainly think there are some kinks that definitely take their power from the feeling of taboo. Religious play would be an obvious example. And I don't see how doing something because it gets you off is in anyway a bad thing. It's not the only thing needed for a successful relationship. But it's a pretty important part all the same.

I'd agree with you on "morally wrong" though. I don't think that's the same as something feeling taboo or naughty, as outlined in the OP. If something genuinely feels morally wrong to me, I absolutely shouldn't do it.

A necessary distinction, thank you, between the mildly naughty end of the spectrum & the absolutely immoral end . . . .

For instance, I'm pretty sure that my feminist background contributes to the hotness of submitting to a man -- it's taboo & naughty . . . . .

But doing something that violates my moral code would also be a turn off . . . . . So, selling my lady friends into real slavery, as an example, would be a libido killer for me . . . . .

So, there's clearly some kind of tipping point between those ends of the continuum . ... . .

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 4:50:21 AM

chamberqueen

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As a Domme I worked with a lot of men interested in being sissified. A lot of the thrill for the majority of them was in doing something "forbidden". Having me tell them to wear panties to a session, however, was a lot different than outing them to their coworkers. It takes the right balance when playing with areas considered outside of the norm to keep the thrill in it and not to have it become something repugnant.

For some, the "forbidden" can be very small things. An example is a very straight laced and modest person being called a slut. Being called a slut by your Master during a session is one thing and can be very hot, releasing things inside of you that you didn't know you possessed. Being called a slut in an email from a stranger is something totally different and can fall into sheer repugnance. (That's not to say that there aren't some who would enjoy it - I'm just using it as an example.)

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 6:36:46 AM

DesFIP

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I wouldn't know since sex for me has never been morally wrong in and of itself. My moral values come in how it is expressed. You don't manipulate people for sex, you don't drug them and rape them when they are unable to protect themselves, you don't lie about not having an STD.

So how can I know if it is better when it is forbidden when it never was forbidden? I think of it as food. Eating a piece of chocolate cake is not wrong. Eating only that and no protein, no whole grains, no fruit and veggies is wrong, is unhealthy. Same with sex. How you choose to indulge your appetite can be unhealthy for you and your partner and that's to be avoided.

But I disagree categorically with the poster who said BDSM is taboo. Because it may be so for him, it isn't for everyone else.

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 7:09:02 AM

VeryNastyDom

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I am reminded of the famous interview with Mae West.

Interviewer: Miss West, do you think sex is dirty?
Mae West: It is if you do it right!

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 7:12:04 AM

MasterRaid

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I am speaking in societies Definition of BDSM and the Moralities of it. To Me it is not wrong, to Me BDSM is healthy. But to society at large it is not the norm, also many things in BDSM are considered a Deviant behavior. Now what I was referring to is when people like us feel that the activities we undertake make us feel good and we wiegh those activities against what society says is wrong, that is where the excitement comes in. You get a small rush from it feeling it is bad (in a naughty way not a depressing or repulsing one) and that exploration is where the gratification comes in. Not the best explination but it will have to suffice as I just came back from a medical appointment and I am mildly Medicated right now so I am going back to enjoy this experience before it wears off. HaHa.........

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First rule in dealing with the Devil............................
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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 7:17:48 AM

DesFIP

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I'm not sure what 'society at large' you live in. Because to a native New Yorker, a range of sexual expression is normal. Now if you live in a small town in Arkansas, I will grant that your experiences are different. Hell, a Wiccan there would be considered wrong.

What I am saying is that in my background, sex was not considered wrong in and of itself, nor any particular expression thereof. It is how you used it that makes it wrong. Which means that if with people old enough and capable enough of giving informed consent, who do give consent, it isn't wrong. Doing it to someone underage or unable of understanding, doing it against their will makes it wrong.

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 7:25:20 AM

MasterRaid

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My wife is a native New Yorker as is her family. 90% of what she and I do is wrong by her family standards. It is not limited to geographics but more how one is raised by their parents and the values of the community they travel in. I agree that now more and more we are accepted but would you in a coffee and cake discussion with someone you just met inform them you have a Master and get bound on a regular basis for your pleasure or would you desire to withold that info?

_____________________________

First rule in dealing with the Devil............................
..................................................................DON'T!

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 8:36:36 AM

Missokyst

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Since I began doing this when I first had sex it is normal activity for me. But normal in a way that crosses the twisted nature of what I like, with the very tradtional aspect of keeping sex behind closed doors.
Being restrained? Normal. What was left of my virginity was taken that way.
Being spanked or disciplined? Well.. sort of not normal as I never had that growing up.
Anal, oral.. fill everything.. well hell yes that is normal! LOL didn't we all try these things while tossing and turning at night trying to sleep when we were young? I like to think so.. Normal.. right?
But, people didn't talk about this much when I was young. When I was introduced to consensual sex we still didn't talk about it. We did it.. I thought everyone did it the same way, bound, restrained, poked, prodded, spanked. I thought it was what sex was...lol and then I found out it was not.

As I have often stated, I find the idea of making BDSM socially acceptable to the masses... abhorrent. Heck... my mom is nilla, and it bothered me when she (at age 60) told me my dad had been a 2 minute lover. She had no idea what an orgasm felt like. TMI!!! I don't want to know that about my parents.
I don't want to think that Mrs Dixon the local kindergarden teacher is being bound up nightly and forced to suck dick. I don't want to know Mr Garble the mechanic is putting his fingers (dirty nails and all) into Mr Dilhouly's ass before the butt plug goes in.
For me, making this stuff normal is not the bad part. It is making it open, talked about, spread around, seeing it around me, knowing the wince when I see someone sitting down gingerly, came from being spanked and not because they were out working in the garden.
I like having the perception of innocence around me. It is what keeps me ... dare I say it.... pure. Ok.. lol you know me.. don't laugh. But you know what I mean. I might lose the hotness that happens when people make me blush.
It is the surprise, the secret, the quiet moment when that idea lights up your eyes that appeals to me.
When I see people trying to make this "acceptable", I cringe because I think..
what happened to finesse? It is like they want to hammer the idea of kinky is good into everyones mind. It is soooooooooo much nicer to see someone slowly introduced, and percolating with need, at least in my mind.
I don't find things shameful. But I try to maintain the innocence in what I do. As if it was still the first time, 2000 times later. So far, it is still good. But maybe that is because I still like sex behind closed doors. I keep my hammer for building.
Kyst

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 9:04:39 AM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

I had a lover who started life out as a fundamentalist religious type & then had a coupla epiphanic summers in his young adult life & went from seminary student to radical atheist lefty type . . .. . He told me that he noticed that his orgasms were 'better' before, when sex was something shameful & bad that he shouldn't be doing, & that once his head was in a 'sex is okay' space it wasn't quite as much fun.

I found this idea a little threatening & upsetting at first, cuz I've worked at being unashamed about my sex stuff...But as time wore on, I noticed that he was on to something, the idea / feeling of 'naughtiness' does add some sizzle to my sex stuff.

And as I've explored BDSM this notion has really gripped me as it being a part of the engine that drives kink & fetish, that the feelings of 'naughtiness' & 'wrongness' are part of what we're playing with, that that process is part of what adds the extra zing.

I've heard it said the Devil keeps the church in business, and vice versa. Without a doubt, there is a strong element of seduction in the human mind for anything forbidden, particularly when is comes to sexuality. I believe you are correct in stating "wrongness" is one of the primary cogs motivating "kink", but this idea rings somewhat hollow for some, for what in the end constitutes a thrill ride is not the pursuit. For others, these acts are not a rebellion against religion or law; it is the religion and law of their flesh and bones, and it took some degree of actualization—not necessarily rebellion for the ulterior sake of pleasure—to understand this. So in this light of thinking, sometimes submitting to or dominating another isn't a matter of this feels so wrong, but a matter of this feels right—this is who and what I am. I'm guessing that's a subtle flip of the coin on this issue for some, but seems relevant to me.

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 9:15:49 AM

Jeptha

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This is why I'm a fan of shame and repression.

I'm kind of just kidding - I grew up in a repressed New England town, over which the ghosts of the puritans seemed to still be present.

Growing up with shame and repression sorta sucked.
But ~ it makes for some fun and games now that I've processed it to a large degree and gotten over it (mostly)...!

I used to have a short motto; "keep sex dirty!" in response to people who wished to be so completely out in the open about everything.

Would it be better if everything were open? Maybe. Probably.

I like playing around with the repressed stuff. The kind of humiliation that I've enjoyed playing around with in the past is based on the idea that a woman is supposed to be pure, innocent and upstanding ... or at least not indulge in slutty fantasies, etc, etc. {And, now that I think about it, the partners I've had who have enjoyed this also came from New England or the great midwest of America, rather than the "more open" west coast...)

And, I do a pretty good impression of the stern, puritanical father.

There's nothing inherently wrong or right about sexual matters of pretty much any sort, of course (which is why I'd shy away from bringing the word "morality" into the discussion), as long as it doesn't interfer with one's responsibility towards self and others.

When you get right down to it, it's just consenting adults poking each other.
No big deal, right?

The repressed aspects add an extra twist.

< Message edited by Jeptha -- 4/4/2009 9:35:27 AM >

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 9:55:30 AM

heartcream

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For me I dont think it is about being taboo, so many things on this old planet are taboo, like singing loud on the street. I dont pay that much attention to our repressed world, not that I dont hope to fit in, but bumping up against taboo almost every minute of the day has numbed me to it in a way.

For me the thing is to find someone to connect with that gets me and I have a sense of vice versa. Meeting someone who is my compliment. A meeting of the minds, bodies, hearts and feelings is what I desire. There is so much rich tapestry within that, potential for experiment and trust building and using that trust in more vulnerable situations.

Personally I am not interested in doing anything I dont want to do. Things that turn another's crank might make me gag so I am not looking for a thrill ride by going where I dont want to go. I need a feet on the ground feeling if I am going to do something I havent tried before. I need to feel connected first and foremost to myself and to him. For me to feel genuine self acceptance for the freaky bits of me is a turn-on because I genuinely can go further once I feel that.

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RE: Wrongness = Hotness? - 4/4/2009 10:01:30 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRaid

My wife is a native New Yorker as is her family. 90% of what she and I do is wrong by her family standards. It is not limited to geographics but more how one is raised by their parents and the values of the community they travel in. I agree that now more and more we are accepted but would you in a coffee and cake discussion with someone you just met inform them you have a Master and get bound on a regular basis for your pleasure or would you desire to withold that info?

I would consider it inappropriate, too much information, and would be offended if the first thing someone I had just met was how much they liked getting it in the ass. Equally, I find it inappropriate, not wrong but inappropriate, to share details of my private life. How do I know they want to hear this? Because without knowing, I am involving them in my sex life without their consent.

And consent is of utmost importance to me.

Truthfully, I'm not interested in discussions of how you have sex or what implements you use. I'm interested in relationships and how best to have them succeed. I'm more likely to watch a cooking show than a close up of someone chewing also.

I'm also totally uninterested in using words that are going to get people upset for no reason. Such as master/slave. I see no reason to deliberately hurt people who are only interested in my happiness. So I don't say to my elderly father that he has the right to tell me what to do, I do say that he is very protective and takes care of me. And that's the appropriate thing to do and say in that circumstance.

I equally am not going to make my offspring, or his, rethink their acceptance of our relationship by using hot button words that would cause alarm for no reason.

My friends and family see us interact. Some understand that the relationship they see is a power unequal one, most just see that we have an enormous amount of respect and caring for one another. And that's what's important.

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