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WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 10:25:56 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		I once heard a story where a sub was made to steal for her domme Or Turn a trick or two. When she got busted
she went my dom made me do it.  how crazy is that what extremes would you goto for your dominate. And they were bad ones would take responsiblity or just be oh well  hummmmm
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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 10:27:40 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		They are both liable for prosecution under the law.

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 12:24:23 PM   
ExKat


Posts: 300
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline 		I imagine that depends on what extremes the person would go to before. If I was a thief and a whore, it probably wouldn't be that big a deal to do those for my dominant. Since my main crimes are jaywalking and speeding now, it wouldn't be that big a deal to do those for my dominant, although I do think I'd be a bit suspicious if he asked me to. Cross the street now, slave! I don't care that there's not crosswalk here!!

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 1:35:48 PM   
kuriouswitch


Posts: 325
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline 		accoutability lies with both, the Dom for even asking her to do something that would get her in trouble with the law and her for not putting her foot down and saying, "no, that's not right and i won't do it"

just because you are a sub or slave that doesn't mean you've suddenly lost your morals, your ethics or your common sense. it also doesn't mean that you lose your accountability for your actions, in fact i feel in many ways it hightens it. You not only have yourself, your friends adn family and society to answer to now but also your Dom/Master.

He told her to break the law but instead of saying no and walking away she did it, both are punishable

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 1:36:03 PM   
Bstardsbitch


Posts: 154
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		"My Dom made me do it" really won't stand up in a court of law. If I stole for Sir or turned a trick or two because he said so.................well you better believe I'm responsible, for losing my marbles lol.
I'll never understand that mentality of "doing anything for my Dom". Sorry but breaking the law, which would have an effect on most parts of my life, then blaming Sir for it doesn't hold with me.
Personal responsibilty is where it's at in my book, whether ordered to or not I'm responsible for my actions.
x

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 1:41:53 PM   
gehennasfury


Posts: 60
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		Unfortunately kw, saying that "He told her to break the law but instead of saying no and walking away she did it, both are punishable" isn't correct, in my opinion. For any sub to break a law as ordered by any dominant is akin to saying the devil made me do it. The sub has to make the choice to obey. The only way a sub can say they were ordered to do it and have a chance to get away without legal repurcussions is IF the dominant threatened their lives or were holding a weapon on them. As we all know, a true dominant wouldn't stoop to that level. If a sub broke a law, whether told to by a dominant or not, is purely on the subs head alone, outside of extinuating circumstances.

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 1:47:23 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Personal responsibilty is where it's at in my book, whether ordered to or not I'm responsible for my actions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bstardsbitch

This is what I think as well, just because you are "owned" does not free you from personal responsibility. Any Dominant that would order their property to do this is not thinking of their welfare but just their own pocket.

~Lashra



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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 2:00:24 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Obviously the extent of criminal liability will depend on tree things:
  1. How the Law is worded in that state or territory regarding being coerced into doing something illegal.
  2. The proof that the Dominant did actually either encourage or command the sub to break the law.
  3. The actual nature and severity of the crime.
I think this will be much the same in essence in most countries but with different jurisdictions placing a different weight on different areas.

One of the things I find here and especially with such a large US Membership is that those in the US at times, seem to forget when they are framing their reply, respond according to their understanding of local law but phrase it in such a way that it appears they are giving a global answer, when most questions can be looked at on an international basis being applicable in all countries of membership.


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Master of Bruin Cottage

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 2:11:29 PM   
Bstardsbitch


Posts: 154
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		Since when have morals become different state by state, or country by country?
If I break the law I AM RESPONSIBLE, no matter if Sir ordered me to do it or not.
Ya see I didn't check  my common sense or my ethics and morals at the door when I became owned.
Grrrr drives me mad those that don't accept personal responsibilty.............owned or not.
x

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 2:17:31 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

They are both liable for prosecution under the law.


It would be difficult to prove the relationship is anything more than "we're dating and like it kinky in the bedroom" if the dominant hung the over-devoted sub out to dry. It would probably end in a break up.

The law takes a dim view on anything other than personal responsibility. Even the insanity defense (although famous and seemingly simple) is miserably hard to prove in most states/parts of the world.

Prostitution, however, is slightly different. The law has this habit of thinking every ho needs a pimp. The ivory tower learns slowly, and moves even slower.

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 2:24:38 PM   
crazyredhead1957


Posts: 189
Joined: 12/10/2008
Status: offline 		For me, anything that is against the law and/or a health hazard is a Hard Limit.....i even say as much in the essay portion of my profile, and if my Hard Limits aren't respected, i'm outta there.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 2:29:41 PM   
Bstardsbitch


Posts: 154
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		crazyredhead, sorry but I don't "get that" either lol.
It has nothing to do with hard limits, breaking the law is not a BDSM, D/s M/s related thing.
It shouldn't be a "hard limit" it should have to do with the moral fibre of your inner self.
If you have to "hard limit" breaking the law well............................lol
xx

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 2:43:56 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I would have liked to see that hold any water whatsoever in a court of law.

You are responsible for your actions..whether you do it for yourself or someone else.

You will go to jail or be fined..not your Dom/me.


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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 2:57:40 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I'm having an "A Few Good Men" moment: "I was just following orders".  Freakin' duh!  If a person is of degenerate enough character to order such a thing, they suck.  If a person is of degenerate character to obey such a thing, they suck.  So, if they mutually suck in those fashions, perhaps they're perfect for one another...maybe they can engage in some long-distance M/s play through the bars or across the yards in jail. 
  Davan

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 2:57:43 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bstardsbitch

Since when have morals become different state by state, or country by country?
If I break the law I AM RESPONSIBLE, no matter if Sir ordered me to do it or not.
Ya see I didn't check  my common sense or my ethics and morals at the door when I became owned.
Grrrr drives me mad those that don't accept personal responsibilty.............owned or not.
x


Not sure if you were commenting on my post or if is just that you followed me in the posts. However just in case you were commenting on my views, I was refering to the legal aspect and not the moral one. Morals are such a personal thing aren't they. I am amoral because I refuse to be bound by the morality of a religion I do not follow. However it is a matter or honour and aye pride that I take responsibility for the actions of any in my care irrespective of the legal angle. For me to require a slave to break the laws (Other than those we may breach in order to enjoy a BDSM relationship) would in my eyes be a gross breach of trust and my duty of care to said slave. For me such things l;ike honour and integrety are a code of conduct which of course has nothing to do with public or religious morality


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Bstardsbitch)
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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 5:04:55 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Their roles are pimp and prostitute, and they can both be liable. 

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 9:23:35 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I once heard a story where a sub was made to steal for her domme Or Turn a trick or two. When she got busted
she went my dom made me do it.  how crazy is that what extremes would you goto for your dominate. And they were bad ones would take responsiblity or just be oh well  hummmmm


It seems to me in a TPE, these would be defining moments. There are a lot of judgments here, but if the situation were that the Dominant ordered the submissive to "reveal," say, in the car, or engage in some mild play in the park?

It's interesting to me that the question of to what extent is a Dominant willing to take responsibility isn't spoken to.


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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/7/2009 10:55:00 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		very interesting indeed   kinda like that song that meatloaf came out with i would do anything for love but i won t do that

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/8/2009 4:56:09 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I once heard a story where a sub was made to steal for her domme Or Turn a trick or two. When she got busted
she went my dom made me do it.  how crazy is that what extremes would you goto for your dominate. And they were bad ones would take responsiblity or just be oh well  hummmmm

The person responsible is the person who has done 'the deeds'.
Sorry, but I will not place blame on a 'second person/dominant, etc".
If the person is mature enough to enter into such a relationship, then they should have been mature enough to know that what they were doing was wrong. Period. End of story.

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RE: WHOS Acountable - 4/8/2009 5:05:07 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Both in a moral sense, the dominant for being stupid enough to ask it and the sub for being stupid enough to do it. If its something demanded in the relationship the sub should say no or (if it were me) leave

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