All Women are slaves? (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 5:43:41 PM)

As female dommes how do you feel about gor philosophies?

Do any female dommes practice some form of this or is this a solely a male thing?

Is there a female version of gor?

Do you find gor insulting?

r1



MistressDREAD -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 6:06:08 PM)


I am a Alpha Poly Female Dominant and Gorean.

I find nothing repulsive about Gor and
enjoy My life and applications of such
within the M/s form of alternate way of
living.




theRose4U -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 6:20:11 PM)

I think that a lot of the gor philosophies are more redneck in foundation if they were pulled into earth context. Women are here to breed and serve. Deffinately something that I would call realistic or open minded.

That being said...I am close friends with a Gor Dom and I have learned a lot from him and vice verse. I think that the divotion that his girls show is admerable and something that I envy. But the idea of me on my knees beside them falls under HEL NO not in this freakin lifetime. After long discussions I think that he understands that.

In too many instances I have seen hard core abusers fly under the banner of Gor to do harm to women that are more hard core in their blind devotion to their masters. While this isn't my thing I find some of the things that Gor girls consider normal very disturbing to me, it is their decision to be there. Consent and choices that many Gor slaves shed are what initally lead them to the situations that they find themselves.

I think that in many instances Gor could be considered the "hard core" Dom but being that far on one side should not mean that things like Fem Dom's don't or shouldn't exsist. So much of what we do is yin & yang. If Dom is yin there must be a yang for WIITWD to be in balance. That being outside of the fact that all men aren't Doms and all slaves don't want to submit to men. Gor at least as I understand it doesn't take into account these options. I'm sure Iron Bear will be along at some point to teach me something I didn't realize about Gor but this is how I see it. Your milage may vary.



Real0ne -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 6:27:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD


I am a Alpha Poly Female Dominant and Gorean.

I find nothing repulsive about Gor and
enjoy My life and applications of such
within the M/s form of alternate way of
living.




So how does that reconcile with the philosphy that they believe "all women are slaves" for whatever reason? Is this something you do or is there precedence for this somewhere in the gorean "bible" for lack of a better term.



HayaSierra -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 6:43:58 PM)

Greetings everyone,

I posted to this thread over on the Gor board... somewhere on page 7 I believe. And as I said over there I don't believe in Female nor Male supremacy as a "Nature", but I believe that there are Dominants and submissives in each category to varying degrees.

Then I went into various trends I have observed, which I will not rehash over here, but that in the overall scheme of things the statement seemed completely off, and that perhaps the opposite might be more true.

As for Authority, I believe an Owner (no gender implied or meant here) should have complete say over a submissive if that is what they priorly have agreed to. In my household it depends on the Caste of the submissive just how much say I do have over him or her -- and yes, in many cases it is complete Authority.

But even that aside, what I practice is not a female version of "Gor" nor any other "Female Supremacy" type of D/s, there are no genderlines pre-defined. This is also not about fetishes nor about sensuality nor sexuality. This is about control and Dominance and submission.

It's part of a Society that is not solely defined by the D/s aspects that are but one part of it. The breakup of our Society and culture is rather interesting, as as many as 80+% of those involved are Citizens, about 12% of submissives of various types, and the remainder Intellectuals and Nobles of various types, with only a small percentage of individuals being involved with the D/s aspects, mostly those who are Nobles.

As for the part of myself there, I usually tell everyone -- I just HAPPEN to be a female in my position -- the position was not "defined" as being female, male or transexual -- it just is. And neither are submissives in that particular way of life defined as males, females or transexuals. Any and all are permitted to serve if that is what they wish to do.





SweetDommes -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 6:47:27 PM)

Honestly, every direct interaction that I have had with Goreans has been negative - up to and including the conversation where we were told that because we are women, our opinion on our boy's behavior didn't matter (he smarted off to a Gorean Male - who was being an ass at the time). I, personally, have trouble understanding how any FemDom can reconcile being a FemDom with the fact that - according to the Gorean books (which I have read about 1/2 of them before I gave up), any female - even a Free Woman - can become a slave at a Free Man's whim.

And this is just a personal issue with the ones that I have run across in the past - most of them seem to have it stuck in their heads that everyone is Gorean and just doesn't admit it, so when we call our boys "boys", "pets", or "submissives", they correct us - or just treat them like they do all male pyl's (meaning - absolutely no respect, lower than dirt - they are all slaves with no value or worth, no matter how they identify ... and heaven forbid you be a switch!). I hope and pray that this is not typical of Gorean ... but that is what we have run across time and time again.



michaelGA -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 6:51:27 PM)

my experiences with Gor, although strictly online, places a male slave lower than than scum and not worth keeping alive...or so the online Gorean Masters have expressed in the past...



LadyMorgynn -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 6:55:14 PM)

When all is said and done, Gor is a work of FICTION. If people want to take gorean philosophies and way of life and live them, that's fine by me... as long as they don't start kidnapping and selling unwilling women into slavery... which is illegal... therefore gorean slaves are slaves by consent, the same as slaves in a BDSM context.

The only thing that irritates me is that the goreans I know are always trying to make out like gorean ideas are FACT, relative to and truisms in this, Real world... all women are submissive and can only be free when enslaved to a man yada yada. In short, like many other groups, they demand a respect for their own beliefs that they don't extend to others of different beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

As female dommes how do you feel about gor philosophies?

Do any female dommes practice some form of this or is this a solely a male thing?

Is there a female version of gor?

Do you find gor insulting?

r1





theRose4U -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 7:08:43 PM)

quote:

And this is just a personal issue with the ones that I have run across in the past - most of them seem to have it stuck in their heads that everyone is Gorean and just doesn't admit it, so when we call our boys "boys", "pets", or "submissives", they correct us - or just treat them like they do all male pyl's (meaning - absolutely no respect, lower than dirt - they are all slaves with no value or worth, no matter how they identify ... and heaven forbid you be a switch!).



I personally believe that A holes exsist everywhere. I don't know that there are more of them in Gor, nilla or BDSM. Jerks abound.

I would deffinatly take issue with ANYONE male, female Dominant or not that told me how I "must" deal with my sub. He is mine. He answers to me and only me for his behavior. Whether I choose to discipline my boy in public for an infraction is also up to me.

What I'm reading in your post is that you had no issue with what your boy said and this Dom did. Personally I would look at someone like that and tell them that until the day that they allow me to discipline what is theirs they have no right to what is mine. I would frankly leave it there. Anyone continuing the altercation would do so at their own peril.



kc692 -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 7:17:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

When all is said and done, Gor is a work of FICTION. If people want to take gorean philosophies and way of life and live them, that's fine by me... as long as they don't start kidnapping and selling unwilling women into slavery... which is illegal... therefore gorean slaves are slaves by consent, the same as slaves in a BDSM context.

The only thing that irritates me is that the goreans I know are always trying to make out like gorean ideas are FACT, relative to and truisms in this, Real world... all women are submissive and can only be free when enslaved to a man yada yada. In short, like many other groups, they demand a respect for their own beliefs that they don't extend to others of different beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

As female dommes how do you feel about gor philosophies?

Do any female dommes practice some form of this or is this a solely a male thing?

Is there a female version of gor?

Do you find gor insulting?

r1






Well said, LadyMorgynn...



MistressDREAD -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 7:21:38 PM)


Go over to the Gor side to read My posts on such a question concerning this.

and actually michaelGA male slaves are a desired commodity of the Free Woman
they are not desired as a commodity of Free Men on Gor because the male slave
goes against the theory that all Men are Dominant by birth and kind of puts a joke
on the Dominant Males on Gor however there were many males slaves of Gor even
the main charactor becomming a enslaved male against His will. Gotta read the books
to appreciate Gor to its fullest and not just gain a select group of Goreans to gain
a whole opinion of any given lifestyle.



Jasmyn -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 7:48:23 PM)

Plenty of men and women believe submission is a primal need in women (as a gender) and that all women are not complete without a man in their life to take control. It's not just a Gorean held philiosophy.

Do I find this thinking insulting? Not at all. People are people and will be whoever they want to be... if being a 'Gorean Kajira' makes a woman happy then who am I to put down what makes her content.

I talk about 'Fem Supremacy' as a kink, not a belief, and plenty of men and women subs/slaves seek just that...in their eyes ...'a superior woman'...Goddess, Queen, Mistress, Priestess, etc,. One just needs to read a % of male profiles on here and other sites to see just how primal a need it is for a lot of men to submit to a woman, supremacy believer or not.

So on a day to day deal, all women are slaves philosophies doesn't worry me ... and if I am berated in conversation, public or private, by someone who holds this belief...I politely tell them ... all men are submissive when their dick's hard ... and if you don't believe me, just try denying one the opportunity for an orgasm...dominant or not...he'll beg.

The same can be said for women turned on needing release too... lol but I do so love trotting that line out for the hardcore men are in charge brigrade and watching them spluttering over their cognac trying to refute it.




slaveboyforyou -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 9:53:09 PM)

I have read a few of the books. I really don't see the attraction to them. The writing is tedious and unsophisticated. I don't even think the gorean series are good compared to other pulp science fiction literature.

I don't have any issues with people that lead their lives according to what they gather out of these books. But, the ideas that are put forth sound a lot like social Darwinism. I think most people know how that way of thinking turned out when it was applied in the past.



subset -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 10:11:48 PM)

sounds like a load of crap to me!



Misstoyou -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 10:36:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

As female dommes how do you feel about gor philosophies?

Do any female dommes practice some form of this or is this a solely a male thing?

Is there a female version of gor?

Do you find gor insulting?

r1



This is one of those "one of best friends is..." situations. We agree to disagree.

He has directed me to the books that have the "good parts" for female Dominants (and interestingly enough, we disagreed on what the "good parts" are lol), as well as the ones he wanted me to read to see if they touched a soft spot of mine. Such a disappointment to him! lol

As an English teacher, the writing is painful for me to read, but the philosophy is interesting.

Does it insult me? Well, I suppose it might...if I cared about what other people thought. [:D]



perverseangelic -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/29/2006 11:19:51 PM)

I greatly admire the Gorean style of slave ownership--the absoluteness and the ways in which behaviors are enforced and expected.

I disagree with the philosophy that women are inherently submissive to men, and men inherently dominant to women and that exceptions to the rule are somehow violating the natural order of the world. I disagree with the idea that women are only free at the sufference of men, which is an idea I hear espouced often in Gorean communities.



MstrssPassion -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/30/2006 4:19:41 AM)

The Gorean Forum was set up to discuss Gorean topics... why bring a arguable topic to this board that will surely raise heated debate?

Some of the dominant women on this site have already contributed to this thread on the board where it started.



michaelGA -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/30/2006 5:19:54 AM)

i tried reading the books but they are so poorly written that they did not hold my attention. what i did learn of Gor was by way of those who followed the book, perhaps too closely



MadameDahlia -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/30/2006 5:22:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

As female dommes how do you feel about gor philosophies?
Do any female dommes practice some form of this or is this a solely a male thing?
Is there a female version of gor?
Do you find gor insulting?


Which philosophies? From what I understand there's a whole slew of rules and regulations.

I really haven't studied the Gorean lifestyle enough to understand or know all of their rules - and I'm betting that since the lifestyle is an adaptation of rules and ways of living found in a series of books each Gorean probably has his or her own variation on a theme. I doubt that it would ever be possible to create a Gorean Rulebook since so many different people with different tastes engage in that sort of life.

From the name of your topic I suspect you meant that one specific philosophy that's been bandied about the Gorean Forum.

Are all women slaves? Nope. Not in my opinion. Plain and simple. But there are certainly others who would disagree. And I don't see why everyone has to agree as long as they can agree on one basic thing... to disagree.

I don't know if Dommes practice Gorean living. One poster to this thread said she does. And I've heard a few people talk about their Free Companions. I would guess that those are either Dommes or some sort of alpha woman in the house.

I think if you ask, "Does anyone like... " or "Is anyone interested in..." you're going to find at least one person who replies that they absolutely live for it - whether it's crossdressing, CBT or a specific lifestyle.

There are probably female versions of the Gorean lifestyle. Any female who wants to be known as an Amazon would probably fall into that sort of category. I think they'd be the closest female mirror image to the way male Doms live the Gorean life.

Insulted by those who practice the Gorean lifestyle? By the way their society is set up? By a series of books? No. I can't say that I am. Why should I be insulted? It's like any other choice one makes in the huge circus tent that encompasses anything even remotely D/s related. Hell, it's like any personal choice really.

Just because something isn't for me doesn't mean I have to hate it - or bend over backwards to express intense dislike for it. Do I want to surround myself with it? No. Do I have any inclination to read the books? Not really. Do I want to hunt down anyone calling him/herself a Gorean and hang them by their toenails until they black out from all the blood rushing to their head? Why bother?

It's pointless to get worked up over something that doesn't affect your life in any way, shape or form. This is why I don't care if next door Bobbie fucks Sally in the ass while she beats him with spaghetti - or why I couldn't care less if Jane and Jill get married and engage in 69s every Thursday while listening as Bewitched plays in the background.

Now if they're fucking on my lawn... that's another matter.



thetammyjo -> RE: All Women are slaves? (1/30/2006 6:53:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

When all is said and done, Gor is a work of FICTION. If people want to take gorean philosophies and way of life and live them, that's fine by me... as long as they don't start kidnapping and selling unwilling women into slavery... which is illegal... therefore gorean slaves are slaves by consent, the same as slaves in a BDSM context.

The only thing that irritates me is that the goreans I know are always trying to make out like gorean ideas are FACT, relative to and truisms in this, Real world... all women are submissive and can only be free when enslaved to a man yada yada. In short, like many other groups, they demand a respect for their own beliefs that they don't extend to others of different beliefs.



I just wanted to copy this and applaud.

I write fiction myself. I enjoy fiction a lot in fact.

But it is fiction first and foremost.

For some this fiction has touched a part of them and they like using the fictional models to help create a lifestyle. I agree with ladyMorgynn that there is nothing wrong with that until the fiction become justification for interpreting the entire world.

I feel the same way though about any work of fiction or any single model (religious, political, whatever) that someone adopts and then tries to push onto the rest of the world as they encounter it.

What happens in your head and between your partners, that's one thing. What you say to others however is quite a different thing. I often wonder if the "need to push it onto others" is a sign of feeling insecure with the ideas or models themselves or with the indiviual's sense of self -- "I don't feel good about myself or I feel unsure so I'll force everyone to fit this so I have no more confusion". Again this isn't specifcially about Gor but it could be about several things.

In fact, I find myself more offended by "female supremacy" advocates whom I meet in meatlife and online than Gor folks. But then again I met very few Gor folks and those I do just stop interacting with me when they see/hear I identify as a dominant with a slave who happens to be male. *shrug*



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