Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

As the recession spirals downward, more killings and mass shootings?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> As the recession spirals downward, more killings and mass shootings? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
As the recession spirals downward, more killings and ma... - 4/11/2009 11:26:22 AM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I have always thought that many in our era of instant gratification, unending sense of entitlement
to material comforts, and being surrounded by messages encouraging materialism would do NOT do well, with our current recession/I think soon to be Depression era.
Many of us have lost that basic survival gene, and are unwilling to sacrifice, and make unpleasant BUT necessary choices to stay alive that require drastically having to alter our standards of living, and will force many to give up some or MANY material comforts, perhaps permanently. *These changes may very well be permanent changes for those over 40 or so, near retirement age, or older.*
 
I don't think anyone needs to be a rocket scientist to conclude that the recent seeminly never-ending stream of mass murders, workplace violence, and increases in random crimes, and domestic violence cases are linked to the bad economy, rise in unemployment, and the rising ranks of people whose lives are being turned upside down.
 
I have been talking a lot lately about the difference between life in the 30's and today.
In the 30's many people did not have a lot in the first place, and were living simply.
Families tended to stay together and take care of their own, there was really no such thing
as sending someone to a nursing home, etc.
 
I just read an article that stated, social workers were bracing for a predictable increase in family and domestic violence due to the recession, increases in unemployment, and rising number of displaced and homeless families.


Many of us are going to have to learn a new way of living, and are going to be creating a new sense of priorities in the years to come.
Again, the end of an era always comes to mind.
I would enjoy reading people's thoughts on how the recession/could easily turn into depression, is related
to the rise in horrific killings, random and increasing violence, certainly an increase in domestic violence and even mass shootings?

The Crime Report » Blog Archive » Mass Killings Linked To Economic Downturn

Some Link Economy With Spate Of Killings - washingtonpost.com

Uptick in Mass Murders Could Be Linked to Economy - Crime & Courts news | Newser

Economy may contribute to rise in family violence: Associated Press Business News - MSN Money

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/11/2009 12:01:00 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 12:15:02 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Generally speaking, the incidence of crime swings upward as more and more people become desperate... especially if there is no social saftey net. But, you've probably left out one of the bigger stats... the suicide rate is usually the highest upturn of all. (I remember this from an article in Newsweek that came out shortly after "black Monday" when Neil Bush [brother of ex-malignant President George] helped to fuck over the savings and loan industry)


(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 12:17:48 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for the response!
Ah, but I have to call you on the suicide factor!

These days, many of the mass murderers ARE committing suicide!
They take as many out as they can before they kill themselves!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MarsBonfire)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 4:13:47 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Thank you for the response!
Ah, but I have to call you on the suicide factor!

These days, many of the mass murderers ARE committing suicide!
They take as many out as they can before they kill themselves!

It is all going to happen and in an ever-increasing frequency. American is going to form a whole new society. Already dying younger than people in about 40+ other countries, Americans I doubt, that by riding our bikes to work and back not being able to afford car, gas and insurance...will prolong that in the long run.

As for violence, they are just gett'n started. Look around the world, violence is up all over and for the same reasons...billions migrating to the cities where there is no work but many things to steal and people that get in their way. Almost all of it due to...debt and poverty.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 4:23:02 PM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		Violence increases in "bad times" when people don't see one another as a member of one's community.  

Alienation from community, resulting in a person being a "loner."  Some loners want to be left alone.  Others, well...we see what they can do.

Of course, we always get the "other side", when a group isolates itself from other groups, such as gang membership. 

Until we are all members of the same "human community" in our "hearts" things won't change.   And I don't see that happening Real Soon Now....




_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 8:02:18 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Mz Mia,
 
These types of incidents are only going to increase as people become more desperate.  And 2 major causes that few will talk about is over population and the exploitation of finite resources.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 8:14:31 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Mz Mia,
 
These types of incidents are only going to increase as people become more desperate.  And 2 major causes that few will talk about is over population and the exploitation of finite resources.


Hello Vendaval,
I agree with your posts, and the other 3 posters so far.
Another reason people don't like to talk about this, is because as I said, many of us don't like to admit and have trouble accepting when terrible things are happening to many people that certainly have worked hard and don't "deserve" to lose their jobs, homes, dreams, etc.

This recession/coming depression flies in the face of what most of us want to believe, especially when it comes to those that become violent, dangerous, or even mass murderers because they can't cope with hard times or failed dreams.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/11/2009 8:16:57 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 8:16:35 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I hear you.  Many people feel abandoned, betrayed and forgotten by the social and political institutions that they believed to be solid, stable and trustworthy.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 8:22:12 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I hear you.  Many people feel abandoned, betrayed and forgotten by the social and political institutions that they believed to be solid, stable and trustworthy.


I agree with you Ven, but I still think it is more than that.
Many people I don't think can psychologically deal with being poor, hard times, etc.
When my parents/grandparents grew up, they and almost everyone they knew did not have much.
Despite the fact they did not have MUCH, both of my grandfathers had jobs during the depression, and were able to provide for their families the best ways that they could.
I am only 3 or 4 generations from slavery, the depression really was not that big a deal to most Black folks.
 
As millions of people continue to lose their jobs with no real end in sight, many are going to have to learn to go about life in a different way.
At some point, many may have to learn how to save themselves.
Even if it means, living with 10 other people, growing your own food, making your own clothes, living in tents or make shift homes you build yourself, and learning to do with a lot less.

My post is not really about the government saving everyone, but asking if people are capable of saving themselves, and living with LESS material things permanently. 
Or are we going to end up with more and more people going ballistic because of having to deal with losing almost everything and hard times?

I personally think that many people, especially people middle aged and under, are part of the me generation, the age of instant gratification, and never ending materialism, and really are not equipped mentally to deal with things and situations, when the shit hits the fan and the going REALLY does get rough.

Well, we shall certainly see what many are made of in the next few years.
 

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/11/2009 8:42:06 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 9:24:56 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		You are making a very important point here.  How many people in our current society are willing to make the sacrifices necessary to survive that type of situation? 



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 11:19:53 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I hear you.  Many people feel abandoned, betrayed and forgotten by the social and political institutions that they believed to be solid, stable and trustworthy.


...society is a sort of home. Those who feel they have no place in society are, in a profound spiritual sense, homeless........and as desperate as anyone in that unfortunate position. Some, perhaps most, find a way to deal. However a small percentage can't deal, and as the number of people in that situation rise, so the number of people represented by that small percentage rise.....

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/11/2009 11:32:41 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Very true and very predictable, phil. 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/12/2009 6:52:05 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		HOGWASH!

Copycat acts... right now.  Nothing more.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/12/2009 7:02:23 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

HOGWASH!

Copycat acts... right now.  Nothing more.



I think you have a point.

We tend to follow the pack.

We buy what everyone else is buying, we follow the beliefs of what everyone else is believing, it's not a stretch to think that people with mental/emotional problems are going to vent their frustrations in the same way others are doing.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/12/2009 7:14:43 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

HOGWASH!

Copycat acts... right now.  Nothing more.



I think you have a point.

We tend to follow the pack.

We buy what everyone else is buying, we follow the beliefs of what everyone else is believing, it's not a stretch to think that people with mental/emotional problems are going to vent their frustrations in the same way others are doing.



when have we not been violent?     Even in the good ole days we were.  maybe not as shock value- but still

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/12/2009 7:48:27 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		If I am denied by my society and expelled from all community, then for what reason should I conform to the laws of that society or the rules of community? If I find myself surrounded by others who have been similarly denied and expelled and who think the same, concentrated as we are into poorer neighbourhoods, is it not natural that together we might develop our own system of laws and rules predicated on our situation and somewhat hostile to those outside of it?

This latest episode will undoubtedly add numbers to those in this underclass - but we shouldnt pretend that such an underclass is something new nor indeed worse, believe that its only a problem now because we and our friends and families might well join it.

But the issue isnt about the existence or growth of an underclass so much - its more a question of psychology than sociology, and its probably something of a stretch to make a connection between the underclass and mass murders. In fact I would say that mass murders of the sort being discussed here are likely less prevalent by origin in the underclass and more prevalent in the middle classes. The common factor between the underclass and the middle class mass murderer is the sense of betrayal and injustice which characterises both and which turns both towards a path of open hostility to the greater society. The crimes of the underclass, however lesser in seriousness and the crime of the mass murderer in this are self-justified by anger and righteous revenge.

We can argue about what is right and just for anyone to expect, we can debate the nature of the social contract - even if such a thing exists but two things are certain; we all have a sense of what is right and just and we all feel betrayal, injustice, anger and a need to put things right.

And equally certain is that if one is told from a young age and then educated in the same vein to believe that if we behave in certain ways, achieve certain things and apply ourselves then we shall receive all that we desire - and then this ingrained contract is wiped away in a moment and leaves us destitute, we are likely to find it a betrayal, an injustice and a cause for anger and possibly, vengeance.

And this is the great disconnect in our modern socio-economic system - on the one hand it preaches the values of upright morality of the past, but simultaneously celebrates the cult of greed and avarice, selfishness and gluttony that is the exact antithesis. All must aspire, but all must be disappointed and at times betrayed. Our underclass have at least the advantage that they have grown accustomed to and evolved into this duplicitous worldview.

And who is to blame? Politicians who have led us down this path since the 1980s? Certainly. Bankers and financiers and lobbyists who have removed the means by which our attention to upright morality is undermined at the stroke of a pen that offshores the means by which our steady application to working hard for our dreams might have been had? Certainly.

And also every one of us that thinks "I'm alright Jack", every one of us who has no concern for anyone but himself, his own acquisition and to hell with anyone else whilst relying on the shifting sands of his own moral uprightness on which he stands - the same shifting sands in which his fellows are sinking all around him and upon which when they lash out in desperation he stands in arrogant condemnation of their "evil".

In the greater scheme of things, all this might just be our salvation as a society - to realise that either greed and avarice and selfishness are the way of things, or that we prefer a community in which social justice comes a lot higher on the agenda with opportunities for all regardless of the personal cost to ourselves.

Truly, we get the society we deserve.

E





_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/12/2009 8:16:03 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I have been down and out several times. I lost a house and have been on strike 3 times. In all of the bad times I never layed a hand on my daughters or my wife. Maybe we should once again blame George Bush instead of putting blame where it belongs.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/12/2009 8:26:10 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		If you get layed off from your job, you try your best to get another job. You don't go home and beat up your wife..Recessions happen every 20 years or so. Ride them out and go on with your lives without hurting those close to you...

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/12/2009 8:31:12 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I have been down and out several times. I lost a house and have been on strike 3 times. In all of the bad times I never layed a hand on my daughters or my wife. Maybe we should once again blame George Bush instead of putting blame where it belongs.
You know to read these threads one would think poor old George Bush,never got a break.....puhleaseee
The man was President for 2 terms,is going to have his own *gasp* library and threw out the first pitch for the Texas Rangers the other day.All with out being able to chew gum and walk at the same time.....I'd say the man has lived a charmed life.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: As the recession spirals downward, more killings an... - 4/12/2009 8:36:45 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I guess it is much easier to blame Bush for everything that goes wrong in this counry. Forget personal responsibility. Times are rough right now but it is no excuse for domestic violence..

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> As the recession spirals downward, more killings and mass shootings? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094