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What do to when sub is being a child. - 4/12/2009 11:03:42 AM

MidnightKat5000

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What do you when your sub acts like an f*cking child? My way of disciplining is a form of teaching.
When something new is introduced, the steps are as follows:
I expect there to be a few boo boos at first; thus, a verbal reminder. After the reminder comes a sit down and we discuss whether or not the rule needs to be changed or if he's simply not under standing it. After that comes punishment.

I NEVER put something in to effect without first explaining why I am doing it. Even if I am not “disciplining” per say, I still teach things and explain the whys. I am getting pretty fed up with telling him something and then he starts to pout and go in with the whole “I’m such a screw up, I’m just going to stick my head in a hole and die” crap. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to either handle this or another way in which to approach this? Note: I do not do yelling or screaming contests; it’s just not productive and only escalates things. I am always cool, calm, and collective when I explain – in other words, I don’t bitch and nag.

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 4/12/2009 11:14:04 AM

masmiss

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It really depends on the relationship you have with your sub. I had a similar problem a while back with a sub, and like you, I always approach an issue calmly. This sub was an absolute brat and one day I just slapped him. Not very hard, just enough to startle him into paying close attention to me. It worked. It was a hard choice to make because he has no maso tendencies. It could have gone either way.
Good luck.

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 4/12/2009 11:14:35 AM

PsyVamp

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No matter what I say to this, I'm going to come across as a complete Bitch, so here goes nothing:

I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering when my pet has the time to go sub to another domme considering he doesn't leave the house.
*laughs*

Yes, the passive/aggressive "I'm a fuck up, I never do anything right" rears its ugly head in other dynamics too.

I will admit that I tried the patience routine at first, but after two years I just tell him to grow the hell up or get out. Needless to say, I hear it a LOT less since I've taken that tactic.

Good luck,

Lady Jag

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 4/12/2009 11:28:58 AM

Lockit

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Okay think of it as a parent and um situation. When in trouble, the um may pout or throw a fit or create a situation where the focus is taken off the bad deed and onto... me, me, me, focused on I have an ouchie. See mom, feel sorry for me, pity me and good ol mom, kisses the ouchie and no more mad mommy. WRONG!

I'm sorry you feel that way and we might address that later, but for now, stop your wailing and get on with what I told you do to. I won't be distracted by whatever you do so stiffle the sobs and stop that before you're in trouble for acting like a young um.

When things are calmer, I always talked things out. I let them know that I was there to understand and help them and I would address that pity, beating one's self up issue, but not in that moment. I would address any self talk that is defeating them and try to bring about changes there. But I would not allow the um to manipulate things and change the subject. If this is a pattern and you have no reasonable reason for the distraction, it is time to call a halt to it with an ultimatum. This is not allowed and if it continues, such and such will happen and if it does happen again, be prepared to back up your ultimatum. Otherwise... they are in control and you are in for some rough times. Be consistant and don't back down if there isn't a deeply rooted emotional problem and if there is, you might have to consider that someone just isn't up to the task of being an adult and acting responsibly without the passive aggressive manipulations that by habit prove worthwhile to do. Don't make it worth his while to act like that.

At my house when I failed to give just one chance and gave another... they tried to take every chance they could get. Now... they get one chance.. they know the rules and such... and if that is broken, they get swift respose from me and it isn't what they typically expect from past getting over on me... but is what they have been warned about already.

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 4/12/2009 11:59:51 AM

AtlantaMistress

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I have a boy that is normally very good, but when he is not getting what he wants (usually enough of my time) or if I tell him he has done something wrong, despite his efforts to always please me, he will mope. I know that in the past he has had women abandon him, and he worries about that - and along with some other things, has some insecurity issues. He really is a good boy, and does try very hard, but it is important that I be able to communicate what is right or wrong for him to learn, and I cannot STAND the moping. I also explain the whys more often than not, and sometimes I just want to say "because I said so" and that is it...but although I love to give a good beating, I don't want to hurt his feelings. Handling the physical aspects of BDSM are so much easier than the emotional. I have tried to talk to him about it, and it is getting better. I will tell you that if talking about it hadn't worked, I would have gone into punishment mode - doing something that he HATES in order to deter him from this behaviour again. I just posted in another topic about the fact that reward and punishment are different for everyone, and you really have to know what he does/doesn't like, or he can act out just to get what it is you may think is punishment. If one punishment is not a deterance, move on to another. After all, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If he does stop these things, make sure to show him affection and reward him, to reinforce the good behavior. You may also need to work on some ways to help him with his insecurities, but these are really his issues, and you can not really be held responsible for them, and shouldn't have to deal with them.

Bottom line, a big part of submission should be in finding his happiness in your pleasure, and if the insecurities and reaction do not please you, then they have to stop. I remind him and my other subs that if they don't listen to what I say and learn, they will receive the worst punishment of all - to not be able to serve me.

Good luck!

Ms. Sandy
www.trampledom.com

< Message edited by AtlantaMistress -- 4/12/2009 12:01:57 PM >

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 5/4/2009 4:54:22 AM

GYPZYQUEEN

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What reward is he getting for acting like this?
He is repeating it to get something he wants..

What is your response right after?
IF That is what he wants..take it away.
eg) you console..are disconcerted...confused..

if he gets negative attention change it ........... if he wants positive change it,,

eg) say nothing ... walk off...if it looks like he wants to get you bargaining

ignore for a time until feedback meeting if he wants instant attention

*****THE REWARDS FOR NOT DOING IT
have to greater than for continuing the behavior.******

also 3 great words for shit disturbers..
after /during there little brat act..
or whine

say "oh" or "I see" or "whatever"
( not sarcasticly..just knowingly and firmly...like the QUEEN you are)
They may contine "but you said "or "I am such a dunce"
simpy repeat "oh" " I see"
and walk away
** if he is at a task you may wish to add "stay on task"
but that's it

right away YOU ARE IN CONTROL..
.they are left thinking wtf?
and "what will she do next" ....... they have made NO impact on your moment and off you go living in joy
YOU HAVE NOT BEEN SUCKED INTO THEIR PETTY GAME

GQ

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 5/4/2009 5:04:44 AM >

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 5/4/2009 5:05:32 AM

LadySweetOrSour

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Have a naughty corner. Seriously.

I, like you, always explain my actions. Yes, yes, I might be very undommely, but I have reared my um's and have no intention of doing the same thing with an adult for the rest of my days. As I would give respect to any adult, if I need something doing differently to usual, or there is to be a change, I explain why.

If your sub chooses to act like a child, and assuming this isn't one of his fetishes, treat him as such. No adult conversation, no interaction, no notice taken of him at all. Until he can act like the full grown adult he is, he will not be treated in a like manner.

As Gypzyqueen said, he must be gaining something from this to keep acting it out. Find out what it is, and stop giving it to him. If he says he's a fuck up, etc., agree and say that when he has finished feeling sorry for himself, you do not wish to hear any more. He will either tell you what he is/isnt needing/wanting, or he will continue with his behaviour.

Is this something you want in a submissive in the long term? It sounds like an awful lot of work to me. If he cannot, or will not, change, then perhaps you need to tell him that this arrangement is no longer satisfactory to you. If he thinks he is going to be kicked to the kerb for continued bad behaviour, it may make him look deeper into what is really important to him.

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 5/4/2009 3:11:20 PM

LadyConstanze

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I just don't have patience for it, I think we're grown ups and childish behaviour is terribly annoying, I'd possibly talk about it once, even twice but the 3rd time, if he hasn't learned, I'm not wasting time and energy anymore.

I readily admit I'm a sadist and the worst punishment for somebody who behaves childish is being ignored, gives him time to think if that is what he wants and if he wants to risk me walking away.

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 5/4/2009 3:46:57 PM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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If a boy behaved like this, I would first ascertain he's not depressed and living in a dark place emotionally; than I'd ignore him, and not give him attention or anything pleasurable until his mood and behavior were more pleasing to be around. M

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RE: What do to when sub is being a child. - 5/4/2009 4:15:44 PM

BKSir

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Unfortunately, my pet gets this way at times also. It's gotten better, and I know why he does. He spent many many years, all of them before he met me, from what I can tell, being told that he's a failure, that he's useless, blah blah blah. Is he perfect? No. No one is. But I've found that, at least in his instance, sometimes I just have to pull him aside, get up in his face and flat out ask him, "So, you say you're a screw up? Does that mean you think so little of your master that he would accept a screw up as a pet? You think I'm so foolish that I would want someone useless in my life? Are you saying I'm so stupid that I would change and disrupt my house and spend the money on your plane ticket and caring for a failure?"

And then I remind him that every time he says something like that about himself, he's insulting someone I love dearly, and ask him how he would react if I started saying things like that about his grandmother or grandfather (the only two good influences on him in his past, and they are awesome people, I should give gram and gramp a call later).

Normally (okay always), his response is, "No... but...", and that's when I cut him off, and just remind him that just because he screwed up, doesn't mean he IS a screw up. Remind him that we all make mistakes, myself included, and that we can either spend a couple days beating ourselves up over it, or we can go back, spend probably a lot less time and effort, and just fix what we did wrong.

In a lot of ways I think that having a sub is akin to having a small one around. You are there to teach them, to nurture them, to help them grow and learn and better themselves. At least, that's how it is in our household. I didn't ask him to be my pet because he was perfect, I asked him because I saw a spark there, a potential within him. And as long as he's moving toward that potential, then I could not be happier or more proud of him.

But just like lil'uns, sometimes there does have to be tough love, being blunt and saying "Because I said so.", saying "Well, you did this wrong, thus I'm going to take away your computer access for a week except for checking email twice per day (he keeps in touch with his family that way)." or whatever punishment might fit the error. Normally though, reminding him of what he's saying when he gets into one of his moods, and how it sounds in relation to master, is enough of a kick in the ass to get him moving again. After all, what sub ever wants to say those things about their dom? Making him look at it like that hurts him in a way that no other punishment could.

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