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bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 6:58:37 AM

LATEXBABY64

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Whats the difference between a good ds relationship and a bad one
when it becomes an addiction rather then a true power exchange.
what way do i mean addiction. When a dom or domme or even a sub is abusive or they can not function with out it. whats your version of a healthy dynamic

Post #: 1

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 7:00:53 AM

camille65

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From: Austin Texas
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The same as in any relationship, D/s or not. When it becomes unhealthy for a persons emotional growth or stability things need to change.

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 7:03:18 AM

DarkSteven

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In a bad relationship, it is addictive because otherwise the abused partner will leave,
In a good relationship, it is addictive because it is so good you do not want to leave.

It's simply whether the relationship is good for both parties. (Or more, in the case of poly.)

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 7:12:16 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
The same as in any relationship, D/s or not. When it becomes unhealthy for a persons emotional growth or stability things need to change.

Damn it camille, you beat me to it!

A healthy relationship is a healthy relationship. If you are made less by your relationship, it's unhealthy. If you have support in growing, it's a healthy one. There, that wasn't so hard to figure out, now was it?

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Post #: 4

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 7:14:16 AM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
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From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Whats the difference between a good ds relationship and a bad one
when it becomes an addiction rather then a true power exchange.
what way do i mean addiction. When a dom or domme or even a sub is abusive or they can not function with out it. whats your version of a healthy dynamic

You don't know the difference after
1983 posts on this forum, and being at least for four years
on Collarme? That surprises Me.

Abuse hasn't gotto do with D/s, nor with Good.
Abusive is always bad, and a Red Flag, to get the hell out.

So make sure it stays healthy, otherwise move on.

I wish you enough

GoddezzT`

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(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 5

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 7:14:38 AM

chamberqueen

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From: Kalamazoo, MI
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I've actually put a lot of thought into this recently. It is not unusual in a vanilla marriage for each partner to feel that they could not do without the other, so what's wrong with feeling that way in a BDSM relationship? Each person needs to decide for themselves when it crosses the line from healthy to unhealthy, and there can be a big gray area in between.

As an example, a sub may feel that she is not getting all of the attention that they would like, but leaving could mean no attention at all. Does she stick it out? While for some meeting once a week and 3 or 4 emails in between would be ideal others need daily attention. It becomes a very personal choice. It is easy for others to sit back and scoff and say that there should be daily contact, but if the sub is willing to put up with it then it is really their choice.

The line between being "used" and abused can also be a fine one with gray areas attached. While to one person hearing "you are only a slut" may be very erotic in the heat of the moment, to the next sub it might be crushing. While one sub may have no problem cleaning toilets for their Master another might find it humiliating and offensive. Only the sub can decide if these things are abuse.

Are their disfunctional BDSM relationships? You bet, from both sides of the kneel. Either top or bottom can be caught up in needing the other one so much that they start to strangle the relationship. There are subs that become petty and demanding and the Masters give in for fear of using them, or Masters who are doting during a session but have almost no contact in between. Two partners rarely have the same level of devotion to each other, and when there is a great disparity someone is bound to be hurt. Again, each person has to decide when a line has been crossed and whether open communication and trust will work together to smooth things out or whether it is best to depart.

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 7:49:54 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Whats the difference between a good ds relationship and a bad one
when it becomes an addiction rather then a true power exchange.
what way do i mean addiction. When a dom or domme or even a sub is abusive or they can not function with out it. whats your version of a healthy dynamic

There is virtually -no- difference between the criteria to determine the health of a D/s dynamic and health of any other kind of relationship. The D/s parameters of the relationship define the -activities- one participates in, and the way that the participants relate to one another, but the health of the relationship is something that exists whether the relationship is D/s based or more mainstream.

A healthy dynamic allows for both individuals to flourish -- to grow, to be themselves, to live honestly and completely, and to cherish what they have between them. An outsider cannot judge whether a relationship is in this place or not -- only the people involved in it can make those kinds of decisions.

An unhealthy relationship denies the people participating in that relationship the opportunity to grow, change, and be themselves. It requires one or both partners to remain static, provides no space for one to be honest and accurate in the way one -is-, judges, denies, or forces a set of behaviors on the party/parties without consent having been given. Again, an outsider cannot judge whether a relationship is unhealthy. We have a limited perspective, since we do not live with the people involved, nor are we in their heads. It behooves each of us to be responsible for the health of our own minds and our own relationships, or to seek out help if we suspect that we are living in a way that prevents our well-being and progress.

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(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 7

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 7:52:20 AM

SurrealEnigma

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well written and insightful

good job

Nicola~

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 8

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 8:00:43 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

I've actually put a lot of thought into this recently. It is not unusual in a vanilla marriage for each partner to feel that they could not do without the other, so what's wrong with feeling that way in a BDSM relationship?

Actually, my problem with this scenario is regardless of whether the relationship is D/s-based or not. I believe that healthy relationships come out of the place where we are capable of being self-sustaining, first. If we "cannot live without" someone, that is an addiction. It is not an affectionate, mutually-beneficial , healthy joint existence, built by two mentally and emotionally healthy individuals, where they nurture one another and respect that they are both individuals and share a common inter-relationship, and that both aspects must grow and be nourished to stay healthy.

I can completely understand the sentiment of "I want this person in my life, and my life would lose an aspect that I cherish if xhe were no longer a part of my life.", but I strongly feel that individuals who are either living in or seeking relationships where they will be "indispensible" to the other person, or where they cling to another person as if losing that person would strip their lives to the point where they could no longer function, there is a powerful statement of ill health in those situations.

I also want to take just a moment to contrast the dramatic "I just can't live without hir", spoken to emphasize, but where both parties know that, were something to happen, they'd both manage to get along, with the actual addictive state where one party (or both parties) would actually cease to be able to function if the other party was not there to hold them together. The first is a form of dramatic scene-setting. I have no real appreciation for it as an art form, but I understand that it works for some people. The second is really a pathological state, and individuals caught in that place (in particular those who are experiencing severe abuse because of their incapacity to end relationships with people who are predatory to them) really need to seek out professional assistance to deal with the issues involved.

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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Post #: 9

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 8:37:08 AM

MARAA

Posts: 38
Joined: 2/27/2009
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I agree, you are the one to make yourself happy or not,you are the one doing it. You cant rely on someone else to do it, bdsm or not. It is nice, to share yes. but its a difference from there,to the other. Well,you can argue,but I dont believe its a healthy mental condition in the end. what good does it do for you. And sooner or later you have to live without because sooner or later -we all know that. But okay,there is a fine line between the two.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 10

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 6:10:02 PM

LATEXBABY64

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Joined: 4/8/2004
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so is this more like a need or want then or both and what happens if the want is not a good one

(in reply to MARAA)

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 6:27:36 PM

wisdomofgiving

Posts: 55
Joined: 3/19/2009
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I lit a cig because the withdraw is harder to go through then breaking the addiction. I getting something out of it, no withdraws. I continue smoking, causing i am getting something out of it

I finish a bottle of vodka though i am suppose to stop since i have liver disease. I do not want to go through the withdraw and change my life. I getting something out of it. I do not stop drinking

I am in a bad Ds relationship where nothing I do is ever right. I do not leave, because at least this is some type of attention. I will settle for some attention rather then none. This is an addiction. I am getting something from it. I prefer to get attention so will stay in bad relationship.

NOTE THE ABOVE IS NOT ABOUT ME, NOR IS IT PART OF MY LIFE.
This is what addiction is and the reason why people stay addicted to anything. As long as they are getting something out of it they will stay addicted.

Anyways that is my 2 cents for what it's worth

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once and always an oceanwynds and now wisdomofgiving

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Post #: 12

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 8:46:49 PM

Kaiel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wisdomofgiving

I lit a cig because the withdraw is harder to go through then breaking the addiction. I getting something out of it, no withdraws. I continue smoking, causing i am getting something out of it

I finish a bottle of vodka though i am suppose to stop since i have liver disease. I do not want to go through the withdraw and change my life. I getting something out of it. I do not stop drinking

I am in a bad Ds relationship where nothing I do is ever right. I do not leave, because at least this is some type of attention. I will settle for some attention rather then none. This is an addiction. I am getting something from it. I prefer to get attention so will stay in bad relationship.

NOTE THE ABOVE IS NOT ABOUT ME, NOR IS IT PART OF MY LIFE.
This is what addiction is and the reason why people stay addicted to anything. As long as they are getting something out of it they will stay addicted.

Anyways that is my 2 cents for what it's worth

I agree with your statements, and I am an addiction therapist... there is some form of payout for the OP even if it's negative. Alot of time people don't leave co-dependent addictive dysfunctional relationships, because its too scary to change and go out into the unknown...so it's easier to suffer with what they do know.

< Message edited by Kaiel -- 4/13/2009 8:47:23 PM >

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/13/2009 9:27:03 PM

DemonKia

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Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaiel
I agree with your statements, and I am an addiction therapist... there is some form of payout for the OP even if it's negative. Alot of time people don't leave co-dependent addictive dysfunctional relationships, because its too scary to change and go out into the unknown...so it's easier to suffer with what they do know.

We cling to the comfort & seeming safety of our known failures rather than face our fears about the unknown dangers of success . . . . . *shakes head* . . . . I know that one so well . . . . .

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/14/2009 7:18:48 AM

wisdomofgiving

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Joined: 3/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaiel
I agree with your statements, and I am an addiction therapist... there is some form of payout for the OP even if it's negative. Alot of time people don't leave co-dependent addictive dysfunctional relationships, because its too scary to change and go out into the unknown...so it's easier to suffer with what they do know.

We cling to the comfort & seeming safety of our known failures rather than face our fears about the unknown dangers of success . . . . . *shakes head* . . . . I know that one so well . . . . .

Success simply is taking responsibility for all our actions, and doing the work that entails to achieve it. Don't believe there is a fear of success but more the fear of taking responsibility for our life and walking/crawling through our fears.

_____________________________

Though my heart will always be connect to the ocean winds, my mind is now learning about the wisdom of giving.

once and always an oceanwynds and now wisdomofgiving

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 15

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/14/2009 7:25:38 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
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From: Kalamazoo, MI
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I agree completely with Kaiel. I had been in an abusive marriage that I was afraid to leave. I knew the present nightmare; what I didn't know was the nightmare that might be waiting for me if I left.

Things came to a head the day he graphically told me how he planned on killing me. I had been praying for a sign of whether to stay or go and figured I couldn't get a much bigger one than that. We'd shared a business which I basically gave to him to get out of the relationship. I went from fairly well off to being poor but the relief that I went through was worth it. There was no nightmare waiting for me but I had no way of knowing that at the time. Instead, my life got better in almost every respect.

I am sure that there are those who cling to a bad BDSM relationship the way that I clung to my marriage. Many people are afraid of being alone. They will withstand abuse and neglect rather than to be without any attention at all. Experts say that a child would rather receive negative attention than none at all; that's why sometimes a child will act up out of the blue. They are looking for a response. I feel that growing up doesn't change that basic instinct. Many in abusive situations justify the things being done to them and take the ultimate blame. They are thankful that the person even cares enough about them to keep them in the relationship.

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/14/2009 3:23:04 PM

Prinsexx

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Whats the difference between a good ds relationship and a bad one
when it becomes an addiction rather then a true power exchange.
what way do i mean addiction. When a dom or domme or even a sub is abusive or they can not function with out it. whats your version of a healthy dynamic

Addiction... let me see....i've an addictive personality so they say... that's because i have that sort of hedonistic post-war personality...child of the sixties... who, to be quite honest felt sick and tired of the austerities of War having been imposed upon me and all that went with it. So having been jettisoned into the sheer pleasure of pleasure i got caught up in the materialism of Thather's '80's. I love the irony of Lilly's song: and I'm packing plastic... that;s what makes my life so fuckin fantastic.....
of course those lines are irony however i don't do poverty, or austerity as well as my conscience would want me to. Pills to take the dhe off pain, macDonald's to take the edge off humber, promiscuoty to take the edhe off loneliness..... tele to take the edge off having to be intelligent for a living....
BDSM ? well there's a tendency for it to come packaged the same way... fasionista sister, in a strobe lit bass and drum club somewhere...
except there's a point in life when addiction loses it's thrill because tolerance rakes the hit away.... hard drugs and AIDS have taken away so many of my friends and many many more of my generation then will ever be known to me intimately.
now i get a hit off abstention and value comes not in readily available pain or indeed pleasure... but the realisation that preciousness lies in rarity. I'm glad to still be alive and well after all the abuse i have put this body of mine through and every single second spent in the presence of my Master being bliss.
I'm just grateful to still be alive and licking.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 4/14/2009 3:25:16 PM >

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/14/2009 7:21:01 PM

pompeii

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From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
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For me, a "good" D/s relationship is where each party gets out of the play what they need and desire and crave and enjoy ...

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RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/15/2009 12:02:01 AM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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*waves to Calla before beginning*

This is kind of tricky. The whole "addiction" option is a bit of a red herring. Emotional health is actually based on subjective parameters. There cannot realistically be universal parameters to judge when we would consider one thing to be 'addictive' and another 'healthy'. Despite the fact that there are multitudes of variables that can be brought in to question an individual's capacity for competent thought, at some point you surrender the reins by considering someone of sound mind...at which point, only their genuine assessment of their relationship matters.

The trick, I think, is catching people lying to themselves about whether they're getting what they want...but that's a huge gray area to romp through.

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I know they're all insane
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Post #: 19

RE: bdsm relationships and addictions - 4/15/2009 11:58:45 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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if you have to lie to yourself then it truely is a bad thing and the person should take time and break from bdsm or nilla to evaluate what it is they truely are seeking

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Post #: 20

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