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kinkme43 -> mostly for the male subs (4/13/2009 3:55:20 PM)
I am currently in a relationship where this type of lifestyle is something we are wanting to try. I feel like deep down inside I ache to be dominant and he wants to submit, but struggles with a few issues(ie, ego and the fact that he is somewhat afraid of giving up that control) It is something we've had lots of deep conversation with, but I also wanted to get some info from you... more male subs who completely submit. Do you or did you ever feel that there was any issue giving up that control(maybe in the very beginning)? And if so, how did it change? Was there something a Domme did? I'm up for any discussion, and where ever this might go... Thanks! :)

LPslittleclip -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/13/2009 4:55:32 PM)
so far i haven't had issues in giving up control but more being over enthusiastic when i get excited. i did have some jealousy issues when i first watched my M'lady play with another for the first time after i was hers. if i may suggest that you find a similar couple the give you some mentoring in the lifestyle. now each dynamic will be different mind so don't expect things to go the same way for yours. the dominance and submission are based on trust and honesty. discussing and watching public play will help you find things that will work for yours.i wish you well on your journey.

beargonewild -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/13/2009 5:04:41 PM)
I have to admit that there had been a few times where I had struggled with myself giving up the control which was expected from me in a prior relationship. Even with open communication and a good level of trust that was in place, it still was an issue. I had to step back for a period of time to examine what the root cause was and where it was coming from. For me and what I found was I was pushing myself too far and too fast. I guess in many ways I was like a kid in a candy shop, I wanted everything to fall in place asap and wasn't allowing the submission to grow and deepen at it's own pace.

lovingpet -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/13/2009 7:38:42 PM)
I cannot answer as a male, but I think what I have to say will be useful anyway. For some of us, submission is a lot to accept. The whole lifestyle thing is a monster unto itself. It is a lot to come to terms with. I think there is a lot of internal processing that has to occur before things can progress beyond fantasy or light, momentary play. There are a lot of mental strongholds and I somehow doubt they are really what they seem to be from the outside. It is a turmoil of trying to rectify the self of now and the self of not that long ago. Further, in an established couple, there is a new skill set and trust demand that did not exist before. You will have to build these new aspects of your relationship and it will not happen overnight. I am not saying at all that you are not a loving, trusting couple as is. I am saying that some rope and a flogger changes a lot of things. Until he can trust you in those ways (see you practice your craft, researching new play, and encouraging him to do likewise), he is not apt to be able to give control because he doesn't know what you can or want to do with it. There is also the question of how far you both want to take things. Without establishing the acceptable boundaries, he can feel that he will be encroached upon in ways that are not healthy for him or are unrealistic in his everyday life. Is this going to be bedroom only or more? How much more? What about things like work decisions? His family life? His other associations (religion, politics, and more)? There are a lot of things to determine and until they are agreed upon it is a bit difficult to just assume that things will be as he needs them to be. You are doing the right thing. Communication, communication, communication. Continue with that and begin to build the rest as well. I wish you all the best on this path and hope it will bring you closer as a couple! lovingpet

ServingYou123 -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/15/2009 12:51:39 AM)
Speaking as a first time collared male sub, and hopefully the last, let me say this: It wasn't that it was hard to give up control during the hot kinky bedroom kind of stuff, but what followed took some time to get used to. My Miss has the final say in pretty much everything, though it took me a bit of time to understand that she wasn't going to exercise that control all of the time. I am quite alpha outside of our relationship, and I think that is something that attracted her in the first place. I now know that all of the things that I consider important to me are still there, though there has been some "tweaking". Communicate, communicate, communicate! I was lucky that my Miss stressed this over and over, and now I have to say, I would be lost without her. She makes me complete and give me something to strive for every day. I can't imagine ever being without her. Hope this helps some and good luck!

iwearpanties -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/15/2009 2:53:34 AM)
i a long time sub male here i have subbed to both Females and Male and i have Domed feamles but never other males . Maybe your other half might feel he lose connection to his Dom side and want too sub more or he may even fear he enjoy it too much and seek it more often to sub rather then Dom. But i think some one did say hear each person is very duffrent in how the react or handle certin things . You may have to tyr thuigns and see how it feels or do as the say kinda go with the flow .....

DesFIP -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/15/2009 4:36:55 AM)
Are you trustworthy to give control over to? Because it's one thing for you to want control, it's another for you to have proved you handle it well. Do you? Do you keep your word always? Not just when it's convenient? Do you think before making a promise? Do you have a history of making good decisions? How do you handle it when you make a mistake? Do you yell and scream to get your own way or are you in control of yourself? Lots of nonkink reasons why someone might not want to give up control.

housesub4you -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/15/2009 4:49:31 AM)
Giving up control.... How long have you been together? I have served and have never given up all control in a first meeting or in a couple of weeks. But as trust develops over time, it is a slow process of not giving up control, but rather giving yourself to Her more and more with time. If someone just came out and said..turn your entire life over to me and do everything I say no questions asked....how far do you think that relationship would go? Just look at some of the past referneces to "Domes" on this sight doing just that in their profile

Vinmier -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/15/2009 5:34:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkme43] I am currently in a relationship where this type of lifestyle is something we are wanting to try. I feel like deep down inside I ache to be dominant and he wants to submit, but struggles with a few issues(ie, ego and the fact that he is somewhat afraid of giving up that control) I personally worried more about what my friends and coworkers would think. I work as a plumber, a 'good ol boy' atmosphere. So bending to my Ladys will would make me the butt of jokes and such. Outside the home, she's my girlfriend, but inside the home, it's readily apparent who wears the pants, so to speak. When we're out, I give her the respect she deserves, and it's not obvious to people around us. quote: ORIGINAL: kinkme43] It is something we've had lots of deep conversation with, but I also wanted to get some info from you... more male subs who completely submit. This is a very good start. When my Lady adn I started, she had some small requests that I completed daily. Such as, stretching, logging when I went for a cigarette (she's keeping my smoking to a minimum). She also had me reading daily, and other tasks that wouldn't detract from anything I had going on. All the things are meant to broaden my horizons, and also to see how well I would respond to her asking things of me. Our conversations on the topic of my submission were long and thought out, and if I had a problem with anything, I was able to voice my concern and we would come to an agreement. quote: ORIGINAL: kinkme43] Do you or did you ever feel that there was any issue giving up that control(maybe in the very beginning)? And if so, how did it change? Was there something a Domme did? There was never an issue of me giving up control, even in the beginning which started online. When I moved in with her, we began a 24/7 D/s relationship which is continuing on strong. I think the key points to speak with your boyfriend is that it's nothing to just rush into. Small things count a lot early on, and I find that I do more for her without being asked, than she had originally thought I'd do. She mentioned it the other day, and I was rather proud. It's like any other relationship, take it slow and let it develope itself. As long as the communication between you two is strong, then there won't be any misconceptions, or at least keep the misconceptions to a minimum. I hope this helped you both. :) Vinmier

Dastan -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/15/2009 7:20:42 AM)
I guess it shouldn't be me speaking but I guess my own insight can be useful for the forum. My country isn't known for its emphasis on teaching some things, seeing them as being tolerant to weakness and failure and mercy is one of such things, when applied to other people's differences. I live ina constant war environment and our life here makes us, as men, be strong, a mix between MacGyver and El Zorro, so to speak. We are taught from infancy, and whipped properly to learn it, to hold doors open, pull a chair for a lady and a lot of manners and etiquette, even in the poorest socioeconomical stratae, but God forbid we should ever kneel and kiss our lover's boots and get spanked or serve as "weak". I had a bad experience in BDSM telling my "secret" to a perosn who hurt me and worse, still bear those marks. But later, I engaged in some relationships, which although temporary in the same way of a "summer fling", if not a one-night stand, allowed me to understand people and myself better. So it helped me understand more the fears I had and the hopes too and draw a good line to know the ins and out of this curvy path along the edge I chose. Normally it is all about the image and the whole respectability of keeping appearances. Mr Vinmier surely put it in clear words in his post. A man as a sub-male wants respect. It's important that, no matter how much you kneel and grovel and debase yourself playing with a person yuo love, you don't feel that there is such a separation, such a gap that makes you feel as if you were of a lesser worth as a human being to Her or anyone else. It's all appearances. I had a great, loved Domme who called me every insult from curses to racist slurs because of my nationality and race, while making me kneel, crawl, slither and worse with the most pathetic and weak aspect I could offer as a sight in the attire chosen, in the most humiliating and degradating games to show me control through very debasing tasks, being it all consensual, but with such trust in their ability to honor the power and control I gave them, by never meaning what they said, or aiming to harm me, even if trying to hurt me the most with their instruments, that I felt ok with the control given to them. Perhaps it is that the trust of the relationship turns the play into a safe haven for a part of your mind and your soul, allowing you to feel perfetly well letting go of all manners and measures of control and transfering it over to Her. Knowing she may hurt me, for our pleasure, but never harm me or mean it as a bad thing, makes me feel that anything is possible and everything is acceptably delicious, no matter how much I bleed or tire or lower myself for Her. My only issue at the beginning of the relationship was bondage. being tied up brought back ugly things in me, and the fact we were trained since youth to resist and escape under such situations, coupled with a sad incident, amde me suffer a lot when she tied me up. Also, the way she used to control me in public made me look "pussy whipped" as you say, and explaining her why i felt bad, why it hurt me in the wrong way, made her explain to me her goal, how and why she expected it to give us a stronger foundation and above all, it was more than the trust i had in her, the fact she was willing to change to protect me, what made me see it was ok and that I could move past it. But then again, it might not be the story for others.

pixelslave -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/16/2009 8:04:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkme43 Do you or did you ever feel that there was any issue giving up that control(maybe in the very beginning)? And if so, how did it change? Was there something a Domme did? In my experience, one doesn't give up control all at once, nor do they necessarily give up complete control of all aspects of their life unless they're a slave. Generally speaking, it's all negotiable. In a new relationship or a new dynamic such as the one you're trying to establish, it needs to be done slowly. A person can't go from being responsible for essentially everything in their life to turning control of all of it over to someone else overnight. That's just too much change at once that you'll both likely find overwhelming. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m24.gif[/image] I suggest you start with one particular area that the two of you have negotiated which your partner feels comfortable giving you control of and starting with that. You may also want to establish particular rituals or behaviors you want him to do when he's with you or at certain times of the day to help establish your control and dominance. In your discussions, hopefully you've talked about each other's strengths and weaknesses. IMO, it makes no sense for you to take control of something that he excells at and you don't. [8\|] I suggest you also ask yourself if you want to micromanage him? He'll have his feelings about that as well which you'll want him to freely express. IMO, if you're wise, you'll give him his assignments and trust him do them according to the guidelines you've set, instead of managing each detail. If you want things done a certain way, of course, feel free to tell him, but there's no need to constantly look over his shoulder to supervise. I think you'll find the latter will be far too much work for you and you'll tire of it with time. Many men will find such oversight stressful for them, although some may thrive on the attention. Presumably your partner is competent to perform the tasks you'll be assigning him and won't need that kind of oversight. Once you've established the areas the two of you feel comfortable with your eventually taking control of based on how you feel at this time, I suggest you start slowly in the area where you've agreed you'll begin, then gradually begin to exert your dominance in some of the other areas. In that manner it will be transparent to him and feel much more natural as it occurs over time. Remember, you can always take a "time out" and renegotiate things at any time things aren't working for one or the other of you or feel as though they're moving too fast. Taking control (and turning it over) is something that experienced Dommes and subs will tell you takes time and patience. It's going to be an adjustment for both of you. However, in just a few months, you'll look back and realize how far the two of you have come. [:D] Over time, as your partner becomes more comfortable letting go of the control and develops trust with your having that control, you may discover he's more than willing to let you have control over additional areas beyond what the two of you initially negotiated. [;)] I hope this helps. [&:] - pixel

kinkme43 -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/16/2009 8:11:39 AM)
I appreciate everyones thoughts... I haven't had time to respond to each one, and now that there are so many, I feel overwhelmed.. lol But each thought and suggestion has been noted. We have been together again for over a year now, but this type of lifestyle is new. We do have a good sense of trust with each other, but I completely understand his hesitation. I definitely don't want to micro manage. Nor do I want to have the final say on when and what he does and who he does it with. I suppose that yes, we will start small, on things we have both agreed to and find comfortable... and see where that leads us... And I continue to be interested and excited to hear the thoughts of a sub! Thanks!

dreamerdreaming -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/16/2009 11:59:35 AM)
HI PIXEL! OP, a certain amount of trust can be given before the rest must be earned. At a year into your relationship you should have enough trust to begin with, but remember that your sub will need to be able to trust you very deeply in order to risk the kind of vulnerable positions (physically and emotionally) that a sub may be put in. So just keep on actively earning his trust, every day. Show by your actions, that you are worthy of it. Be patient. Trust takes time, to develop. Take time. And be patient with yourself, too. Don't feel that you hafta be a cardboard Domme, just be yourself. And let him make suggestions! Him making his needs and desires clear to you is not topping from the bottom, as long as he does it in a way that is acceptable to you. Communicate, explore and have FUN! steps down off soapbox

kinkme43 -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/16/2009 5:48:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming Don't feel that you hafta be a cardboard Domme, just be yourself. And let him make suggestions! Him making his needs and desires clear to you is not topping from the bottom, as long as he does it in a way that is acceptable to you. Thanks dreamer... I specifically liked what you had to say here :)

dreamerdreaming -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/16/2009 7:32:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkme43 quote: ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming Don't feel that you hafta be a cardboard Domme, just be yourself. And let him make suggestions! Him making his needs and desires clear to you is not topping from the bottom, as long as he does it in a way that is acceptable to you. "Thanks dreamer... I specifically liked what you had to say here :)" Yeah I made sure to tell you that last bit because when I was very new (to this side of the slash- I had always been submissive myself until a few years ago) I never felt like I had to be anyone else's idea of a Domme... But I guess I was really insecure and felt threatened when my boy would suggest things he'd thought about or even just try to bring up topics he'd read about. I got all pissed off and somehow felt that he didn't trust me to take care of his needs properly. I was hurt and offended, and accused him of trying to top from the bottom. But it wasn't that at all. He was just letting me know his thoughts and ideas, and trying to draw out my thoughts and ideas...and he was seeking my reassurances. So when I got all hurt and offended, this had the opposite effect. Instead of being reassured, he was alarmed. Then of course he sought reassurances again, and of course in my insecurity I was offended and hurt even more, responded in anger again, which only made him more afraid, and we descended into a downward cycle of this dysfunctional communication on a number of occasions. It sucked, and is one of the few things I really regret about how I handled things in the beginning. I might have lost him. So I always try to tell new dominants that it takes time to trust, and you need to trust him too and let him feel comfortable with bringing up ideas of his own. Trust and reassure each other and don't feel threatened or insecure if he needs a lot of reassurances. Ask for his reassurances, too when you need them. Let him help you build confidence. Thank you for giving me the chance to elaborate on this point.

SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/16/2009 7:54:48 PM)
I have had issues with my submission in the past, and probably still do. I've always been part of those misogynistic subcultures that young men are part of like sports teams and a fraternity. I've always been a type A, masculine, jock type guy, so the idea of completely giving up control is something that I need, but flies in the face of how I was raised, so it's difficult. One of the things I think is important is to reinforce how much you love both sides to him. That you love the fact that he <insert traditional male role stereotype here> while at the same time you also love the fact that <insert male submissive stereotype here>. I used to have a girlfriend who would come up to me while at a friend's house, where the guys would be playing poker in the basement and the girls would be doing whatever it is you girls do upstairs, and she'd whisper much it turned her on that I was sitting at a table winning money that she would spend whatever she'd like...maybe even panties for me. Part of the strength of submission for me is to know it's because I want to, not because I'm just weak, I would imagine most other men are like that. Conversely, I'm sure that you will feel it important for him to remind you how much he loves you as his friend, girlfriend and partner, rather than just his dominant. These roles, as powerful as they may be, are just part of the whole picture, so making sure that each other realizes how much the rest of them is appreciated is important.

pixelslave -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/17/2009 9:30:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SlaveBlutarsky I have had issues with my submission in the past, and probably still do. I think most men have trouble becoming comfortable with the fact that they're submissives until they reach a certain amount of maturity and have also done enough self reflection to understand that part of themselves. A man being submissive in general flies in the face of the typical stereotype of men in our society; even moreso when it's a woman that he's submissive to! quote: One of the things I think is important is to reinforce how much you love both sides to him. That you love the fact that he <insert traditional male role stereotype here> while at the same time you also love the fact that <insert male submissive stereotype here>. Doesn't everyone want to be loved unconditionally for who they are at any given point in time; not just for their potential as a human being or one part of their personality? [8\|] quote: I used to have a girlfriend who would come up to me while at a friend's house, where the guys would be playing poker in the basement and the girls would be doing whatever it is you girls do upstairs, and she'd whisper much it turned her on that I was sitting at a table winning money that she would spend whatever she'd like...maybe even panties for me. Nice way to have one's s-buttons pushed in public without anyone knowing that also reinforces the dynamic. [:D] I'd add one thing to your post in particular as regards to being in public around "the boys" or others friends a male sub may have that he's not "out" to. Simply being a gentleman and telling them that's what you're doing when taking care of your Mistress' needs and desires is one way of being submissive to her that's still socially acceptable without being outed as a submissive. It will also make her girlfriends jealous of the attention she receives and the other men appear as though they don't know how to be attentive of the women in their lives; likely creating some grief for them later. [sm=biggrin.gif] That also allows the dynamic to continue in non-kink social situations by following any "vanilla behavior protocols" the D/s couple might decide to establish; in doing so, reinforcing and strengthening their dynamic without anyone being the wiser. To the rest of the world, the male submissive is simply being a gentleman with exceptional manners by being an attentive partner to the woman in his life. He can even ask her something like "Are you all set with what you need before I go off with the other guys to watch the game?" (play cards, etc) or "Do you need your drink refilled before I go to the restroom?", using that as an indirect way of asking her for her permission to do something if asking for permission to do those kinds of things is part of the couples agreed upon dynamic. [;)] quote: Part of the strength of submission for me is to know it's because I want to, not because I'm just weak, I would imagine most other men are like that. I'd hope it would also make you more desirable to your Domme as well. [;)] Why would she want a man to submit to her who has no power or self-value to give her in his submission? - pixel Returns the "hi" to dreamerdreaming [:D]

dreamerdreaming -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/17/2009 11:08:10 AM)
Welcome home, cutie! Don't ever leave me again. [;)]

PeonForHer -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/17/2009 12:05:52 PM)
Kate, I'm just starting out, so the practice of it's new to me, too. As a sub, I'd want things to be taken slowly, involve a lot of communication, and negotiation of boundaries. Which parts of his life do you want to control and how far? Bedroom only, bedroom and domestic life; bedroom, domestic and social life; all the aforementioned, plus his work and career life? Those are the sorts of things I, for one, would want to discuss.

aravain -> RE: mostly for the male subs (4/17/2009 1:36:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkme43 We have been together again for over a year now, but this type of lifestyle is new. If you're a dominant personality in general, and he's a submissive personality, I doubt it's quite as new to you as you think... It sounds to me (from what limited insight I have through your posts) that what you want is the whole 'shebang' from a dominant/submissive style of relationship (using that as an umbrella [:D]), but you don't know quite where to start... I'd say start right where you're at, and go slowly. Institute a protocol of sorts (this is coming from someone who hates explicit protocol, but even if it's just requiring that he say 'please' and 'thank you' when asking you to do something for him (and know that you may say no) and must request to do things like change the channel on the television when you're in the room it can have a profound effect) and let that sit and hang there for a few weeks. Since you've only been together for a year I wouldn't suggest you necessarily take over his financials or anything like that, but maybe delegate some of your financial responsibilites to him (like filling out taxes would have been a good one). (I don't know how kinky either of you wants to get, but if you want to go there at all in addition to D/S I'd suggest doing just one thing, every month or so, different, that plays to a kink, in the bedroom... be it a touch of roleplay that brings you to spanking him, or giving him various orders to do sexual things. To me, that's the easiest way to 'ease into' kink because between each session there's all the normal encounters we have... which just makes me want the kink more, that sort of thing. It's also wonderful for 'testing the waters' if either of you don't quite know exactly what your limits are) Without knowing more about you or him, and exactly what type of 'lifestyle' you're looking to fashion any more advice (and, indeed, a fair bit of what I've already given) would be a waste of text :) ~aravain (who has a strange outlook on some of this stuff)

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