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Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 12:31:41 PM   
Supershovel83


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I'm really curious if only for the raw thought and truth of it. We're all human and are prone to make a mistake at some point. I once shared my sub with a friend she did not wish to be shared with. I was selfish and limited in my thinking. The next day I felt so much remorse for not living up to my own expectations and personal code of honor that I actually brutally punished myself in front of "Pet" to demonstrate an acceptance and responsibility for my actions. Scared her so badly that she has never spoken of it since and I actually feel she has restrained herself from ever questioning my intentions toward our relationship. I searched all over the net and did not find a reference to such an occurence. I know it's out of the typical character of a dom in the lifestyle but understand we are 24/7 Dom/sub power exchange w/o the pain aspect. At the time I felt it necessary and will stand by my decision. I did not post this to be judged or heckled. I merely want to know if there are any doms who have ever put themselves in an uncomfortable place to teach a lesson or reaffirm a damaged relationship to be made whole again? Input would be welcome. If someone has found a new approach besides the obvious, selfish and juvenile approach of denying mistakes, I'd like to hear.
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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 12:35:10 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Sure, they beat themselves up a lot internally. They agonize over whether they are making the right choice, get down on themselves when something goes wrong, try in vain sometimes to solve a problem that really doesn't have a solution...people punish themselves all the time.

As far as what YOU did- that seems a bit weird. I remember the first play party I ever went to with more than one of my boys in attendance. I was SO nervous and worried. My owner pulled me aside and reminded me that they would be looking to ME to set the tone for the evening and that if I looked worried, that would just make them certain that there was something to be worried over.

This doesn't mean doms have to become inhuman rocks of steels (many novices make that mistake), but it does mean that you don't just fall apart and make the situation worse than it is.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Supershovel83)
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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 12:38:16 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This is one of the areas that is much harder for a dom than a sub. Although it hurts to be punished, psychologically it is a lot easier to go through life knowing that your dom will simply punish you if you do anything wrong. But what are you supposed to do if you're the dom and there is no one to punish you? You have to be your own master. Few people I know have learned how to be their own master.

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 12:42:54 PM   
Supershovel83


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info. Actually I may not have conveyed that appropriately. I was a bit overwhelmed at the time but certainly not self destructive. I carry the weight of responsibility for us both and expect her submission and complete trust in all things I do or think. I'm probably the least emotional or passionate person alive and strive to always live to my own standards. When you make a mistake of enormous scale is it really ok to be able to just say I'm going to be punishing myself inside?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 12:47:49 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Supershovel83
When you make a mistake of enormous scale is it really ok to be able to just say I'm going to be punishing myself inside?

Depending on your theory of learning- that's the only punishment that actually works.

Tons of bdsm couples don't use punishment in their dynamic at all- they have no need or desire for it and they work just fine and dandy.

Tons of slaves will tell you that the physical punishment is really nothing to do with the dynamic- what matters is the INNER desire to serve, the INNER feelings of disappointment. If the feelings aren't there already, no amount of external punishment will change anything.

Frankly I think punishment tends to be overrated and blithely used and misunderstood. Punishment, while effective if used well, should be a last resort when dealing with behavior management.

If you feel you need absolution for something, then go to it. It's much better than ignoring it, or hiding it or blaming it on someone else. Just make sure you are truly absolving yourself and working on the SOURCE of the issue.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 1:04:40 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Those who know me well, have come to realize that when I screw up, I am harder on myself than anyone else could be as far as tearing a new arsehole (No not literally). If the screw up involves others I will immediately apologise and then fid ways in which I can make amends if possible. I certainly learn from my mistakes. However, one incident comes to mind. I had built a 40’ x 40’ room addition to my then house which for outside people appeared a family room but was in fact our pagan temple. The floor was 6’ reinforced concrete. Following a blue with my ex and finding out I was entirely wrong, instead of waiting for the next day to borrow a diamond tip water cooled cement power cement saw, to cut an 18” square hole for access to a drain, I used an angle grinder with masonry blade, a brickies bolster (Wide bladed cold chisel thingie) and a 5lb brickies hammer and spent the rest of the day manually cutting the hole. I remember that when my ex came home she found mew cleaning up the rubble and leaving blood on the floor from knuckles on both hands skinned. The hands hurt like hell after but honour and pride were satisfied. Usually I’d just go out with a splitter and split 4’ red gum logs for the fire or something physical.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 1:05:47 PM   
Supershovel83


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, a studied psych major or road scholar indeed. Your words are not lost to me in any way and are thought provoking to say the least. I need to offer an additional insight however, not to debate your perspective but to offer some additional raw thought. Yes, my actions may have been on the extreme side but in doing so offered my sub the reassurance she needed in a more tangible and obvious way. In our relationship physical demonstrations are a VERY rare occurance. They are a means to an end, in that they are only used in times of the most intense correction. Never during an emotional time or with a distressed mindframe. Never abuse. They are the obvious icons which represent actions never to be repeated. Lying is one of those offenses. I would offer the christian symbol of a crucifix as a reminder to many in that faith. I'm generally very proactive in educational exercises which will bring about new found confidence and understanding to further prevent reoccurrances. Make sense? I desperately need another cup of coffee before I really try and converse any further. lol

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 1:18:29 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

and I actually feel she has restrained herself from ever questioning my intentions toward our relationship.


Can you elaborate on this more? This is the part that troubles me. I worry that she's doing it out of fear of the consequences and not out of any real sense of security.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Supershovel83)
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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 1:30:36 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
I don't see this as a binary thing. Doing physical harm or
quote:

the obvious, selfish and juvenile approach of denying mistakes


For myself, I don't believe in physical punishment for myself or for others. What I want is a deep understanding that something has been done wrong and an equally zealous intent never to let it happen again.

For illustration, I'll draw on an incident early in my officer training at the Platoon Leader School. I was an acting sergeant during a field exercise and misread a map, leading my squad into a minefield and getting us all administratively killed.

The next day at morning formation the Colonel called the squad to the front. He had them line up abreast and I was ordered to walk down the line, making a left face at each individual and look him into the eyes. As I went down the line a Gunnery Sergeant accompanied me and said "This man is dead because of your carelessness." By the end, I could barely stand. Each man later came up and reassured me that "it was just a mistake," but I had changed in a way no punitive or administrative judgement could possibly have.

It isn't the mistake, it isn't the punishment, it's the desire to never repeat the mistake that leads to growth.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 2:03:46 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		There have been several threads here and on other boards about "who punishes the Dominant?".

As usual I'll pose the questions I find relevent and let people answer them to themsleves.

1. Who are we accountable to?
2. Was someone else damaged who needs/deserves compensation?
3. Is punishment really needed?
4. Is it really a grand gesture, designed for something other than getting the intended message accross?

Many times people will set up a grand gesture to dirve home a 6 penny nail with a jackhammer, I always question the motivations of anyone peerforming a grand gesture to show me anything.

Punishment in my view is a matter of compensation/ a price for the misdeed and as such is only part of a dicsipline system including much more than just punishment.

As Dominants we are accountable to ourselves first of all and as such any punishment representing compensation is 0 sum equassion material.

It seems to me that a grand gesture punishment for a Dominant is an attempted shortcut to rebuilding trust.

It may not be your intent to have tried to shortcut that process, but that is the impression I get.


Dominant's punish themselves all the time usually mentally and usually in silence.
We pay the price to ourselves because that's who we are accountable to.

Just my opinions and worth what you paid me for them

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to Supershovel83)
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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 2:09:12 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		MOST definately.
The comment "The buck stops here" is VERY true in this case.
Being humans and not all "UBER-DOM" we are prone to fears,unknown responses to actions or commands, and the care and best interests of our slaves.


_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to Supershovel83)
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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 3:12:33 PM   
Supershovel83


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I know it must be a very common topic on boards such as this but I found the lack of information on it very disturbing and so felt compelled to make an inquiry. I agree the behavior and motivations were perhaps very narrow sighted and aimed at a speedy resolution to regain faith. Not necessarily a bad, false or wrong approach on the road to regain and rebuild. Who's to say? We are very new to this lifestyle and have both struggled to make sense of the world when viewed through these particularly colorful spectacles. I'm not a weekend warrior nor am I a role player. I'm very serious about the commitment I offer and the expectations I have in return. I have found a great relief to find such a noble, blunt and honest group of people involved in caring of the highest caliber. In my humble opinion, true warmth, love, honesty, acceptance, and responsibility can rarely be found in any form in this world. A little pessimistic but just my experience. I'm very thankful to all who respond to this. Food for thought cannot even describe what your minds have presented me with today. This thread is not a lot of fluff or an attempt for attention. It is VALUABLE to me. My thanks.

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/30/2006 3:28:00 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		The last one that went out with me ... would probably say yes.

(in reply to Supershovel83)
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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/31/2006 2:32:40 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		When I screw up, I don't punish myself in any physical sense (lol) and I don't need anyone telling me I screwed up because the prick in the mirror is a hard task master who will not let me forget what happened. Actually, it's one of the rare occasions when I truly understand how and why submissives dread the eyes of a disapproving Dom....

Focus.

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/31/2006 3:24:09 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Whilst quite often laid back and with a good sense of humour I do tend to expect a lot out of people, business dealings, friendships and yes relationships. Some have said I expect too much and maybe they are right but there is one person that I hold to far higher expectations, one person I am far less forgiving of.... Myself.

I don't do the big dramatic gestures, frankly with the relationships I have had such would have only made things worse.

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/31/2006 4:59:30 AM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline 		Ummmmmmmm Yeah, >>>>>>>>>>> MARRIAGE

LOL

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/31/2006 5:33:11 PM   
Petruchio


Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline 		I'm with IronBear. Nothing physical, but I beat myself up (internally) when I screw up.

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 1/31/2006 10:47:29 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself?


How can you be a Dom if you don't or can't dominate yourself?

I'm twice as hard on myself as I am on my pet. Though I may not inflict physical abuse other than an occassional slap on the head, I will re evaluate the situation and learn from the mistake. After that, I may want to give up something as a sort of fasting punishment. Certain foods, shows, time on the net, hot water and such normally suffice.

Whatever you do, it's best to move on quickly.



_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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RE: Is there ever a case where a dom punishes himself? - 2/1/2006 5:11:08 AM   
ayasha


Posts: 149
Joined: 12/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Supershovel83

The next day I felt so much remorse for not living up to my own expectations and personal code of honor that I actually brutally punished myself in front of "Pet" to demonstrate an acceptance and responsibility for my actions. Scared her so badly that she has never spoken of it since and I actually feel she has restrained herself from ever questioning my intentions toward our relationship.


If this one saw her Master brutally punish Himself, one would feel He had lost control of Himself. That would be terrifying to this one. If, after He calmed down from the situation that made Him feel this way, He sat down and discussed it with this one, that would be OK. one does not expect her Master to physically punish Himself. one would hope that, if He felt it absolutely necessary, He would not do it in front of this one, and not tell this one about it. Some things are just not meant for a slave to see or hear. Maybe some slaves would deal well with it, but this one would not. one thinks it would be especially devastating to someone new to the lifestyle.

one appreciates the fact that You want to take full responsibility for not living up to Your own expectations and personal code of honor - and one would like to suggest that if there is a next time for this, that You discuss it first with a friend that is a Dominant. They would have a clear head, and be able to suggest ways to handle this that You might not have thought of Yourself.

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