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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 5:50:44 PM   
Cage03


Posts: 27
Joined: 1/2/2009
Status: offline 		Many of these practices of Islam are all pervasive. Female genital torture. The execution of  raped wives, etc... No. I have no respect at all for a group of people that condone such practices.

I also do not see much respect for our culture eminating from the Islam communities.

But it does not end there.

I am often not too proud of what occurs within our own communities. Perhaps we do not kill for such inane reasons as inferred above, but we sure as hell do not have a very good record when it comes to social management, and that is perhaps the underlying cause of so much misery within our own society.

Cage

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 5:53:38 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I know a lot, and I mean a lot, of Muslims. NONE of them practice such things, so you tell me: why do we make it sound like all Muslims are barbarians?

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:13:13 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

I know a lot, and I mean a lot, of Muslims. NONE of them practice such things, so you tell me: why do we make it sound like all Muslims are barbarians?


Kitttin, I know a few.  I know two that live here in my town; I'm friends with them.  I respect their beliefs.  Of those two, neither wishes to EVER return to their home country of Saudi Arabia.  Both are moderate Muslims, and are both like most of my Christian friends.  They drink, they have sex, and they are secular.  Neither they or my Christian friends support a theocracy.  The difference is, that my Muslim friends had to leave their homelands to escape theocracy.  We don't have that here, and we ridicule our religious leaders openly.  We don't have the Westboro Baptist loonies hanging gays in town square.  We don't have Christian fundamentalists executing a Methodist/Presbyterian couple for eloping.  Our culture is superior, and you'll never convince me otherwise.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 4/14/2009 7:20:56 PM >

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:24:51 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You make a mistake that is very typical of a Westerner, Slaveboy. There are Muslim cultures: notice the plural? There are hundreds of countries where Islam predominates. What you're doing is akin to incorporating Sweden and Peru in the same bag because they're predominantly Christian. You are, of course, free to have the opinions that you like, however misguided they may be. Sorry, but if I come across as irrate: that's because I am  .

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:38:43 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Let's not generalise, shall we? We all know where that leads.

Let's not lose track of what people actually said, shall we? We all know where that leads.

Slaveboy was talking about the Taliban, not "everybody who believes in Islam," in the post to which Polite replied asking, how could we expect people to respect our culture if we don't respect theirs. And I was "generalizing" about executing people who have harmed no one... in, errr, "general".
 
Kirata the Painter
 

 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/14/2009 7:45:00 PM >

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:44:20 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I'm glad you have clarified your position. I only hope everybody else follows suite  .

For slaveboy's eyes only: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-inventors-changed-the-world-469452.html

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:49:08 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Well damm Kittin I started the thread....but I said Taliban,we ok?

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:54:37 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Yep - talk to Cage03, he's responsible for diverting the thread ;-).

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:55:16 PM   
FangsNfeet


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Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Some peace treaty. That regional part of Pakistan had to make its official law according to the Talibans verson of Islamic Code. They did it more or less out of fear. Pakistan needs to grow a set.

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:56:31 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

CNN is reporting Pakistan has signed a peace deal with the Taliban.
Opinions please....


We made the same mistake this time with Musharrif that we made with the Shah of Iran back in the day. Musharrif was not the most pro American ally we could have but in a country like Pakistan where a lot of the people hated that he aided us at all and would rather he have helped the taliban instead, he was about the best we could have hoped for. Now though I believe we will see Pakistan start to move toward extreme Islam. This might be just the start of it. I don't see any good coming from this but time will tell.

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 7:59:26 PM   
ReverendJim


Posts: 43
Joined: 4/13/2009
Status: offline 		The Taliban would not have been where they are today without the sponsorship of the Mujahidin by Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.A shit load of money will not change history,nor will a penny of it have ever be returned in form other than vengeance.The scumbags as described here are the long term end result of an Anglo American sponsorship deal and we all need to learn to live (or die) with that.

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 8:05:05 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You all miss the point here. The governor of the province concerned said the killings were an insult to Islam. Im not condoning killing, just saying lets not tar everyone with the same brush.


Indeed so.  The popular myth is that the coalition forces are "in control" of the territory in question.  In reality, many parts haven't seen an elected official in months, if ever, and the military presence ranges from slim to none.

Talk of "superior cultures" is all well and good.  But, without the rule of law (which most of us take for granted), people tend to do what the chap holding the AK47 tells them to, on the very reasonable grounds that, if they don't, he and his friends will happily shoot an entire family stone dead.

Is that the fault of Islam, as a religion?  I doubt it.

It's more likely that it's the fault of governments who choose to send troops to war without having the first idea of what the territory, enemy and situation are actually like. 

Does the above make me a pro-Islam extremist?  Frankly, anything but.  I treat all forms of extremism with the same contempt - Christian (anyone here keen on the KKK?  Thought not, but imagine if they were held up as representative of western Christian ideals), extremist Communist (not technically a religion, but to all intents and purposes it has acted as one at times in fairly recent history) or even secular (do I condone "Loyalist" bombings in northern Ireland, merely because I'm not a Catholic?  Of course I don't).

Until people, and their leaders, manage to understand that you can't "rule" a country with a few thousand troops, until they understand that hate is not a doctrine that ever achieves anything, long term (be it for "Christian" or "Islamic" or secular "values"), and until we stop seeing these events in such simplistic terms, we are doomed to failure, and to fail those far, far less advantaged than ourselves.
 

As a stark example of what life is like on the ground, and you'll have to read between the lines a bit, people could do a lot worse than watch the following:

http://thebox.bz/details.php?id=73771

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 8:07:27 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I refuse to respect a culture like that, and I don't give a flying fuck if they respect my culture.  I don't want to negotiate with people like that, and I don't want to make peace with people like that.  I want people like that to be erased from existence. 


And this would be where your holy crusade starts but where would it end up. After someone else steps in to lead it after you, would you find yourself faced also with erasure from existence? If you are pure. then I guess you would have nothing to worry about. Funny, Likely because you have admitted you wish to corrupt their women and their way of life they would likely put you to death too. It would seem your goals are the same, you just differ on the criteria.

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Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

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Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 8:13:41 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I don't particularly like Fundies of any stripe,I respect belief...but literal interpretations of texts written at a time before reason in an age of superstition scare the shit out of me.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/14/2009 10:00:06 PM   
ReverendJim


Posts: 43
Joined: 4/13/2009
Status: offline 		Since when has there been reason?What is the reason?Call me superstitious out of ignorance but don't ever call me scared,fear is a habit you can keep for yourself,it will kill your mind.

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/15/2009 12:50:45 AM   
blacksword404


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Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I don't particularly like Fundies of any stripe,I respect belief...but literal interpretations of texts written at a time before reason in an age of superstition scare the shit out of me.


Yes text written before this current time period where not only do we want to annihilate each other hypocritical reasons but have also been dumb enough to give ourselves the ability. Reason indeed. Greater knowledge and greater reason, judging by the results of it do not result in greater intelligence but stupidity. Scare yourself all you want. But I would recommend you redirect your focus.

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Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/15/2009 12:50:56 AM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Why should I respect a culture that takes a young, [Romeo and Juliet-esque couple] doctor out and executes them for [being in love] performing an abortion?  I refuse to respect a culture like that, and I don't give a flying fuck if they respect my culture.  I don't want to negotiate with people like that, and I don't want to make peace with people like that.  I want people like that to be erased from existence.  I find it unbelievable that anyone would think we should reach out to scumbags that perpetrate and encourage these kinds of acts. 


(original in brackets, my substitutions in italics)

...if you want to judge a whole culture and all its people by the actions of a minority of bastards you may want, like charity, to start at home. And when you have wiped out every single culture on the planet i hope you have fun.


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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/15/2009 1:48:11 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Why should I respect a culture that takes a young, [Romeo and Juliet-esque couple] doctor out and executes them for [being in love] performing an abortion?

(original in brackets, my substitutions in italics)

Unh... regardless of your views on abortion, I don't think a doctor performing one is analogous to a young couple falling in love.
 
K.
 
 

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RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/15/2009 2:55:53 AM   
slvemike4u


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Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I don't particularly like Fundies of any stripe,I respect belief...but literal interpretations of texts written at a time before reason in an age of superstition scare the shit out of me.


Yes text written before this current time period where not only do we want to annihilate each other hypocritical reasons but have also been dumb enough to give ourselves the ability. Reason indeed. Greater knowledge and greater reason, judging by the results of it do not result in greater intelligence but stupidity. Scare yourself all you want. But I would recommend you redirect your focus.
So your okay with literal interpatations of ancient text's...better be real careful about that,they had peculiar rituals ,and were highly intolerant of those who did not adhere to them.Good luck with that.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Peace pact with the Taliban? - 4/15/2009 5:14:46 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Stellar post, Rapier.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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