RE: Control without Love?

RE: Control without Love? (Full Version)

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Joseff -> RE: Control without Love? (4/17/2009 7:16:44 PM)
I believe that many people don't understand the definition of LOVE. This is because it is difficult to define, if there was a better word for it, we wouldn't need the word love. I think many people confuse it with other emotions, like pity, passion, compassion, etc.... All this makes your question difficult to answer, some may not want love in their D/s relationship, but are equating love with romance or something. Others may truly understand what it is, and refuse it. After many years of life, I think I might be getting a handle on it, but its like art, you can't really describe it, but you know it when you see it. Now that I've thouroughly confused myself, and probably everyone else, here's how I define it, or at least narrow it down. Ever have someone tell you this: I love you, but not in that way? Well, I believe there is only one LOVE, and its the same for a sub, wife or mother, or anyone else you love, regardless of your relationship with them. For example, I love my mother, but I don't have passion for her, or romantic feelings for her. I suppose what I'm getting at, as far as this thread is concerned, is that you probably won't ever understand what is meant by it, because everyone means something unique to them. Or perhaps I'm just full of it.

GhostWhoWalks -> RE: Control without Love? (4/17/2009 8:57:42 PM)
No. You're not full of it. This makes sense. Thanks for sharing. quote: ORIGINAL: Joseff I believe that many people don't understand the definition of LOVE. This is because it is difficult to define, if there was a better word for it, we wouldn't need the word love. I think many people confuse it with other emotions, like pity, passion, compassion, etc.... All this makes your question difficult to answer, some may not want love in their D/s relationship, but are equating love with romance or something. Others may truly understand what it is, and refuse it. After many years of life, I think I might be getting a handle on it, but its like art, you can't really describe it, but you know it when you see it. Now that I've thouroughly confused myself, and probably everyone else, here's how I define it, or at least narrow it down. Ever have someone tell you this: I love you, but not in that way? Well, I believe there is only one LOVE, and its the same for a sub, wife or mother, or anyone else you love, regardless of your relationship with them. For example, I love my mother, but I don't have passion for her, or romantic feelings for her. I suppose what I'm getting at, as far as this thread is concerned, is that you probably won't ever understand what is meant by it, because everyone means something unique to them. Or perhaps I'm just full of it.

DesFIP -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 4:57:39 AM)
The people I've heard talk about this have not had this relationship be their primary. They compartmentalized their lives. They didn't live with the uncaring master, just saw him on their off days. They got their love, caring, romance and friendship from other people in their lives. In some ways, the visit to the master was like a tennis match, a game they enjoyed that was relegated to their spare time. They missed it if for some reason they couldn't go, but they also could happily say "see you in two weeks, I'm going to Hawaii for my vacation".

RavenMuse -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 5:12:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joseff some may not want love in their D/s relationship, but are equating love with romance or something. That is down to the OP setting the question in that light "I've seen some profiles by slaves, looking for a strict and controlling Master and specifically not anything soft or romantic." Thus setting from the start that HE was refering to the romantic claptrap aspect of 'love' As said, I certianly care for and about My girl but I am most certainly NOT 'in love' with her nor her with Me. That doesn't mean We don't have close tender moments.... why do you think one of the things she calls Me is 'Daddy'?.

InTonguesslut -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 5:24:28 AM)
quote: I've seen some profiles by slaves, looking for a strict and controlling Master and specifically not anything soft or romantic. *Puts hand up* That would be me. quote: I've also seen a few that at least implied they weren't looking for any affection whatsoever. Hmm i like a bit of affection, pat my head, tell me i'm a good girl but heaven forbid you wanna cuddle me for too long - yuk lol [:D] quote: What is the attraction to a slave, of being controlled by a harsh, strict Master who doesn't care about them? Why would you correlate not wanting romance and stuff and perhaps not needing much or any attention with a lack of caring? There has to be some 'care' in any BDSM relationship. Even if its just there is enough care not to break your 'toy' it's there. From a personal view point i really don't know why others may want 'that', but i do know why i want no romance, not too much attention, no soft stuff and most definately no love. It is plain and simply just not something i need or want.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 7:06:52 AM)
quote: What is the attraction to a slave, of being controlled by a harsh, strict Master who doesn't care about them? As someone who takes on servants in this situation, I would like to clarify that, just because there is no romantic relationship does -not- mean that the Keeper does not care for the servant in question. This presumes that the only way to care for someone is to be romantically involved with that person, and frankly, there are, historically, a broad swath of practitioners of WIITWD who do not have a romantic relationship with their servants and who still manage to care for them quite strongly. I, myself, have had several servants whom I now consider to be good friends, though there is nothing romantic between us, nor will there ever be. For most of my servants, our mutual attraction to the situation was pure authority transfer, without the background clutter that can be caused by the desire to nourish a romantic relationship, even when the authority-transfer relationship requires a firm, objective hand. Romance and affection limit the capacity to be completely objective about the process, as romance and affection are inherently subjective and color any situation into which they are 'stirred'. Non-romantic BDSM is "process oriented" for many of us, focusing on the experience as itself, placing emotional involvement outside of the boundaries of the process of servitude. It isn't for everyone, but for those of us for whom it is the right direction, the idea of mixing romance in with WIITWD is as unpalatable as it would be for someone who was romantically inclined to have a BDSM relationship (M/s, D/s, whatever) without romance and emotional ties.

agirl -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 8:47:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhostWhoWalks I've seen some profiles by slaves, looking for a strict and controlling Master and specifically not anything soft or romantic. I've also seen a few that at least implied they weren't looking for any affection whatsoever. What is the attraction to a slave, of being controlled by a harsh, strict Master who doesn't care about them? I'm specifically looking for feedback from those who desire/ have such an arrangement. Not looking for comments from subs/slaves who like to post stuff like, "I don't know why they want that, but here's what I think..." [:@] I didn't choose my Owner because I loved him ....but because he could do the job. He's not going to BOTHER to do that job if he doesn't care for me. ( He's not that altruistic). I see the same reasoning in the fact that my adoptive son chose me as a surrogate Mum. I simply do an effective job and care in a practical and pragmatic way. agirl

CreativeDominant -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 8:54:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly here's what i think....some might feel that wine and roses lessens his dominance in their eyes. Nicely said, holly. When I first started in D/s, I was going more for the romantic side than the D/s side. That worked to an extent in that it was better than the vanilla marriage I had come from but it did taint it...one of the submissives I was with would occasionally use the romantic love of our relationship to color the D/s portion in a negative manner; manipulation of me to a point where I would forego punishment. It took awhile to see what was going on and I got, for lack of a better term, tougher. Now, when I am dealing with a potential submissive partner, one of the first things they are told is that while I want the romantic side of the relationship, it is a separate thing from the D/s even while being intertwined with it. I tell them that the argument "if you loved me, you would not make me do this/punish me/introduce this new idea" is a negative intertwining of our relationship (romantic) with our dynamic(D/s) and I won't go there, anymore than I will use the "if you loved me, you would do this to please not only me as your partner but as your dominant" argument. One of the ways that this is expressed for me is in the sexual aspect of the relationship/dynamic. I make it clear that any time I want to have her, I will...she can enjoy it or not (though too many times of not being able to get into it will certainly result in serious discussion)...but I will have her. Does that mean I don't care? No. I do care about the submissives I have been with and don't want to be with someone I don't care about. But I also realize that I do not have to love them to care for them, nor do I have to love them to be in a D/s dynamic or even a romantic relationship with. A romantic relationship does not always require love to be present.

GhostWhoWalks -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 11:58:24 AM)
Thanks to all who have contributed thus far (and those who will in the future). I wasn't expecting to see this kind of diversity; I was expecting some commonalities to become apparent. However, it looks like this is not as simple as I first thought. I've learned some things. [:)] Worthwhile things that bear contemplation. Thanks again.

RavenMuse -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 12:31:25 PM)
Then you have missed the obvious commonality.... care, even if just in the sense of not breaking the toy... broken toys are no fun. I have a duty of care, My girl trusts that I take care not to harm her. Though there is a WORLD of difference between hurt and HARM.

slaveluci -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 12:43:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP The people I've heard talk about this have not had this relationship be their primary. They compartmentalized their lives. They didn't live with the uncaring master, just saw him on their off days. They got their love, caring, romance and friendship from other people in their lives. In some ways, the visit to the master was like a tennis match, a game they enjoyed that was relegated to their spare time. They missed it if for some reason they couldn't go, but they also could happily say "see you in two weeks, I'm going to Hawaii for my vacation". Very true. I've also seen it this way: It's not that it was a compartmentalized part of their life but they were in a "stage" of their life where they seemed sure that's all they needed/wanted. I can think of two ladies right off hand that have posted alot here who had the attitude that being something akin to "meat" and being treated harshly and without love, subject to whatever their dominant wanted was just what they needed. They didn't need or want "love" or "caring." They had pretty much everyone convinced of this, even themselves. Both of them eventually saw they did need/want love and caring and made a 180 degree turn from only wanting harshness, coldness and being held at arm's length. There really may be people who only want harshness and abuse. I've never personally encountered them, especially not here. Most of the ones who asserted they were that way eventually got to a point where they were not. So, my opinion goes right along with DesFip's in that - whether compartmentalized or not - for most people those feelings usually only last so long and then they decide they do need more. Just an observation.............luci

Andalusite -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 1:41:19 PM)
I'm not presently seeking this, but I have had a few casual playpartners in the past, though I wanted more of a S/M top/bottom interaction than D/s. Usually, if I didn't want a relationship, it was because I had recently broken up with someone, and wanted to take a time-out from relationships. I still wanted to care about the other person and have them care about me, in a friendly way. I found that it worked best to do so with someone I wasn't attracted to romantically, so it was easier with men who were outside my usual age range for dating, or M/F couples, or women. I didn't want harshness or abuse, I wanted to explore some aspects of BDSM I hadn't tried before, I liked getting cuddled during aftercare, I liked the sensuality without feeling pressured into doing more. I can't keep things that casual with someone I am romantically/sexually interested in, though.

pinkpolkadots -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 1:59:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhostWhoWalks I've seen some profiles by slaves, looking for a strict and controlling Master and specifically not anything soft or romantic. I've also seen a few that at least implied they weren't looking for any affection whatsoever. i have been one of "those". not always. i fell in love with a Master who was supposed to be "just" cool and controlling, and i think he fell in love with me, too. but i was kind of upset when it happened. sirsholly has it about right. i feel a little too "on top" when a guy is giddy for me. that said, i think it is largely part of some deep fantasy to have this cold, detatched Master - in reality people will develop a certain level of fondness or dislike or what have you of another. i don't think people stay impartial to people they deal with closely - emotional ties, good or bad, eventually take hold.

lateralist1 -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 4:08:43 PM)
I have met a lot of people into BDSM and they were all looking for something different. At least one was looking for someone who would simply physically 'abuse' him. I do think that most people want a caring relationship though. The problem is that they want to be cared for but they are not particularly interested in caring for their partner. Or that's my experience. I'm dominant and I want to be able to 'use' my slave but I also need the caring on both sides of the relationship. So far I haven't found it.

DesFIP -> RE: Control without Love? (4/18/2009 5:54:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci Very true. I've also seen it this way: It's not that it was a compartmentalized part of their life but they were in a "stage" of their life where they seemed sure that's all they needed/wanted. I can think of two ladies right off hand that have posted alot here who had the attitude that being something akin to "meat" and being treated harshly and without love, subject to whatever their dominant wanted was just what they needed. They didn't need or want "love" or "caring." They had pretty much everyone convinced of this, even themselves. Both of them eventually saw they did need/want love and caring and made a 180 degree turn from only wanting harshness, coldness and being held at arm's length. There really may be people who only want harshness and abuse. I've never personally encountered them, especially not here. Most of the ones who asserted they were that way eventually got to a point where they were not. So, my opinion goes right along with DesFip's in that - whether compartmentalized or not - for most people those feelings usually only last so long and then they decide they do need more. Just an observation.............luci I wasn't thinking of those but of masochist subs married to a nonsadistic, nondominant partner. The marriage was great but they need the occasional weekend with the harsh master to fulfill the need the spouse couldn't. It worked very well for this woman because the sadistic dominant was married to a nonmasochistic nonsubmissive woman. For both it was something they couldn't get at home, but allowed an itch to be scratched.

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