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Old Guard, New Guard - 4/18/2009 12:20:38 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		When did the Old Guard become old? what was it called before it Old Guard? and when in your opinion did the New Guard begin?
A have heard a lot of the Old Guard speak about more formality and protocol but what about the other side of of that... the Leather Brigade who were very informal and used SM with 'wild psychedelic sex'?



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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/18/2009 12:27:08 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		These are both just phrases generated by people in the late 1970s through the mid 1990s to discuss general trends in what they saw as a kinky community. There was never an entity called "The Old Guard" or "The New Guard".

You know what I am, I'm "The TammyJo Guard" and that's all I want to me...

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/18/2009 12:38:35 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Why Old Guard?

Source Material collection

Modern Application of the Old Guard Philosophy

Jay Wisemans Take on The Old Guard (Read them all they are pretty good)

Gayle Rubins Take on the Old Guard / New Guard (Good but I like the way Jay Writes better)

Guy Baldwinds Take on The Old Guard

I thought this was a good read however not directlky related to what Old Guard is.


As for what I think........ I don't put much thought into it.

I have however researched it enough times to know a lot of people use it to make themselves look better.

Steel

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/18/2009 5:56:51 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

the Leather Brigade who were very informal and used SM with 'wild psychedelic sex'?



Now those are the only ones I've ever known. Back in the 60s and 70s in the Fire Island gay communities. And frequently the sex was accompanied by ingestion of psychedelics.

So when people talk about 'Old Guard' to me, it bears no relationship to the leathermen I've known.

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/19/2009 12:21:16 AM   
crazyredhead1957


Posts: 189
Joined: 12/10/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks, Steel, for all the info.  It was interesting.  ~smiles~

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/19/2009 1:33:24 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
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quote:

When did the Old Guard become old


The Old Guard isn't a group of people, it is a style of domination.

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/19/2009 5:59:40 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

the Leather Brigade who were very informal and used SM with 'wild psychedelic sex'?



Now those are the only ones I've ever known. Back in the 60s and 70s in the Fire Island gay communities. And frequently the sex was accompanied by ingestion of psychedelics.

So when people talk about 'Old Guard' to me, it bears no relationship to the leathermen I've known.


slight hijack.....in my younger days sex while trippin was attempted a few times, but we couldnt quit giggling at the colors and melting parts-lol

i dont know how they did it trippin...more power to them

edit-i cant type for shit

< Message edited by JstAnotherSub -- 4/19/2009 6:00:50 AM >

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/19/2009 6:01:48 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		No idea myself, when the punch got laced with acid someone always told me it was time to run along.

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/19/2009 6:53:59 AM   
MissJanice2


Posts: 178
Joined: 3/4/2009
Status: offline 		Old Guard, new Guard.  What does it matter?  It comes down to what is best for the individuals involved.   They train you their way, and their is no right or wrong way to do things in this lifestyle.
It is kind of like convervative verses liberal in my opinion.
 
Best Wishes,
 
MJ

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/19/2009 9:22:57 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		old guard, modified guard, new guard. all are pretty much exclusive to the gay leather family community. i never knew of any drug parties and wild pissadelic sex. it was more about protocol, respect earned and given, pomp, circumstance, and formalities straight people only dream about. those days are gone they say

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/19/2009 11:50:09 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Why Old Guard?

Source Material collection

Modern Application of the Old Guard Philosophy

Jay Wisemans Take on The Old Guard (Read them all they are pretty good)

Gayle Rubins Take on the Old Guard / New Guard (Good but I like the way Jay Writes better)

Guy Baldwinds Take on The Old Guard

I thought this was a good read however not directlky related to what Old Guard is.


As for what I think........ I don't put much thought into it.

I have however researched it enough times to know a lot of people use it to make themselves look better.

Steel


Thanks very much for these links Steel. I am ploughing through some very good reads.
Its frightening to think that not that long ago 'our people' had to be as underground as this.
Ill keep reading... thanks once again.

Maria


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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/19/2009 11:58:43 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissJanice2

Old Guard, new Guard.  What does it matter?  It comes down to what is best for the individuals involved.   They train you their way, and their is no right or wrong way to do things in this lifestyle.
It is kind of like convervative verses liberal in my opinion.
 
Best Wishes,
 
MJ



Of course it doesn't matter but its interesting because its very much a part of our history and how we became more liberated within this lifestyle.
Back then they had no choice but to form small sub groups of 'secret societies' and have strict protocol amongst those groups for fear of being uncovered and lynched.
Back in the 40s 50s and even the 60s you were considered seriously mentally ill if you played around with Sm and if it wasn't for these group's (which back then as far as I have read, didn't call themselves 'Old Guard') remaining close knit, sharing knowledge and some even speaking out on our behalf, then we possibly wouldn't be where we are today.
Its just about understanding the history of consensual Sm and its interesting to some.

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/20/2009 4:24:48 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Not playing with s & m so much as being open homosexuals. Until 1969 in NYC it was still illegal to be gay and cops needing to make quotas raided gay bars regularly. I think it was a year or two later in San Francisco.
Remember, the Old Guard, the leathermen were gay and gay was against the law.

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/20/2009 11:33:17 AM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline 		The gay liberation movement, and Stonewall specifically, were probably the beginning of the end of the Old Guard. Certainly as a dominant force within BDSM.

When a new generation had chosen a path of confrontation and fighting for their rights, those that were sticking to the old tactics of hiding were always going to be marginalised by that.

New tactics and new people displace the old.  So it always has been and so it always will be.


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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/20/2009 7:04:32 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Not just the difference in how to proceed but the generation gap. By 69 and Stonewall, the original WWII leathermen were 40 to 50 years old. The ones who protested Stonewall and changed the laws were young, with unimportant jobs waiting tables, they had nothing to lose, like most 20 year olds. The 50 year olds had well paying jobs, expensive homes etc. And that also makes the difference.

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RE: Old Guard, New Guard - 4/20/2009 7:07:38 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		what about right gaurd

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