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Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/1/2006 9:55:51 AM

Basho

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There is a longstanding debate among various schools of Zen Buddhism concerning enlightenment as a gradual process or a sudden insight. I believe that the gradual process of cultivated discipline provides the necessary ground for punctuated moments of transformation. In a similar manner, I'm curious to hear from submissives/slaves regarding their personal experiences. To be more precise, I am interested in the process through which one comes to fully identify as a submissive/slaves, and thereby awaken new powers of submission. Would people be willing to share any of their "breakthrough" experiences (assuming they exist), which they felt were substantially, if not radically, transforming/liberating? Sorry my post is so wordy, but I strive to be as clear as possible.

cheers,
Basho

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/1/2006 10:00:05 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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For me I resisted the label of slave because of the enormous responsibility that went with it. I did not feel I was ready for such responsibility, for such absolute surrender. ANd then I realized I'm just not the type of person who can do things halfway- if I am to be owned, it needs to be without if's and buts. While everyone has limits, I would need a master who simply had me accept his limits as law.

This freed me to explore what felt right to myself- even if I wasn't ready for that lifetime commitment yet, at least I was no longer limiting myself to things that I knew would not fulfill me.

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/1/2006 10:16:03 AM

blackpearl81

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From: Home of the Yankees
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Hmm...

My "breakthrough" was actually quite sudden..

About 6 years ago I was talking with someone with far more exp. in the lifestyle than I. She became somewhat of a mentor, although we slowly grew out of contact. What made me want to explore this side of myself, was when She offered to share a former submissives journal, mainly to see if it was something i was truely wishing to explore.

Well..I was completely unprepared for what happened over the course of reading it. At several points during my reading (it took a fairly long time to complete it as it was about 130 pages, over the span of a year or so) At several points, i found my self openly crying, mainly because the things i were reading about, were things i felt i needed.. not only to grow as a person, but also because I didnt have that type of love shown to me as i grew up (due to losing my mother at an early age)

Since that reading, I've tried to gather as much information as possible about the lifestyle as a whole, as well as a *LOT* of self exploring..

In retrospect, I would have to say it was sudden insight...

Hope this helps :)

*BP*

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/1/2006 10:32:23 AM

veronicaofML

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Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
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enlightenment/zen?
my gawd

okay fine
here goes
dont shoot til ya see the whites of my eyes
===========

bear with me here, k?

enlightenment? not really. this is in no way, an enlightened part of me. never was/ never gonna be.
this is merely something i stumbled across, by accident.
oh lawdy
told this story so much.
i was lookin for 'a' gal, that i could find and have one on one, to please, in my life...most every normal red blooded american male likes to have a woman's touch in his life..
sooooooooooooo
after more n more...bad things..
a bud said hey yo..try the internet
there are lots of broads on there love to have a guy spoil em rotten.
k
so i did
thats about it, k?

but enlightenment? zen?
naw
i had that course in high school...
"muhammed went to the wall, and came away enlightened"
oh bite me!
i HATE talkin to a wall. it's why i divorced 3 of em.
about as worthless to me as a 2 legged dog on a duck hunt

man's gotta have someone beside him to help out his life, not by gawd make it worse

my story and i'm stickin to it
i demand a lawyer before questioning and i want it in triplicate

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/1/2006 10:33:16 AM

Tapestry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Basho

There is a longstanding debate among various schools of Zen Buddhism concerning enlightenment as a gradual process or a sudden insight. I believe that the gradual process of cultivated discipline provides the necessary ground for punctuated moments of transformation. In a similar manner, I'm curious to hear from submissives/slaves regarding their personal experiences. To be more precise, I am interested in the process through which one comes to fully identify as a submissive/slaves, and thereby awaken new powers of submission. Would people be willing to share any of their "breakthrough" experiences (assuming they exist), which they felt were substantially, if not radically, transforming/liberating? Sorry my post is so wordy, but I strive to be as clear as possible.

cheers,
Basho

OK, well I'm not entirely clear if you're asking when I realized I was submissive, or when I realized I was a slave. So I'll answer both. Someone began to explain and talk with me about BDSM in general, to see if I had any interest in it. And at first I was very opposed, just thinking it was too extreme for me. But as I read the links that were given to me, my heart began to pound, and my stomach started doing flip flops, and I knew I had to find out more. I purchased "The Loving Dominant" by John Warren, PhD and started reading. The things he wrote about submissives, and then the chapter Libby wrote both felt like they had written it all about me. I wondered how they knew all that! It just felt like I was suddenly whole, that pieces of me which had been missing were now found, and I was complete. It was such a feeling of peace, of coming home. And it explained so clearly many of the events in my past, things I had done, and things I had allowed others to do to me.
From there, it didn't take very long to realize that my desire to please was so great that I was more than just submissive. I had the heart of a slave, and longed for nothing more than pleasing and serving my Master. It's so easy to do, since His focus is on taking care of me, pleasing me, and helping me to be all that i can be. While i, in turn, want only to care for Him, serve, assist, or otherwise do His bidding. I don't have to worry about having my own needs met since Master sees to that. There is such trust and devotion and love between us that serving Him is a privilege and a blessing.
So, for me, becoming submissive was a sudden insight, while becoming slave was a more gradual process. I hope this answers your question.

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/1/2006 2:44:59 PM

Lordandmaster

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I really don't think it's one or the other. Some insights have come to me in a flash. Others have been the result of long-term reflection. I know that the gradualist-vs.-subitist controversy in Zen has spawned a lot of dazzling poetry, but I've never understood why people felt committed to one or the other view.

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/1/2006 9:12:15 PM

classykindasassy

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I would say my first brush with domination was a quantum leap into a world, from which I now could never imagine leaving, and one I had no idea I identified with or could be passionate about.

I am a veteran meditator and an expert in transformational work. While Zen is not my modality, I am Buddhist at heart.

I do agree with your assertion that consistent practice is the groundwork for progress over time, and grooms one for the eventuality of quantum leaps or "satori". However, I think you may agree that satori is an unpredictable phenomenon in classical practice.

Some of the work I do teaches people how to create something like satori virtually on demand, once one masters the tools and is willing to look with no fear for the ego's exposure and no concern for discomfort in seeing the truth of what's so.

Re the world of BDSM...I find that I map its principles onto all of life and allow the philosophy of submission to work on me. As a dominant personality in my public life and a sub in my personal life, I find many opportunities to learn lessons about submitting rather than resisting. I feel that resistance to what's so is the number one thing that causes us suffering - and even more acutely my resistance as a sub causes me more pain and suffering than is necessary. There is a poem on my profile, in the journal, that points to my "satori about suffering and submission.

< Message edited by classykindasassy -- 2/1/2006 9:13:31 PM >

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/2/2006 5:13:45 PM

tendergirl

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I had sudden insight. I always knew I was different and that I wanted a more intense relationship in life than I could find conventionally, but had no clue what was wrong with me.

One day, a former fiancee firmly stated that I would NOT do something. omg, I nearly collapsed with desire. Somehow, from his dominant attitude, I started exploring on the net.

I went from vanilla engaged to full time subbie owned in two weeks. I have been real time D/s with my Dom for 3 months now and we move in together full time in a few weeks. We also inadvertantly fell in love with one another vanilla lol.

We match completely and for the first time in my life, I am alive and free after 30 years of being a misfit in life.

Perhaps finding out that I am a submissive came at just the right time in my life. I only ever wanted one Dom. The experiences are just too personal for me to share with alot of folk (to each his own okay).

I have been lucky.

Again, my insight was sudden, the submission, I was born with.

love from tendergirl

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/2/2006 7:32:44 PM

KittenWithaTwist

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My enlightenment is gradual and in constant flux. I have not yet settled on one way to be, or one type of submission that I wish to express.

I do not believe in "sudden insight".

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RE: Gradual vs. Sudden Insight? - 2/2/2006 8:19:44 PM

fastlane

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Listen to the old school song...by Frank Sinatra..."Witchcraft"....That's the spell that is put on all of us, when we fall!

Peace, Kevin

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