RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:13:29 PM)

So many Mistresses start out their profiles by calling men "piggy," or "scum," or "loser" (although many of them spell it "looser").  Then we are told how we don't deserve to be anywhere near Her Magnificent Self."  This is the tone set by many Mistresses right at the out set.

I've written to some of them and one or two have turned out to be sweeties.  They just think they should come across as 'severe' for various reasons.  Try "Didn't I teach you at school once?" - that's helped separate the women from the girls for me.[;)]




LadyHibiscus -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:15:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SnowRanger

I am reliably informed that I need an FB myself


Dude!  I am a mere five hour drive away!  [8D]




SnowRanger -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:26:02 PM)

I have to work Saturday and probably Sunday.  We should at least meet for coffee some time soon.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:28:22 PM)

Monday I am stuck waiting for the sprinkler guys... 




Venatrix -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:32:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Monday I am stuck waiting for the sprinkler guys... 


I didn't know you were into water sports.




LadyPact -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:32:46 PM)

[sm=rofl.gif]




LadyHibiscus -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:34:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Monday I am stuck waiting for the sprinkler guys... 


I didn't know you were into water sports.


[sm=rofl.gif]




Lockit -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:38:00 PM)

Venatrix doesn't miss a beat! [sm=applause.gif]




SnowRanger -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 2:55:47 PM)

On the other hand, that is a curuiosity of mine!




undergroundsea -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/24/2009 9:35:44 PM)

If by friend we mean some kind of personal rapport or connection versus platonic friendship, I think the rapport and a D/s connection can occur simultaneously. Each might continue to grow with time in an intertwined manner, one might grow and the other not, or both might subside after the initial introduction. How I feel is defined by how the respective components of dominance and rapport superimpose.

I see the rapport to be grey versus black or white. The rapport for play at a party is different from rapport for a broader ongoing relationship. Similarly, the level of dominance or submission expressed also falls on a spectrum; one might not be at the kneel bitch end but still engage in some level of D/s, even if it is just D/s flirting.

For me, if there is no D/s energy or D/s-based attraction from the start, it could create a barrier that must be overcome in order to establish this energy later in time. Whether this barrier exists depends on the type of attraction and chemistry I feel. And if the barrier does come to be then the domme plays a role in whether or not this barrier is overcome. It is hard to simply will submission if no such feeling is felt, and only non-sexual and non-D/s friendship is felt.

I have played with women whom I had met the same night. What began as conversation or flirting led to play. That each of us engaged in play with introductory rapport and an immediate D/s component suggests that to begin with D/s at the outset is not strictly divided across the sexes. I expect statistically men are more likely to engage in D/s without first establishing deeper rapport. And I expect the reason for this statistical difference comes from biological and societal factors.

Biologically, differences in female and male psychologies might tilt the statistics in the direction described due to differences in what draws each to sexuality related activity (D/s). For societal factors, women may be more hesitant to rush into such activity for sake of societal propriety, and for being cautious against being used for sexual gratification.

I am unsure how much men see sex as a means to bond. I don't see it as a deliberate means to bond. That is, I don't see sex to be a step I take in order to achieve greater bonding. I see it as a fun and personal activity. When I engage in it, I do so for the fun it carries, not with the thought that I am doing so to achieve greater bonding. Greater bonding might occur after having sexual activity, however, as it might in general for sharing a fun and personal activity that goes well.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Sea




chezzy71 -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/25/2009 2:45:42 AM)

without reading any other posts..i saw the letters FB next to Snow Rangers post and given my football mentality at times,i wondered aloud why he would need a fullback???




SnowRanger -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/25/2009 7:11:37 PM)

Hmm...  I never thought of it that way.  I know of a women's football team up in Columbus.  Most of Ohio's ProDommes are from Columbus.  I wonder if there's a connection.  Hmm.... 

Check out some ot the posts prior to mine.

Still, it is a kink that I could acquire.




LAgirlsub -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/26/2009 12:43:22 AM)

Lockit, I don’t know if my experience (which so far is mostly this site/forum) will offer much…but as a sub woman my feelings on this…

Maybe I should mention in general my emails that sort of demonstrate what you suggest. For some reason, I very clearly state I’m gay – I very much love the ladies – yet I still get male emails that all go to bulk now unread. But before I set that option, I opened them…

So if those emails are an indication of how (‘on average’) men approach women here, the majority have no interest in knowing anything about me and it’s sex/domination (neither of which they’d ever get with me anyway – this behavior really baffles me).

Now the women, if we weighed the scales would be nearly exactly opposite the men. The women do want to get to know a little more about you; however it isn’t honestly as I’d approach a woman I haven’t met or even talked to before. There is a portion of the women that have emailed me that have behaved in ways I’d never expect from a woman – from assumptions of what I want sexually (again without even having talked to me) to more assumptions that I’d want to immediately submit to any dominant that pays attention to me. Honestly, it has surprised me.

Also, domme, switch and sub women approach me. I don’t mind at all, it’s just also interesting that I think it demonstrates the evolving feelings one might have in bdsm at any given time.

Oh, I do want to offer my opinion on questioning your dominance, Lockit. You questioned if you are dominant or not. Obviously I haven’t met you – which if there is something about me that’s true according to my natal chart I read emotions – I would likely pick up from you in short order if you felt dominant. It might be I bring this out in others, I don’t know, but I’m definitely picking this up clearly from women these days (smile).

But here’s the thing…even if I could imagine switching for a partner or in a situation or whatever, I am not dominant. I have no desire to dominate someone. Actually what I’ve always wanted and still do is more internal; I want to have better control over how I react to my emotions and have more control over me – myself – not someone else. That’s my distinction. So I would say to you, if you have this feeling of enjoying/wanting to dominant someone else, then you are from my POV a dominant. Even if someone doesn’t lead his or her life that way, it’s there. I just thought I’d mention that to you, since you seem to be questioning how you feel/who you are.

Ironically, in how we stereotype femininity, in many ways I fit that – which might be why I get too much male attention at times. I always thought it was because I didn’t care, that I’m not sexually interested so they found that a challenge. But maybe it’s this part of me, that I’m now noticing more domme women (at least that feel dominant) pay attention to me. Well, at least I hope that’s what’s happening.

What is somewhat funny to me in realizing that here I am on a bdsm site after a brief affair with a dominant young woman is that I fought against this even though again I fit the gender role typical in society. As women, we’re ‘expected’ to be submissive (I’m generalizing) but in my small world, that’s been harder for me to accept. I have very strong women in my family, I’m know in my own way I’m a strong broad and very independent so I fought this desire thinking it was ‘weak.’ Seems silly when I stare directly at those emotions but it’s how I felt. I can imagine how my fellow male subs might really struggle with these feelings at some point.

Sorry I drifted from your question…which was what do I expect? (since I can’t say yet what I’ve experienced)…I have powerful, competing drives at this moment and honestly it’s difficult. It’s been very rare in my life that I’ve just had casual sex (a few times) yet I feel I so much I need/want to learn at this moment in time, that I know intellectually that I should not be exclusive with any one woman. And at the same time, I’m really lousy at this. I don’t really know how not to care for people, particularly a woman I’m sexual with…and then throw in some bdsm and I don’t know if it’s possible to be open in this way with a woman I didn’t have some real connection with. Of my conflicting feelings, I almost wish I didn’t discover this part of myself. If I found a way to make my feelings more complicated, I just did.

I do see, again from the little I know, bdsm as connected to my sexuality. I’m not interested in bdsm without sex as much as I know today.

So my expectation is to just be as I am – open and honest and hope for the best. My instincts rarely ever fail me, so that’s how I’ll head into this. I expect to have a darn cup of coffee somewhere with a potential domme, get out of my bdsm mind and into real life. I value my friends greatly so I would call my interactions with potential dommes also a potential friendship as well as a potential play partner. If I had better terms, I’d use them but there’s little doubt that at least for my first few experiences that I could truly submit to someone I didn’t like in a personal way more then just she’s, well, hot physically.

Hope my lack of real experience wasn’t pointless in answering your questions. I appreciate you asking it. I do feel at times I’m maneuvering through landmines to get where I know I need to go.

And I need to mention the passing of Bea Arthur – her role(s) were often the quintessential dominant woman (esp. battling Archie Bunker).




Politesub53 -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/26/2009 2:24:33 AM)

LAgirlsub, Well done on your post. It is often difficult to throw so much out there, without worrying about being judged. As for the statement below, no ones opinion should be invalid based on lack of experience.

quote:

Hope my lack of real experience wasn’t pointless in answering your questions. I appreciate you asking it. I do feel at times I’m maneuvering through landmines to get where I know I need to go.


You touched on a few points that I, and others, have been saying on recent threads. The difficulty in accepting ourselves for what we are, and not what society feel is "The norm " I stated elsewhere how hard it is for a submissive male, at least it was for me, to go against the flow of what is expected. The fact you are posting here shows you have started asking questions of yourself, which is a good place to start. Accepting our own feelings is the key to getting to know who we really are.

As for relationships, I approach them as I would a vanilla relationship. Sure I could have fun with any Dominant woman, and really enjoy it, just as I could vanilla wise. If we are looking for long term, why would our search differ from a normal relationship, just because we have a kink ?

Good luck to you. [;)]




Lockit -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/26/2009 8:33:39 AM)

Thank you LAgirlsub!

I don't question my dominance.  I was saying that some men do because I don't come in dominant in all my way's, right off the bat, basically telling them to kneel bitch and standing there ready to serve them the whip and service every little kink they have in their time frame.  (Like right this moment and with whoever decides they want it!)

Thank you for sharing so much about yourself! Great post!




littlesarbonn -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/26/2009 9:27:16 AM)

For me, I'm much more comfortable being led through the beginnings of a relationship into whatever it becomes. Because of this, I rarely make inquiries about things like sex; I'm just not comfortable bringing such things up because I'd rather things take place at her convenience and desire rather than at my urging. Where the problem comes (and that's just for me) is that I end up in a LOT of friendships with women that never go any further than that. Women are really comfortable around me, and as a result, I end up being best buddies to a number of different women. And it gets frustrating actually because way too often it happens before I realize it, and when I start to inquire about whether things can ever become more intense, I find myself on the short end of that stick. As a result, I find myself less desirous of actually doing submissive things with someone who has decided she just wants me as a friend (in the old days I had no problem being submissive in nature to pretty much everyone, but then I realized I was being taken advantage of, so I put a stop to it), and what happens is that the friendship slowly fades. A few remain very, very close friends, on an almost intimate level (intimate, to me, does not mean sex), but those numbers remain very small because those are the kinds of friends I will actually do pretty much anything for.

I often find myself in a quandary because I don't have the answer that's best for anyone, including for me. Nowadays, I mainly seek out someone who intends to be dominant in our relationship because I've had too many circumstances of being the "good friend", and that's the kind of position that requires the same amount of energy as an intimate relationship, without any of the benefits.




Lockit -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/26/2009 10:03:24 AM)

Many have brought up some great things about friendship and their own relationship requirements on this thread.  We are surely a mix of different flavor's if you will.

I think there are different types of friends, but one of my points was basically seeing so many men that want the kink and sex before anything else and seemingly don't see the dominant as a person, but more a way to get what they seek.  It seems they want the sex or kink and are thinking if something then becomes of that, then okay, but they were first seeking the kink and sex.  I realize I am seeing more of this online (here) than I do in person, especially now days, but even in person men seemed to be wanting to get off and they didn't care if they knew the woman or not.  I don't mean all men.. but a large portion it seems.

sarbonn, I can totally understand what you are saying from my own experinces.  I had some men that I might have been interested in something more but they ended only as friends because of timing in each of our lives and things outside of us.  It was more than just two people that could or couldn't see more.  Or in the long run whatever attraction was there lost something and maybe in part it was simply not a good fit.

My intentions are to be dominant in any type of relationship I have that is sexual or has the potential to be sexual.  The thing is, many are not wanting the relationship part and just want the sexual.  But I want the person to be my friend as well as my lover.  If I see potential in someone because of the way they present themselves, I will move into dominant mode, just maybe not as fast and part of that is because I want someone who will not only be there for the fun stuff, but for the not so fun stuff and for more than playtime.

When I see someone I am interested in... I will feel more dominant with them than I do someone who can only be a friend and I know that pretty quickly.  I will be honest with people and tell them where my interest are with them.  From day one and as it might evolve.  Then again, I have had men who were friends first, that turned into more than I could see happening, again because of life circumstances and things changing and being able to see them as more as things changed.  I think no matter how things turn out, the respect and desire to know the whole person was the key factor.  Something that is missing from what many men seem to want right off. 

I see a man willing to be my friend as someone who stands a better chance of caring about me as a person rather than someone who is attracted to only what I can do for them.  For a man who saw me and not just a woman, body or dominant... who fit my life... which isn't anyone's fault if they don't fit... I would give so very much.  I am not just a dominant and I wasn't placed in this life to provide for the wants of insincere men.




LAgirlsub -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/27/2009 12:19:02 AM)

Lockit, I'm glad it's not that you were questioning your own dominance because of others...that's what I thought you meant.

So this really happens? That men expect you to be yielding a whip the moment you meet them? I can't imagine I'd ever want that to 'just happen' without having had some good, fairly indepth discussions with a woman much earlier.

Just a thought...do men trust differently? Because they have different phyiscal strength, do they not think about opening themselves up - physically as well as emotionally - the way I do as a woman? Even with another woman, I don't think I could ever for example be in public setting (if I were so inclined) and let a sexy woman touch me if I didn't have some kind of earlier contact with her.

Is this just a difference between the sexes and well, getting our kink on?




LAgirlsub -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/27/2009 12:49:51 AM)

Thanks Politesub53 (I like your nic). As I wrote my post, I started to think about how I've had - in some ways even as a gay woman - the benefits of what is expected of my gender...I'm no LA glam woman yet I am feminine, very much a woman in those traditional ways and a mix of independence/submission which isn't frowned apon by cultural norms; however males feeling as I do would have the opposite expectations placed on them. If I had trouble accepting (and I'm still working on it) that I feel submissive to a strong woman - oh aren't they just so sexy - that men would feel this pressure much more so.

It's an interesting and exciting road less traveled by some. I really can't wait to have a real experience (beyond my very creativity imagination).




sambamanslilgirl -> RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? (4/27/2009 5:34:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I find that many who contact me rush to the Mistress and ‘dominate me’ nearly from day one and they won’t see you as a dominant unless you are quickly dominating them.  They don’t want a friend or buddy in the getting to know you process, but a dominant full on, cracking that whip from moment one.  It seems like dominant first, friend second.


i get that a lot from male submissives - dominant and lover but never friends. many love skipping the "getting to know you" part and jump right into the following questions: what's my bra size, what's my favorite sexual position to what am i looking for in a male submissive (now if they have read my profile which most don't they would know i'm not looking). just last week one in my area sent a chat request and the first line read - wanna play and dominate me? i'm free all day with all the trappings of being a very good boy toy. UGH!

in order for me to play, i need to know and trust the other person first. i can go into the full Domme-mode on someone's ass however i save that for the idiots on the yahoo group i mod.




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