RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (Full Version)

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lusciouslips19 -> RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (4/27/2009 6:50:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I am sorry if the Op doesnt really know anything about BDSM if they are blaming these problems on it. These problems would exist between the couple even if vanilla. I have seen countless times where someone of my faith-jewish and an observant jew is involved with someone ofa differetn faith. The only way it will work is if the other converts to their religion. Many are willing to convert. But if they are not then there is an impasse. I also grew up with a girl who was very extremely orthodox. Her father was not jewish. Her mother became more religious and raised her kids this way. The father became a virtual outsider in his own home. Now I am not saying thst this happens with all. Most people arent that religious anyway. But when they are, the impasse is great and it cant not be overcome when both feels so strongly about their faith and future family upbringing.


OK I said it about 15 times I will say it again. BDSM did not cause the problem. BDSM is not to blame. However, it is possible for the BDSM dynamic to exacerbate the issue. Others have posted here who said that they too fell into it. Others clearly got what was being said even if they did not fall into it.

Some here are so touchy that they are not reading what was said. I am not bashing on BDSM. I like BDSM. I am on this site for crying out loud. I am saying that not everyone manages to keep proper boundaries between BDSM and what I would consider the nuts and bolts of relationship issues. This is a true statement. We all know people who have done this. Why are some people here being so willfully blind to what has actually been said.

For people in this lifestyle to have such remarkably thin skins that they can not even admit something obvious that sometimes happens, that I am certain that they have seen in one context or another is astonishing.

I don't think alcohol is evil. I don't deny that not everyone uses it healthily either.

Because you didnt clarify it. Now you did and I understand now what you were trying but did not effectively say.  Perhaps it was some type of a sub frenzy that made her so eager to submit?  Either way, she did not go about things with proper boundaries and her need for submission superceded her desire to learn about the person first as discussions about hard limits and core beliefs should have taken place.




SailingBum -> RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (4/27/2009 8:06:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

I dont get it!  Ppl agree to disagree all the time whether its about religion or whos washing dishes tonight.  It doesn't have a thing to do with The EVIL BDSM vs Vanilla.  Surely the OP is not naive enuff to think religion can't truely be a deal killer.  Back in the 40's oh about 6 million catholics were killed and a few jews.

BadOne



I'll assume that you were miss typing your history and that you know better. You might want to edit it. Nowhere did I say anything about EVIL BDSM. You might want to read the post again and think about what is actually being said.



Your post confused me still not sure what your point/ rant is.  I'll take full credit for the evil remark.  It was to highlight my confusion about what vanilla and bdsm have to do with anything in your post....  lets assume they have been fucking for a couple of months.

So sunday off she goes to the triple rock baptist church and he goes off to fundamental freak show held twice daily.  so they wanna get married and it's just now coming up that this is a issue????  I suspect a 5 year old could have seen this train wreck coming

BadOne






MarcEsadrian -> RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (4/27/2009 8:14:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
I have a friend who is a submissive. She has a Dominant who she is very attached to. He has been speaking of getting married.

The catch is that he is of a certain culture and faith and very proud of it, while she is of another culture and faith and very proud of it. He is putting pressure on her to convert. Even in the vanilla world, this would be a huge issue. Everyone wants their partner to be "perfect" for them. In BDSM though, the Dominant is used to getting his way. The submissive is used to surrendering to it.

The trap is even more easily walked into now.


The "trap" is easy to avoid, if one takes the time to use some common sense. If my thing is for the cross and my potential Master / Mistress has a thing for the crescent, it doesn't take much imagination or foresight to see an inevitable clash between belief systems and how they will lean under a household in which one side of the relationship is the established authority. The only trap is our lack of forethought, intellectual honesty and common sense—especially in light of a possible arrangement where there is a Keeper and slave / servant. The true path to consent is reflecting deeply with eyes open upon the precipice you stand before making that leap.




GotSteel -> RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (4/27/2009 8:41:58 PM)

Which religions are we talking about? I get that your probably pondering the human relationship part of the equation here and how the D/S dynamic affects things and maybe the particular religions don't make a difference but when it comes to religions the details might really matter. We can all stand on our soap boxes and give advice but without even the most basic information about these people how useful can our advice really be?




NuevaVida -> RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (4/27/2009 8:57:07 PM)

I'll agree with the others who have said this should have been discussed long ago.  And I get that the OP's friend believes that because she is submissive she can not voice her concerns to her dominant.  But unless he has specifically told her she is not allowed to voice concerns, this is a trap of her own making.  She is creating bdsm rules for herself that do not exist.  As has been said - a fantasy in her mind.  Some people use bdsm/ Ds as a way to not hold themselves accountable for their own behaviors.  Seems to me she is doing that, hence the trap she feels she is in.

I disagree with the OP about this world of things within bdsm and this world of things outside bdsm (except I would be speaking of D/s and not bdsm).  It is my belief that submission within a relationship is all encompassing, unless of course all parties have agree to how they will parcel things out - - beforehand.

Lastly, if the beliefs and practices of the head of this submissive's household make her ill, he's the last person she should be marrying.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (4/27/2009 9:53:07 PM)

You leave a lot of information out.  How long have they been together?  It seems most posting here think this has been a significantly long relationship, but we don't know.  As another pointed out, the particular religions in question can make a big difference in whether this can be worked out.  I don't mean to minimize anyone's religion or the work that it takes for people practicing two different faiths to make a relationship work.  Obviously, the Christian/Jew combination is likely the most common.  While there are some very core things about each that the other completely disagrees with, it seems to have been easier to mesh together.  On the other hand, if we are talking about a Christian/Satanist coupling, that isn't ever going to work.  God/Athiest also (although I don't believe there is a formal conversion to atheism).  The point is which religions matters.

As for why this was never discussed before, that is where the whole length of time comes in.  First of all, from the posts it would seem that most of you get into deep religious discussions even before the first date!  I think it is much more common in the world (what ever side of the fence your proclivities lie on) for us to meet someone first and see if we like them as a person.  The OP doesn't mention how much each was actively practicing their faith all this time either.  Many people may not actively practice their faith (leading their partner to not really think of it as an issue) but when the subject of marriage and children comes up, it is made clear that faith has more importance than we would have thought.  I'm drawing a conclusion, but it seems that may have been the case here.  It isn't following lust, or being blind, and it isn't a radical surprise.  I don't follow organized religion, but I am Christian and realized quite a few years ago that I could never become involved with someone I had been talking to because I found out he was an atheist.  We didn't have this big discussion on religion, and I honestly don't remember how it came about that he mentioned it, I just remember my realization when he did of how I felt.

As for whether or not BDSM complicates things?  Really people, how many posts are on this board from people saying "master says so, so it is so"?  This board is filled with posts from s and D types saying that what the D says goes and yet all of a sudden, that isn't the case?  How hypocritical.  Perhaps what the OP has to do is think about it in a different way.  She should ask herself, if he ordered her to commit a crime, would she obey?  Would she hesitate about following the directive?  Question him?  It is true that this is a relationship issue not a lifestyle one, but you can't have a situation where you tell someone that they must obey all orders and then say it is ok to disobey an order to convert to a different faith because they don't believe it.  The difficulty the OP's friend is having isn't, in my opinion, a lifestyle one at all.  But neither is it a vanilla one either.  Regardless of the how, why, when, she is in love with this man.  Her dilemma is getting the strength to walk away because she knows deep down that she must, but when we are in love, we always hope there can be another way.  He has already said his expectations are that she convert.  I doubt and it appears she knows that he can't be swayed.  Her dilemma is how long can she avoid heartbreak.




Roselaure -> RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (4/28/2009 7:17:23 PM)

For me, the most important factor in any successful relationship is shared values.  That we can agree on the big stuff and respect each other's differences on the small stuff.  For both of these people it seems that their religion is one of the big items and that said religions are not similar enough that a conversion would be possible.  If he truly believes that her faith is of god, and the idea of raising children in his faith makes her physically ill, then it does not sound like there's much room for compromise.  I'd like to say that love conquers all but it doesn't always.




DesFIP -> RE: Where BDSM can be a trap (4/29/2009 3:59:32 AM)

Putting aside the religious problem, the bigger problem they have is that this is an unhealthy relationship from the get-go. She's been taught not to ever mention a problem, only his needs matter, and she's supposed to be happy by making him happy even when her needs aren't fulfilled.

I'm surprised this didn't blow up in their faces earlier. With this basis for the relationship, what does she think he'll do if she develops a chronic illness. He'll walk and find a 'twue slave'.




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