RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates

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slvemike4u -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/28/2009 7:47:44 PM)
Hard time in a federal penitentiary is hardly coffee and donuts servant...no one is advocating coddling these pirates...on the other hand your shoot on sight mentality is not helpful when one is trying to export and extol our way of life.Not to east to trumpet a society based on the "rule of law" when you decide to disregard it at every opportunity.

servantforuse -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/28/2009 8:00:19 PM)
There is no law in Somalia.

slvemike4u -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/28/2009 8:05:36 PM)
Pirates,much like the one recently captured(you know the one you keep bemoaning we didn't shoot) might have to settle for being tried in the courts of the offended/arresting country....works for me.Citing a lack of Somali courts as justification for out and out executions is weak and once again contrary behavior for a country that states it beleives in the rule of law.

servantforuse -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/28/2009 8:18:51 PM)
When the Navy seals killed the terrorists, that wasn't and execution, it was self defence for an innocent hostage.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/28/2009 8:23:21 PM)
It is the difference between being a country of ideals that we hold high, and ends justify the means. By allowing due process you insure that who you are punishing is actually guilty. If you have no due process, then there is no point in being a society of laws. Your example of the Libyan strike has no relevance, as we are not dealing with the same kind of person. If you advocate no due process for some moral reason of yours, then all those Americans that have been beheaded are justified by the moral reason of those that did that. Do you not see the hypocricy you are showing, and that to do as other do only validates their actions? quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse The Somalia pirates don't really seem to care who they kidnap and terrorize. I don't see them playing by any set of rules. Why should any one else who is trying to put an end to this play by rules. Remember when Libya was giving the United States all kinds of problems? Reagan ended it in one night when a couple of fighter jets bombed his house. We didn't hear from him in over 20 years.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/28/2009 9:02:10 PM)
Lamsbitch and I were talking about this just today. Arresting them and trying them in court like the petty criminals they are is exactly the right approach. No pirate wants to spend the rest of his days in prison till he croaks while straining on the shitcan. They want to go out in a blaze of glory. Shooting them is exactly what they want us to do. "We are hate American!" quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse We should be shooting them, not arresting them if we and other countries were serious about ending all of this..

slvemike4u -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/28/2009 9:08:42 PM)
Well its about time some help showed up...thanks guys....

Irishknight -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 8:06:02 AM)
In the old days, pirates were often tried at sea. They were often executed at sea. I have no problem with this if they are caught in the act. If they try to take a ship, they should be shot dead and left to feed the sharks. There is no "blaze of glory" in that, only death. Should they be caught with evidence that they are getting ready to commit piracy, such as weapons and shipping schedule, then they get to go to trial and sit in the dirtiest, filthiest prison we can find in the world. I think they need to be treated like animals because that is what they are.

philosophy -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 8:09:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse When the Navy seals killed the terrorists, that wasn't and execution, it was self defence for an innocent hostage. ....no-one is arguing against that. Some are arguing against killing as pre-emptive self defence.

kdsub -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 8:19:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well its about time some help showed up...thanks guys.... I will agree with your position as long as you don't try to tell me that deadly force is not warranted by ship crews and security forces, protecting themselves. Or Naval forces confronting suspected pirates that refuse to submit for interrogation and inspection. Do you think deadly force is warranted in a rescue mission to release kidnapped prisoners? Butch

slvemike4u -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 8:56:32 AM)
Of course I do Butch...and I find it hard to beleive that any post of mine could be misconstrued or is in any way ambiguous on this matter.Using deadly force to defend ones self is not the same as summary executions...which some posters seem to be championing.

kdsub -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 9:05:53 AM)
Just wanted to be sure of your stance...I do agree with you...there is no difference from capturing a home invader in St Louis and a pirate at sea...But once I say surrender and they say screw you kid gloves are off. Butch

popeye1250 -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 11:10:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Hard time in a federal penitentiary is hardly coffee and donuts servant...no one is advocating coddling these pirates...on the other hand your shoot on sight mentality is not helpful when one is trying to export and extol our way of life.Not to east to trumpet a society based on the "rule of law" when you decide to disregard it at every opportunity. Mike, "export and extol our way of life?" "Trumpet a society?" I don't recall those things being a part of the official policy of our govt. Most of the world hates us anyway, why would we want to "export our way of life" to them?

slvemike4u -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 2:32:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Hard time in a federal penitentiary is hardly coffee and donuts servant...no one is advocating coddling these pirates...on the other hand your shoot on sight mentality is not helpful when one is trying to export and extol our way of life.Not to east to trumpet a society based on the "rule of law" when you decide to disregard it at every opportunity. Mike, "export and extol our way of life?" "Trumpet a society?" I don't recall those things being a part of the official policy of our govt. Most of the world hates us anyway, why would we want to "export our way of life" to them? Popeye please explain to me how living up to our own standards of justice is a case of "export and extol our way of life" Is it your contention that we obey a system of laws and a code of conduct...only when dealing amongst ourselves. That would seem to suggest that we are free to do as we please once we take our act abroad.... Would this belief extend to holidays in Thailand,perhaps the rental of ums for sexual pleasure....as long as it is done abroad.

blacksword404 -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 4:39:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Popeye please explain to me how living up to our own standards of justice is a case of "export and extol our way of life" Is it your contention that we obey a system of laws and a code of conduct...only when dealing amongst ourselves. That would seem to suggest that we are free to do as we please once we take our act abroad.... Would this belief extend to holidays in Thailand,perhaps the rental of ums for sexual pleasure....as long as it is done abroad. It has always been my understanding that a person fell under the law of whatever jurisdiction they were in. In the case of a country, that countries law would have to be obeyed. In the case of International waters, Whose laws take precedent in a case like this? As much as I would like to see some dead pirates, we are a nation of laws. We follow our laws not for the sake of the pirates but for our own. Of course if they attempt to board then shoot them and give them a water burial. Capture in the case of suspected piracy but if they try to carry it out, well...

Politesub53 -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 4:48:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse Remember when Libya was giving the United States all kinds of problems? Reagan ended it in one night when a couple of fighter jets bombed his house. We didn't hear from him in over 20 years. Youre forgetting Lockerbie and Pan-Am flight 73 ( I think thats the number ) Both in retaliation for the above. Kind of makes all the " didnt hear from him for 20 years " nonsense redundant, wouldnt you say ?

popeye1250 -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 4:58:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Hard time in a federal penitentiary is hardly coffee and donuts servant...no one is advocating coddling these pirates...on the other hand your shoot on sight mentality is not helpful when one is trying to export and extol our way of life.Not to east to trumpet a society based on the "rule of law" when you decide to disregard it at every opportunity. Mike, "export and extol our way of life?" "Trumpet a society?" I don't recall those things being a part of the official policy of our govt. Most of the world hates us anyway, why would we want to "export our way of life" to them? Popeye please explain to me how living up to our own standards of justice is a case of "export and extol our way of life" Is it your contention that we obey a system of laws and a code of conduct...only when dealing amongst ourselves. That would seem to suggest that we are free to do as we please once we take our act abroad.... Would this belief extend to holidays in Thailand,perhaps the rental of ums for sexual pleasure....as long as it is done abroad. Hey Mike,....whatever floats your boat man.

slvemike4u -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 5:05:59 PM)
Not my boat Popeye,I actually cling to my own standard of behavior,one that does not deviate depending upon which land mass,or rocking boat deck my feet happen to be planted on.It is simpler that way...I find it easier than fashioning a set of values to suit a given situation......One value set,for all situations.

popeye1250 -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 5:09:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Not my boat Popeye,I actually cling to my own standard of behavior,one that does not deviate depending upon which land mass,or rocking boat deck my feet happen to be planted on.It is simpler that way...I find it easier than fashioning a set of values to suit a given situation......One value set,for all situations. Mike, well what do you do when you go to "Thailand?"

kdsub -> RE: Russians capture Somalia Pirates (4/29/2009 5:13:33 PM)
You would think that the member nations participating in policing the Somali coast would come up with an agreement allowing any nation to apprehend pirates regardless of the nationality of the attacked ship. Then have a procedure for, who, where and how to apply the law. It is idiotic to hunt down and release pirates because of the nationality of the attacked ship...maybe get a bunch together then offer a trade for hostages. Butch

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