Incorrect representation through terminology (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 7:34:13 AM)

This morning, as I often do during My wake up routine, I went back to several threads that I had been participating in the day before.  Very interesting and intelligent contributions had been made since I had visited last.  Of course, on these threads there were from different perspectives.  Some matched My own and some didn't.  Much like any other day.

What did draw My attention, not only today but last week as well, was the tendency for some to use terms in an incorrect manner stated as fact.  For example, poly is not an synonym for open marriage.  (It not a synonym for swingers, either, if you're wondering.)  Another was that poly was a kink, rather than a lifestyle choice.  That a preference automatically links to deal breaker, etc., etc.

Different terms mean different things to different people.  There are many that have multiple meanings in regard to wiitwd.  My definition of a term may not agree with yours or even be the most popularly accepted, however it not being so does not negate it.  Please do not use yours to paint misconceptions on people with such a big brush.

Thank you.



InTonguesslut -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 7:42:58 AM)

I think many people are on the same page in a discussion but as soon as words like poly, slave, limits, sub, masochist, sadist etc etc come out there are problems. Everyione seems to define them differently so it causes problems in discussion even where people agree.
I'm with you on the just cos your definition is so and so doesnt make mine so but its not going to change unless a 'universal bdsm definition' book hits the stands and even then..............



IronBear -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 7:59:01 AM)

For years now I believe the value of asking questions if you need to qualify something said to you  and at times repeat the statement given or at the very least, tell the other person what you understand their statement they made, in order to ensure that you understand what they are really saying. This annoys some people but by and large those folk who have an ounce of common sense will understand that you are trying to be on the same page, paragraph and line as they are. I have taught this too as part of teaching better communications. My rule of thumb is: "When in doubt, ask." Those who get agro when you do this certainly are not teachers and probably aren't worthy of your time. 



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 8:13:10 AM)

In the case of Poly, no it's not swinging and no it's not an open marriage either. What kills me is that some people adopt or use words without spending any time actually researching the word, the label or the meaning behind it.

In short, when people start misusing words without investing time to learn what the word actually means. So yeah, some people can be a bit stubborn and hold onto personal meanings out of innocent lazy ignorance.

However, just because one misuses a word does not dismiss the point they are trying to make. Be certain to correct the misuse of a word and not the meaning the person is trying to convey. Just because somebody misunderstands the meaning of a word does not negate what they are trying to express.

This issue is not just some BDSM exclusive either. Pick any topic for discussion and the meaning of words varies according to how people best understand the meaning of a given word.

Again, why it's best to look at the context of what is being said verses ripping apart word use to the nth degree. Mind you there is nothing wrong with presenting and exploring the meaning of a word or a label.

Some people really do not understand the difference between "Regressive Age Play" verses "Sexual Age Play". However just using the phrase "Age Play" people automatically assume it's sexual age play, which is a mistake in itself. Why? Because people have not taken time to read up and explore this topic.

It's a shame that some people spend more time trying to defend their own ingornace compared to spending time actually reading up and learning more about the concepts and meanings behind words and labels.



Antheia -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 8:29:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

For years now I believe the value of asking questions if you need to qualify something said to you  and at times repeat the statement given or at the very least, tell the other person what you understand their statement they made, in order to ensure that you understand what they are really saying. This annoys some people but by and large those folk who have an ounce of common sense will understand that you are trying to be on the same page, paragraph and line as they are. I have taught this too as part of teaching better communications. My rule of thumb is: "When in doubt, ask." Those who get agro when you do this certainly are not teachers and probably aren't worthy of your time. 


Very true. But there are some on the forums that when you ask a question you get more insults or snide remarks than any real help. Thankfully they are in the minority here.
A.



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 8:34:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Antheia

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

For years now I believe the value of asking questions if you need to qualify something said to you  and at times repeat the statement given or at the very least, tell the other person what you understand their statement they made, in order to ensure that you understand what they are really saying. This annoys some people but by and large those folk who have an ounce of common sense will understand that you are trying to be on the same page, paragraph and line as they are. I have taught this too as part of teaching better communications. My rule of thumb is: "When in doubt, ask." Those who get agro when you do this certainly are not teachers and probably aren't worthy of your time. 


Very true. But there are some on the forums that when you ask a question you get more insults or snide remarks than any real help. Thankfully they are in the minority here.
A.



I've seen this happen time and time again, where somebody new to BDSM, D/s or the site asks a sincere yet simple question to be literally eaten alive. It's made me wonder if perhaps some people fillfull their mental S&M play time using the message boards. lol



Andalusite -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 8:35:27 AM)

Some poly relationships are also open marriages, but a lot of poly folks aren't married, and quite a few people want a closed polyfi vee/triad/etc.

I don't think of poly as being a kink, but rather a relationship style, but for purposes of listing it as a hard limit, I can see why people would put it in that category.

Anyway, you're never going to get everyone to agree on definitions for all of the words we use, but I think most people are able to understand what we mean by them, and clarification is useful. :)



beargonewild -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 8:43:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This morning, as I often do during My wake up routine, I went back to several threads that I had been participating in the day before.  Very interesting and intelligent contributions had been made since I had visited last.  Of course, on these threads there were from different perspectives.  Some matched My own and some didn't.  Much like any other day.

What did draw My attention, not only today but last week as well, was the tendency for some to use terms in an incorrect manner stated as fact.  For example, poly is not an synonym for open marriage.  (It not a synonym for swingers, either, if you're wondering.)  Another was that poly was a kink, rather than a lifestyle choice.  That a preference automatically links to deal breaker, etc., etc.

Different terms mean different things to different people.  There are many that have multiple meanings in regard to wiitwd.  My definition of a term may not agree with yours or even be the most popularly accepted, however it not being so does not negate it.  Please do not use yours to paint misconceptions on people with such a big brush.

Thank you.



In keeping with the gist of your post, do you ever see a time when many of the terms that we use in WIITWD eventually having a standard and acceptable definition? In the general sense, most people commonly accept the definition of bisexuality, heterosexuality, monogamy, polygamous, etc. Granted we all take what is appropriate to our own lives yet don't we all start with a basic ground and then go from there?



LadyPact -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 8:52:46 AM)

I'm kind of surprised folks are interested in this topic.  Thank you for your participation.

I definitely do agree with Iron Bear and Whiplash.  Sometimes, it is a matter of learning.  Some people aren't willing to do so, but many are.  I find that very hopeful.

Hugs to you, bear.  I think your question is probably bigger than I am.  I'm not even sure that universal definitions would be a good idea.  Bi-sexuality is an excellent example, because from it we get bi-curious, situationally bi, and others.  Many of those mean different things to different people, and I don't think we'll ever pin them down to an absolute. 

Antheia, you do have a point.  Sometimes, we're not always as helpful about our definitions of terms as we should be.  I'm certainly not perfect.  Still, I think it's better to ask.  Communication is a valuable tool, but it works a lot better when we're speaking the same language.



tiinkerbell -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 8:52:48 AM)

I have come to the conclusion that for myself, I have to ask alot of questions in regards to 'terminology' and individuals. I don't have a hard time with the definitions per se; but rather with how all individuals must have their own definition ( I guess that is a good way to say it )

I know that definitions are subjective; yet, I find it hard to distinguish one's personal definition from another's. They all seem pretty much the same to me.



SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 8:57:24 AM)

I've noticed this a lot on the site, if it's something I need clarifiaction on I'll ask, but usually I can use the context to figure out what's really being said. Obviously, if getting involved with someone, it's important to get on the same page with these things.



breatheasone -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 9:01:59 AM)

Antheia
quote:

there are some on the forums that when you ask a question you get more insults or snide remarks than any real help. Thankfully they are in the minority here.
A.


Whiplashsmile4
I've seen this happen time and time again, where somebody new to BDSM, D/s or the site asks a sincere yet simple question to be literally eaten alive. It's made me wonder if perhaps some people fillfull their mental S&M play time using the message boards. lol

yeah, i kinda took a year break from the forums because the attacks on different people were just ridiculous. For those that manage to tough it out though, these boards can be kinda fun and informative.





RealSub58 -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 9:15:56 AM)

If I don't understand the context in which any word is used,
freedictionary is not hard to find.
 
I find myself in the herd as often as any other human being.
After all, we enjoy the mentality of looking like we are thinking with originality.  We also like the warmth of the herd.

I was taught, way back in college, when dinosaurs were dying out, the awesome term ~~ clarification. [sm=ubanana.gif]

an interpretation that removes obstacles to understanding
to make clear or easier to understand; elucidate
to clear of confusion or uncertainty
an explanation that results from interpreting something
the removal of ambiguity

It has been my observation that if someone is asked to clarify, it becomes a matter of defensiveness instead of understanding so that incorrect interpretation of terminology is eradicated.

It's an example of our society which prejudges and of course finds narrow mindedness worthy to be adorned as well as adored, and just plan lazy and finds the herd a safe place to blend in.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 9:37:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

What did draw My attention, not only today but last week as well, was the tendency for some to use terms in an incorrect manner stated as fact.  For example, poly is not an synonym for open marriage.  (It not a synonym for swingers, either, if you're wondering.)  Another was that poly was a kink, rather than a lifestyle choice.  That a preference automatically links to deal breaker, etc., etc.



Since both those statements were mine...

As I stated to you on the other board, I do understand that poly, open marriage and swinging are different things.  I tend to approach them "definitionally" from the vanilla side of the fence, where even bisexual and homosexual activities will broadly be defined as "kink".  I also understand how they can and are defined as "lifestyle choices/preferences."  But from there, I believe that BDSM as a whole is a lifestyle choice with various forms of "kink" intertwined based on those involved. 

I think the preference being "automatically linked to a deal breaker" is a personal choice.  I know that some monogamous people will enter into a poly situation, while for others, like me, it is a deal breaker in a relationship.  Deal breakers are totally defined by each individual and what it is they seek.

The thing that aggravates me more than anything when it comes to terminology is the concept that there is only one true way to be a slave, submissive, dominant or master.  My personal "dream" is that people on all sides of the fence in all lifestyles would simply learn to accept that there rarely is one strict definition for anyone, and as long as everyone in the respective relationship is happy and content with how it is going, no one has the right to judge whether they are doing it the "true/right" way.  Of course, that is like wishing for world peace and never likely to happen, but it is nice to dream of the everyone getting along scenario.




Rainfire -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 10:12:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

In keeping with the gist of your post, do you ever see a time when many of the terms that we use in WIITWD eventually having a standard and acceptable definition? In the general sense, most people commonly accept the definition of bisexuality, heterosexuality, monogamy, polygamous, etc. Granted we all take what is appropriate to our own lives yet don't we all start with a basic ground and then go from there?


Part of the problem that I see with the "basic ground" as you call it, oh faboo-Bear of mine, is that different people have different "basic ground", based on factors as varying as where they first heard of something (I still shudder when someone thinks they're an expert Dominatrix because they watched "Exit to Eden" - the movie) or maybe where they live. Did they get their basic "definition" of what something is based on the media, like a movie or TV show? Did they read something online and run with that? Even if we were to look something up in a dictionary, it still might not match someone's personal definition of a word. And to a lot of people, "poly", "open" and "swinging" are all the same, even if people who taken the time to learn know differently.

I think it boils down to being able to talk to someone about how they see something. If we can't ask "you know, when you mention that you're poly, what does that mean to you?" then problems arise. I know someone who uses the term "polygamous" interchangeably with "polyamourus"  and even though I personally know some polygamists and tried to explain the difference as I knew it, they continue to use the catch-phrase "poly" to mean any number of things, I just have to take it in context. I'm still thankful that someone took the time to help explain to me what poly meant to them a year ago - I had a totally wrong impression of it. [:)]



SailingBum -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 10:12:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact



What did draw My attention, not only today but last week as well, was the tendency for some to use terms in an incorrect manner stated as fact.  For example, poly is not an synonym for open marriage.  (It not a synonym for swingers, either, if you're wondering.)  Another was that poly was a kink, rather than a lifestyle choice.  That a preference automatically links to deal breaker, etc., etc.

Different terms mean different things to different people.  There are many that have multiple meanings in regard to wiitwd.  My definition of a term may not agree with yours or even be the most popularly accepted, however it not being so does not negate it.  Please do not use yours to paint misconceptions on people with such a big brush.

Thank you.



To my mind poly equates to open marriage/ relationship.  "Kink" as opposed to "lifestyle choice".
Ppl have spent hours in the forums talking about what "this" word means.  A complete waste of typing skill in my book.

What is important.  The people that are in the relationship have a understanding of what "this" word means. ie  When I call my girl "my bitch"  she knows I do not mean a whiny, nagging, miserable cunt.

So I typically avoid like the bubonic plague any threads that claim "this is the proper use of term X"
and cite ad nausea why.

BadOne



GreedyTop -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 10:22:35 AM)

~FR~

the problem, as I see it, with the idea of asking people to define how THEY define any given term is that -unless they realize that the person they are speaking to has a different definition of the term - how would they know to ask?



DesFIP -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 10:22:51 AM)

If I know that I don't understand how someone else uses a term, then of course I will ask what they mean by that. I think most if not all will.

The problem of course, is that we don't know that we don't know. We believe our definition is universal because we don't know of any other definitions. If we knew of another definition, we would ask which of the definitions the other person meant.

It's easy to clear up problems when we know the problem is miscommunication, unfortunately we don't know that upfront.



RCdc -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 10:26:31 AM)

Poly simply means 'many'.  If people want to use a short term for something that is such a broad spectrum, you are going to get misconcerptions on what you use for it.
Until the term changes in the dictionary, I still see it as meaning many.  If you want to be precise and understood, then I would suggest one use the correct ajoining term.  If you mean polyamory, then say polyamory.(Or insert whatever is implied).
 
the.dark.



SailingBum -> RE: Incorrect representation through terminology (4/30/2009 10:48:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If I know that I don't understand how someone else uses a term, then of course I will ask what they mean by that. I think most if not all will.

The problem of course, is that we don't know that we don't know. We believe our definition is universal because we don't know of any other definitions. If we knew of another definition, we would ask which of the definitions the other person meant.

It's easy to clear up problems when we know the problem is miscommunication, unfortunately we don't know that upfront.


Most ppl realize that there is more that one meaning for a word.  It about context.  Of course poly means more than one.  One this site I see the word poly Im NOT thinking POLYpropylene. 

I knew I should have stayed out of this thread the dictionary police are suiting up for a riot of words.

Im outta here before they start tossing word usage, slang,  and VERBATIM in the fray

BadOne



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