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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/3/2006 9:54:26 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Uhh, that's not how I read (and just reread) the OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I thought the OP question was move about sadism as in brutal behavior regardless of sexual arousal for the predator him/herself.


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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/4/2006 10:26:56 AM   
Unameme


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A Great Big Thank You to all who have replied to this thread I started,
Lord an Master was on track as to my real inquiry
This being Male, Aggressors / Kidnappers / Rapist's / Torturer's
There Modus Operandi, is commonly taking a person against thier will,
then moving them to a Place where they then, Confine, restrain,
Intimidate, physically and emotionally use their position of power to turn
their victim into a being that will do anything for thier abductor/rapist/etc
These are common garden variety Sadist / Aggressor / Male perp's / perv's
How is it Woman don't seem to fall into this behavior ?
Especially so seemingly that Woman who have fallen themselves prey to
these male aggressor's / rapists.
They don't retailiate ?
Am I making my point clear ?
I think Woman are Generally a nicer Species than Men,
is this it ?
Are any Sadistic Dom Females , out here that can tell me about why it seems
that Women don't cross this line,
The line of the Law of our Society , that say it is Wrong to Abduct, kidnap , rape, torture
Which I totally aggree with , Make that clear,
The police log of nearly any moderately large city has their cases of Abduction by Males
against 90% against females,
But Woman abducting men is nearly non existent, and with Rohypnol etc woman could
get males in a vunerable situation ,
Any one care to comment ???
Well in love an peace , Bluesmate

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/4/2006 2:56:10 PM   
Tristan


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Daniel Boone, when captured by the Indians, decided to run the gauntlet with only the warriors because he believed the women and children were more vicious. I’ve read a few other accounts of some of the tortures that the Indian women inflicted on the men and women captured by their tribes that will make your stomach turn.

As for Karla Homolka, I read that she made her deal with prosecutors before anyone looked closely at the evidence of the crimes. The coroner later said that he believed Karla was the one who actually murdered the women because there were two imprints on the backs of all of the murdered women that the coroner believes was caused by Karla’s knees as she strangled the women. She even poisoned her own sister. She only did about 10 years because of her deal with prosecutors who originally believed she was a victim.

As for why women don't cross the line the OP suggested was rape and intimidation, I think that it's partly because it's more difficult for a woman to rape a man in the classical sense. I think there is just as much violence committed by women as men. It might take on different forms, but the intent remains to cause pain and suffering. The desire to cause pain and suffering doesn't seem to be something that correlates well with gender.

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/4/2006 4:06:14 PM   
Unameme


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Hello Tristan,
Thanks for your thoughts on this subject, I would really like to read of Daniel Boone's misadventures if you happen to know of a book that is available, American History was Sooooo boring in School, Dates and places contracts, blah , blah , think my ears might of perked up with some of the "other" American history going on.
It may be that Woman for so long into the past have been tied to domestic duties and
subservient to Males,
But know with more woman than men graduating from colledge, Woman are staging themselves with already mounted inertia , to pass the Male Dominated hold of Business,
And no matter what one's view on Gender Superiority, or Equality, a change that once was just in the Wind , has materialized into the shift of the purse strings, Where in the Building trades are working on projects for Woman by Woman,
Males are becoming beast's of burden,, quicker, earning wages , but those paying wages, are Powerful Woman,
Of course this isnt true across the board but the Power Brokers Club, now have more Woman than ever before,
The Smell of Burning Bras isnt in the air anymore, The smell of expensive perfume on Confident Woman wearing tailored grey suits is,
Can't say that I mind at all,
My life goes on no matter who is in Power, hehe
Anyway in love an peace Bluesmate,

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/4/2006 6:37:06 PM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uhh, that's not how I read (and just reread) the OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I thought the OP question was move about sadism as in brutal behavior regardless of sexual arousal for the predator him/herself.




In that case, I'll adjust what I said about judging sadism then to include both men and women. Historically speaking I think we would have a great deal of difficulty proving that the violence was to produce a sexual turn-on.

Much easier to prove in the modern times when psychologists can interview a person and we have better forensic evidence to determine such a thing.

There is also a huge difference, I would argue, between clincial sadism (which is an illness) and sadism in the BDSM sense.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/5/2006 8:04:07 AM   
candystripper


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quote:

The Most Evil Women In History

LadyTantalize


~Nominates former mother-in-law, LOL~

candystripper

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/5/2006 11:31:43 PM   
mantis65


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Karla Homolka Fascinates me there are some sexy pictures of her and I
believe her to be pure evil. (what she did is still wrong) sexy in a sick way but evil

I also believe some husband and wife sex killer teams are directed by the female using the male as “muscle” to live out her crimes.
Of course it looks like in court she was a victim also. There’s some stuff I have read about Karla that suggests she was playing the role of sex slave yet actively involved in planning some of the crimes.


I have the Lady Bathory figure from McFarline toys she bathing in a tub full of blood.
Woman like this fascinate me that why I have to be careful sometimes with strange Woman online.

I think woman just get caught less historically and they are more likely to use seduction rather than brute force.

< Message edited by mantis65 -- 2/5/2006 11:46:15 PM >

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 12:44:45 AM   
candystripper


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Have we discussed the Borgias? (LOL: once again, being Catholic is not for weenies.)

The First Crime Family

The papal guards forced the ragged prisoners into St. Peter's Square. They were shackled at the wrists and gathered in a close knot near its geographical center. The guards formed a phalanx at the broad entry into the square, preventing escape. The prisoners looked up at the Vatican windows, where, on a small balcony at one of the larger windows, the seventy-year-old Pope Alexander VI, formerly Rodrigo Borgia, stood with his twenty-year-old daughter, Lucrezia Borgia. Both were smiling. A few windows away, dressed completely in black velvet, was Alexander's son, Cesare Borgia. Beside him was a servant, also dressed all in black.

Were they about to hear words of mercy? Some generous dispensation for their crimes, which ranged from the serious to the trivial? Perhaps they were hopeful.

Suddenly, one of the prisoners fell, shot by Cesare. The prisoners scurried throughout the square, aware that someone in one of those windows was firing upon them. With each shot, the servant handed Cesare a new rifle, fully primed, and he fired again. Each shot was followed by a fresh rifle, and another shot. Within a matter of minutes, all of the prisoners were dead.

Alexander waved to his son. "Fine aim, my son," said the Pope. Cesare smiled and waved back, and he and his servant left the window and entered the Vatican apartment. Four men, pulling a cart, began to remove the bodies, tossing them in like limp sacks of grain. Cesare's harvest was taken away, to be thrown into the Tiber.

* * *

The details of this scene have been imagined, but the basic facts of the event are true. Johannes Burchard, the papal master of ceremonies, loyal servant to his master, Alexander VI, recorded the scene in his diary.

* * *

A strange and bewildering family, the Borgias. Eleven cardinals of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Three popes. A queen of England. A saint. A family with long tentacles, beginning in the Fourteenth Century in Spain, and reaching through the history of Fifteenth and Sixteenth Century Italy, Spain, and France. Greed, murder, incest. And --- strangely --- piety.

Such is the legacy of the Borgia family that established itself in one of Italy's most glorious periods, and that, in many ways, dominated the Renaissance with power and intrigue for fifty years. In a number of ways, it was a heritage whose influence on Church and State was felt for two hundred years.

Of this notorious family, four members in particular are remembered, if only vaguely, as remarkable examples of greed and evil. Two were popes: Calixtus III (Alonso Borgia) and Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia). Another, Cesare Borgia, was, for a time, a cardinal, elevated to that position by his acknowledged father, Alexander VI, and later, after leaving holy orders, a murderous and ruthless duke. The fourth member has become a metaphor for feminine evil: Lucrezia Borgia, sister of Cesare.

While other family members make important appearances in this drama of familial power, these four form the nucleus for which the family is remembered. They are handsome, charming, and amoral. Like Mafia dons, they inspired admiration and loyalty. But, most of all, they inspired fear:

I met Cesare yesterday in the house in Trastevere: He was just on his way to the chase dressed in a costume altogether worldly: that is, in silk --- and armed. He had only a little tonsure like a simple priest. I conversed with him for a while as we rode along --- I am on intimate terms with him. He possesses marked genius and a charming personality, bearing himself like a great prince. He is especially lively and merry and fond of society. [This] archbishop never had any inclination for the priesthood but his benefices bring him in more than 16,000 ducats annually.

--- Andrea Boccaccio, describing Cesare Borgia when he was a priest, just before being elevated to cardinal.

Unlike the mad Caligula, who killed in insane pleasure, or Nero and his predecessors, who killed for political gain, the Borgias killed not only for pleasure and political gain, but for personal wealth. They were, indeed, the first crime family, a family unique to the annals of crime. They were not bound together by blood ritual, but by genes.

Lucretia Borgia Reigns in the Vatican in the Absence of Pope Alexander VI

http://www.crimelibrary.com/borgia/borgiamain.htm

candystripper


< Message edited by candystripper -- 2/6/2006 1:04:55 AM >

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 6:57:43 AM   
Unameme


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Hello Mantis,
I aggree Karla Homolka, is a very seductive, Fox, She could sell matches to
the souls who have burned in Hell since Hell first got its own zip code,
Another Seductress, who though didn't fall into the Male Modus Operandi of
abductor / Rapist / Torturer / is
Pam Smart
Mid 1980's in New Hampshire usa.
Pam Smart High School music teacher became a House hold word ,
as well as major fantasy for many a young as well as older " Boi ". s.
She at the time was in her early mid twenties,
Married to a Insurance Salesman,
lived a comfortable middle class lifestyle,
She got bored with her Insurance salesman husband
She became involved with a lower class,
Male Student of her's ,
And Sexually involved,
Manipulated oooooOOOooooohhhh yeah
this young man ,, So masterfully
To kill her Insurance Sales man husband,
So that she got his Life Insurance settlemant,
and the promise that She and her lil boi,
to whom this Supreme Seductress extrodiare,
would then be able to be with each other all the time,
This trial was on the local television station ,
before court tv and such,
I never get to excited about murder , but this trial was riveting
This Pam Smart was a Sexy, Cute, Cuddly, vunerable, looking and appearing Woman
She had photos shown of her in lingere , a knock out , Wicked Sexy ,
She in court appeared , Doe Eyed, prim and proper, cute,
A chamelon.
She not only manipulated this "One' young 15 year old boi
But a whole group of Students at this time, who testified in Court
about their knowledge and role in the Crime, of the Killing of
Pam Smarts , Husband,
It was an Interesting case, it had everything, thrown in this real life plot,
Manipulation, Sex, Hormones, Deception, Murder,Power , Monetary gain
and the aftermath of
Death, Broken lives, Prisons, Broken Hearts, All because.....................

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 7:03:21 AM   
Unameme


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Candy Stripper,
Interesting story, and thanks for the Web Site for crime library,
I will spend some time checking that site out ,
in love an peace Bluesmate

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 7:50:41 AM   
LadyTantalize


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quote:

But Woman abducting men is nearly non existent, and with Rohypnol etc woman could
get males in a vunerable situation ,


We don't need too --- they'll simply do it if we ask. A mere smile and a nod could bring a victim to many women. A luring word and next known they are IN a vulnerable situation and if they survive it, most would be too humiliated to tell - or too elated and wanting of more! *grins* A mere mention of this type of fantasy will often bring even the most pious and vanilla men to their knees in fervor and anticipation.

Women control sex, whether many want to admit it or accept it - women are usually to ones to say yes or no. In loosing this control over sex, some men feel powerless hence the need for nonconensual, sexual violence against women - those men should be shot like a rapid dog, in My opinion. Few male rapists or abductors actually hold their victims hostage and torture them, some do and those are actual sadists (Cameron Hooker, Paul Bernardo, etc.) while others like Ted Bundy who used violent attacks to render the victim comatose, the violent act is about power, only his necrophilia is actually a sexual perversion. Most women, if so desiring sexual sadism or perversion, do not have to go such extremes to obtain it - it is easily found from many men and even other women.

Also, men's fantasies are often more literal than most women's, I think. In as such, women can be more cunning in their sadism and can obtain sastifaction with less literal variations of perversion while men need actual visual and physical activities. Case in point, being the comment of how the partners-in-crime of many male sadists (Rosemary West, Karla Homolka, etc.) as merely using men as the muscle and are still satisfying their sadism whether they executed the violence or not. (And I agree in that I too think Karla was the MAIN sadist and in that scenario and she offered him the victims to amuse herself and inadvertently satisfy her sadism)!

Anyway, history HAS shown us that women can be extremely cunning and crafty in their sadism, and can be just as evil as men - possibly more so but just not as overt or blatant about it. All just My opinion and of course, ALL individuals differ, a one-size-fits-all answer certainly does not apply!!


Great discussions!!!



_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 7:52:03 AM   
Sartoris32801


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quote:

What I seek is Actual Female, Aggressor / Abductor / Sadist who did confine and torture a Male.



Catholic Nuns!

Anyone who attended a parochial school, can attest to that

Sartoris

_____________________________

Oh, the shark, babe, has such teeth, dear
And it shows them pearly white
Just a jackknife has old MacHeath, babe
And he keeps it … ah … out of sight.

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 7:53:01 AM   
LadyTantalize


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quote:

I think woman just get caught less historically and they are more likely to use seduction rather than brute force.



Ahhhhhhhhhh, mantis My friend, I do like the way you think!

*charming smiles*




_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 8:01:15 AM   
LadyTantalize


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You've made some very good points, TammyJo! Although this one I've not sorted through yet in Mind.....


quote:

There is also a huge difference, I would argue, between clincial sadism (which is an illness) and sadism in the BDSM sense.


I sort of think sadism is sadism, the illness lies within how it is controlled or lack thereof, contained, channeled and acted upon. But at the heart of it, still lies sadism - just My humble opinion.



_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 9:31:22 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTantalize


You've made some very good points, TammyJo! Although this one I've not sorted through yet in Mind.....


quote:

There is also a huge difference, I would argue, between clincial sadism (which is an illness) and sadism in the BDSM sense.


I sort of think sadism is sadism, the illness lies within how it is controlled or lack thereof, contained, channeled and acted upon. But at the heart of it, still lies sadism - just My humble opinion.




I think the big difference is the motivations and the view of the person acted upon.

I define myself as a BDSM sadist -- I enjoy making a person react to sensations that most people would call painful. However I also want that other person to get something positive from it be if pleasure from the sensation itself or pleasure from making me happy. The other person gets nothing positive = I don't do this with that individual.

A clincial sadist (such as most of those we've mentioned in this thread) actually do not want the target to feel anything positive, the target probably isn't a person in the sadist mind at all or they may be a person who needs to be made less than that. The clincial sadist would be turned off by a consensual scene because the other person is consenting, is getting something positive from it, it cannot feed the needs/desires of the clincial sadist. As for control, the clincial sadist as show a lot of skill and control in planning and carrying out his/her desires.

Part of the problems faced in psychology and related fields has been over BDSM and the clincial versions. Intially the medical and legal communities didn't see a difference at all.

But honestly do you want to be placed in the same category as a rapist or murderer or torturer? Do you think of yourself and your interests as the same? This isn't a question just directed at LadyTantalize but at all of us who use the term 'sadist'.

For me, I am not in any shape or form a murder or a rapist or a torturer. I do what I do out of lust and love for myself and for my partner(s) who are wonderful people whom I would give my own life to protect from a clincial sadist.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 9:46:25 AM   
yourMissTress


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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTantalize


You've made some very good points, TammyJo! Although this one I've not sorted through yet in Mind.....


quote:

There is also a huge difference, I would argue, between clincial sadism (which is an illness) and sadism in the BDSM sense.


I sort of think sadism is sadism, the illness lies within how it is controlled or lack thereof, contained, channeled and acted upon. But at the heart of it, still lies sadism - just My humble opinion.




I think that sadism is sadism. BDSM gives us an outlet to express our innermost desires to inflict pain on others. One has only to watch a Mistress that enjoys CBT for proof of this.

quote:


Are any Sadistic Dom Females , out here that can tell me about why it seems
that Women don't cross this line,
The line of the Law of our Society , that say it is Wrong to Abduct, kidnap , rape, torture
Which I totally aggree with , Make that clear,
The police log of nearly any moderately large city has their cases of Abduction by Males
against 90% against females,
But Woman abducting men is nearly non existent, and with Rohypnol etc woman could
get males in a vunerable situation ,
Any one care to comment ???


I am very sadistic. I have no need to kidnap or otherwise take an unwilling victim because there are men (and lots of them) who are more than willing to lie down and let me do as I please.

Your statements about men being the perpetrators of these crimes more often than women ring true in every area where a human being is commiting a crime of physical or sexual abuse of another. Women are more often the victim and less often the abuser. Yet, the "victim's defense" runs rampant. It makes no sense to me.


< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 2/6/2006 9:47:36 AM >


_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 10:32:51 AM   
LadyTantalize


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quote:

But honestly do you want to be placed in the same category as a rapist or murderer or torturer? Do you think of yourself and your interests as the same? This isn't a question just directed at LadyTantalize but at all of us who use the term 'sadist'.



Well, of course, I do not as I am not. "Clinical" sadists (or "criminal sadists") lack conscience and have no empathy as victims are viewed as objects - this is psychopathy - that is the illness. Also, I do NOT engage in nonconsensual activities and in My eyes, that's a fine line but a major and very serious line, nonetheless! Murderer - no. Abductress and rapists - ONLY if it's done within the confines of a negotiated, consensual scene. "Torturer", yes! *grins*

quote:


A clincial sadist (such as most of those we've mentioned in this thread) actually do not want the target to feel anything positive, the target probably isn't a person in the sadist mind at all or they may be a person who needs to be made less than that. The clincial sadist would be turned off by a consensual scene because the other person is consenting, is getting something positive from it, it cannot feed the needs/desires of the clincial sadist.
Part of the problems faced in psychology and related fields has been over BDSM and the clincial versions. Intially the medical and legal communities didn't see a difference at all.

For me, I am not in any shape or form a murder or a rapist or a torturer. I do what I do out of lust and love for myself and for my partner(s) who are wonderful people whom I would give my own life to protect from a clincial sadist.



All true. And I too would die for My loves. And I too think "criminal sadists" are just that - criminals would should pay for their actions. But the root of the problem is not sadism, it's psychopathy and the lack of a conscience or empathy or downright insanity which is the inability to discern between right and wrong. Actually, the psychiatric field is making better strides in acertaining the origins and ramifications of a "lack of conscience" via much study in the semi-new field of profiling. Case in point are the various studies by FBI profilers and forensic psychiatrists who have discovered the link between the lack of parental bonding as a baby and the lack of conscience as an adult.

I feel it somewhat counter-productive to deny that BDSM sadism is not sadism. For you, maybe not. But I can assure you there are MANY in BDSM who identify as Sadists, have struggled with such for years and have spent much time, energy and effort into introspection, control and proper channeling. Saying one sadism is not the other sadism - true, they are different, but it's also like saying sea salt isn't salt - granted, it ain't table salt but it's still salt. Truly, I feel that more discussions, conversations, studies and even admittance by "BDSM sadists" of their opinions, experiences and self-analysis is a step in the right direction for developing the differations between consensual sadism and psychopathic sadism.

quote:


As for control, the clincial sadist as show a lot of skill and control in planning and carrying out his/her desires.


True and you are right. I feel that the lack of "control" in a "criminal sadists" lies more within the inability to have empathy and often the fantasies which feed the criminal become "out of control obsessions" - so while they control their actions, they are NOT in control of their emotions because they lack a conscience. But you are right, they do control what they do. I think it all boils down to the scientific terminology of psychopathy and the lack of conscience which defines the "criminal sadists" from the "BDSM sadists" or other varieties, such as Myself.

quote:

I define myself as a BDSM sadist -- I enjoy making a person react to sensations that most people would call painful. However I also want that other person to get something positive from it be if pleasure from the sensation itself or pleasure from making me happy. The other person gets nothing positive = I don't do this with that individual.


I would see this as a "Service Sadist" much like a "Service Top" in that you, evidently, are not deriving sexual pleasure from inflicting pain and suffering upon another but are exacting pain to please another and derive some degree of "enjoyment" for yourself.

But I do not "do" sadism from love, lust or for the enjoyment of My partner. I do consider Myself to be an "empathetic sadist" in that I can feel compassion for others, do feel sympathy, concern and compassion when I play, and I adore when a special partner gets satisfaction from My sadistic actions. But MUST I have that positive effect on another to gain satisfaction from inflicting pain - no I do not. I also gain great sadistic pleasure from times that My "playmates" do NOT derive pleasure, happiness or satisfaction from My actions. Granted, I play and explore MANY areas to please My partners and I want My partners safe, sane, happy and content. But I do not exert My sadism to please another, I control and channel My sadism to keep others safe, sane and in consent but My sadism in action pleases ME, first and foremost. When My sadism is exerted, it is done to please Me - if My partner garners pleasure or sastisfaction from it - yeah!

Again, fantastic discussions and I apologize if I am being too blunt regarding the subject, but hey that's Me.

*now everyone run, as Lady T., the Wicked Sadist Witch of the South is on the prowl* (gales of giggles)



_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 11:35:29 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTantalize

quote:

I define myself as a BDSM sadist -- I enjoy making a person react to sensations that most people would call painful. However I also want that other person to get something positive from it be if pleasure from the sensation itself or pleasure from making me happy. The other person gets nothing positive = I don't do this with that individual.


I would see this as a "Service Sadist" much like a "Service Top" in that you, evidently, are not deriving sexual pleasure from inflicting pain and suffering upon another but are exacting pain to please another and derive some degree of "enjoyment" for yourself.

But I do not "do" sadism from love, lust or for the enjoyment of My partner. I do consider Myself to be an "empathetic sadist" in that I can feel compassion for others, do feel sympathy, concern and compassion when I play, and I adore when a special partner gets satisfaction from My sadistic actions. But MUST I have that positive effect on another to gain satisfaction from inflicting pain - no I do not. I also gain great sadistic pleasure from times that My "playmates" do NOT derive pleasure, happiness or satisfaction from My actions. Granted, I play and explore MANY areas to please My partners and I want My partners safe, sane, happy and content. But I do not exert My sadism to please another, I control and channel My sadism to keep others safe, sane and in consent but My sadism in action pleases ME, first and foremost. When My sadism is exerted, it is done to please Me - if My partner garners pleasure or sastisfaction from it - yeah!

Again, fantastic discussions and I apologize if I am being too blunt regarding the subject, but hey that's Me.

*now everyone run, as Lady T., the Wicked Sadist Witch of the South is on the prowl* (gales of giggles)




I'm sorry but I'm laughing at the idea of me being a "service" anything.

I've had masochistic partners but my current slave of over 6 years is not a masochist in any sense or shape. When we do SM, when I hurt him and I do indeed hurt him (I promised not to harm him) its all for me in terms of the physical pleasure. He gets pleasure from making me happy.

Sorry that wasn't clearer.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyTantalize)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 11:56:19 AM   
LadyTantalize


Posts: 242
Joined: 4/13/2004
Status: offline


quote:

I'm sorry but I'm laughing at the idea of me being a "service" anything.

I've had masochistic partners but my current slave of over 6 years is not a masochist in any sense or shape. When we do SM, when I hurt him and I do indeed hurt him (I promised not to harm him) its all for me in terms of the physical pleasure. He gets pleasure from making me happy.

Sorry that wasn't clearer.



Got'cha! Apologies, it just didn't come across that way. Many people enjoying "hurting" others because the "other" enjoys it or because they like "BDSM sadism" as you put it where another is made "happy" or to feel "pleasure" because of it, but others who might more appopriately fit the mold of the actual defintion of a sadist are those who truly deriving gratification, specifically sexual pleasure, from inflicting pain and cruelty whether or not the partner or victim retains ANY degree of pleasure or happiness from the act! Anyway, glad we cleared that up! *g*

All I know is that I am a Female Sadist - I just haven't made history yet!

*big grins*

_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Woman Sadists throughout History ? - 2/6/2006 1:02:42 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline
Well, the real historical problem is that sadism (or what you're calling "clinical sadism") didn't exist before psychiatrists invented it in the nineteenth century. So we're inevitably applying anachronistic concepts back onto the past whenever we try to identify premodern "sadists." I think it's clear that some people have always enjoyed torturing other people, but no one considered that a matter of pathology, or even of sexual identity, until psychiatrists like Krafft-Ebing decided it was a mental disorder (and most of the Western world believed them).

My only point was that most of the women in that list didn't torture people. They just killed them--and not even because they enjoyed the act of killing, but because they stood to gain from the other persons' deaths.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

In that case, I'll adjust what I said about judging sadism then to include both men and women. Historically speaking I think we would have a great deal of difficulty proving that the violence was to produce a sexual turn-on.

Much easier to prove in the modern times when psychologists can interview a person and we have better forensic evidence to determine such a thing.

There is also a huge difference, I would argue, between clincial sadism (which is an illness) and sadism in the BDSM sense.


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 40
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