RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/5/2009 4:21:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

... isn't good or evil really a matter of perception? ...

I know evil when I see it or hear of it based on my perception, but does it qualify me to say that based on another's it is truly evil?


Mark,

You have hit upon the point that I was starting to make, which is that "evil" can only be defined in relation to a moral order, or a moral system.

In Carthage, during the worship of Baal, children were burned alive in worship ceremonies.  This was considered proper and moral in that society.

In my moral framework, this is evil.

So, when someone starts throwing out the accusations of "So-and-so are evil!", I wish to understand their moral beliefs.

Many "liberals" (no, not all) believe that all social system are inherently equal - or at least, no one can claim a higher morality than another.  This is the basis of multiculturalism.

I disagree with this moral relativism, although I intellectually understand their reasoning.

In the past, a "liberal" stood staunchly for individual rights, and freedoms, based on the Western, Christian moral heritage.  With the growing aceptance of moral relativism into liberal ideology, the concepts of individual rights and freedoms are being reduced in importance.

This is a major problem I have with "modern liberalism".

So ... when I get into a discussion about how "evil" conservatives are, I try to plumb the depths of these questions, and point out the inherent contradictions.

Firm




FirmhandKY -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/5/2009 4:28:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Up to there you had made a good argument(always do)....

ty

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Newspeak isn't strictly the domain of liberals my friend. For every liberal use of Newspeak I can give you a litney of those wonderful terms used by those to the opposite side...

You are correct. 

Redefining for PR purposes is a technique as old as speech.

However, I would posit that the left of center, through its control of the institutions of higher education, and it's original think tanks, actually made it a much more common, and conscious technique over the last few decades in the American political scene.

Not enough to alienate a friend, or die on my sword, but I think there is pretty good evidence of it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

"they considered themselves conservative"<-----notice the quotes...we both know they weren't....

No, they were not at all.

Firm




caught -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/5/2009 4:41:10 PM)

Morality is most useful and can only be conclusively understood in the context of a test.  Without that tension, morality is meaningless prologue.  We all know this, I think.  Its frightening to put yourself in such imagined situations.  What if your reptilian brain is predominating you at that moment where tender mercies may be preferable?  




Owner59 -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/5/2009 9:38:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

This thread is a laugh riot!  So many hypocritical ideologues lambasting other ideologues for being ideologues!

It’s them!  The others!  They’re the ones to blame!  Not us!

For fuck’s sake. 


Which ideologues lead us into an illegal invasion and got a hundred thousand plus Iraqis killed ?

Which ideologues got 42 hundred of our brave GI`s killed,for nothing?

If you think both are equivalent,that`s just disgusting.






caught -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/5/2009 11:21:20 PM)

Independent of anyone's opinion re: "ideologues," what have you done to truly preserve your country? Your nation? Your culture? How many noble vertebrae might this internet rest upon?




philosophy -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/5/2009 11:43:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caught

Independent of anyone's opinion re: "ideologues," what have you done to truly preserve your country? Your nation? Your culture? How many noble vertebrae might this internet rest upon?


..do you only count military endeavours? Or does volunteering count? Or working for lower pay than another in order to get a necessary job done? What about the Arts? Surely they're an important part of a culture, and an important part of preserving a culture? Essentially what i'm asking is what do you consider a vertebrae?




Marc2b -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 5:37:22 AM)

quote:

Which ideologues lead us into an illegal invasion and got a hundred thousand plus Iraqis killed ?

Which ideologues got 42 hundred of our brave GI`s killed,for nothing?

If you think both are equivalent,that`s just disgusting.


Well of course it's disgusting.  The other is always disgusting.  That's what makes it so easy to de-humanize them.  Once that is done you're free to wallow in you're own moral superiority.




Raiikun -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 6:11:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

When people start dishing out definitions straight out of the dictionary, it's because they're unsure of their own, know what I mean?


Nope.  Generally when I see people dishing definitions out of the dictionary, it's to address the differences between people's definitions, and try to establish a common ground when using the word for the debate.





TreasureKY -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 12:00:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

When people start dishing out definitions straight out of the dictionary, it's because they're unsure of their own, know what I mean?


Nope.  Generally when I see people dishing definitions out of the dictionary, it's to address the differences between people's definitions, and try to establish a common ground when using the word for the debate.




I would agree.  Then again, I've long ago reached the conclusion that few here are really interested in debate.  Seems a good number are more interested in making sardonic comments wrapped in pithy postings.

When in Rome...  [;)]






kittinSol -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 2:40:12 PM)

Ah, Rome... all that life, amongst all those ruins..




slvemike4u -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 6:42:17 PM)

Was that a pithy comment?




kittinSol -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 6:48:43 PM)

It's all about the culture war, Mike [8D] .




slvemike4u -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 6:56:00 PM)

In that case no worries,your well armed.




CruelNUnsual -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 9:13:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

In that case no worries,your well armed.


why, does she make her own yogurt?




TreasureKY -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/6/2009 10:24:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

In that case no worries,your well armed.


why, does she make her own yogurt?


Maybe she's a Boy George fan.  [:D]




CruelNUnsual -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/7/2009 1:08:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

In that case no worries,your well armed.


why, does she make her own yogurt?


Maybe she's a Boy George fan.  [:D]



you mean she was clubbed?




slvemike4u -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/7/2009 12:53:03 PM)

Treasure, you are just trying to furnish us with examples of "pithy" comments....right.You wouldn't be actually making some of your own....would you?




TreasureKY -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/7/2009 6:06:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Treasure, you are just trying to furnish us with examples of "pithy" comments....right.You wouldn't be actually making some of your own....would you?


I could be like Kittin and with an air of hautiness say you just don't get it...  [;)]

But instead I'll be helpful and point out that there was a reason I made the comment, "When in Rome...", above.  It was an admission acknowledging that I was guilty of following suit.

It's hard to have a serious discussion with people who post mainly cryptic quips.  Sadly, it leads to equally dismissive responses.




kittinSol -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/7/2009 6:13:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

I could be like Kittin and with an air of hautiness say you just don't get it...  [;)]



It's "haughtiness". You are welcome. And... you STILL have that thing in your eye.




slvemike4u -> RE: How (neo)conservatives Think (5/7/2009 6:15:14 PM)

Oh come now Treasure,there is many a good conversation to be had here.There is also an abundance of snappy repartee......sprinkled with some just plain off the wall comments.It's all good,more entertaining by far than most of the crap served up by TV programmers.
Enjoy yourself,none of us are involved in solving the worlds problems here.




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