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The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 6:26:41 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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Several years back, I was at a spanking group and a first-time young man, about to get spanked by a Domina, demanded to know what was the hardest spanking ever given before in the group.

I have seen profiles here and on alt from submissives who state that they wish to have their limits pushed.

This confuses me. A submissive who wants to compete with others on the basis of pain tolerance is focused on themself. A submissive who wants to push their own limits, again, is focused on themself.

Maybe this shouldn't bother me, but it seems like a submissive should be Dominant-focused and should strive for praise from them rather than get their satisfaction internally.

Thoughts?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Post #: 1

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 7:09:12 AM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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Wishing personal growth from their submission seems perfectly acceptable to me. It is part of the attraction for some. If all it is ever about is showing off and pushing their own envelope, then I think maybe someone has kind of missed the point. That is true in any social interaction, however. Meeting goals and tearing down walls is something entirely different and I encourage this within both my dominant and submissive relationships. That shows me a willingness to go the extra mile for me (in the case of being the dominant party) and also shows me that the submissive is willing to grow and expand rather than remaining static.

Internal satisfaction is something that will be there regardless in most healthy relationships. Full dependence on another for validation and praise is not normally all that advisable. So I may get some small thrill over the fact that I cooked a fabulous meal whether the dominant cared for the meal or not. I worked my butt off and I am proud of my accomplishment. It is just all the better if it is the best thing he/she has ever tasted. Same goes for pain play or edgy stuff. I don't see any reason to take a small satisfaction at peeking at those bruises or thinking back on defeating a major fear.

Now I could have quite a bit of fun with two morons who want to play who can take the most. Put them side by side and just go from one ass to the other. Sounds like a hoot! In all honesty though, I am not going to be interested in either of them for anything more serious because they have shown me the focus of their play has nothing to do with me whatsoever. I admit, I don't want to look like some wimp if I were to play around others, but I should hope that is not where my entire focus would lie. I hope (since I haven't played public before yet) that the whole world would disappear and I would be completely tuned to my partner and he/she to me.

Just my thoughts

lovingpet

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 2

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 7:32:56 AM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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i know my Daddy/Master would never want me to lose ME. So for me to not think about my limits, nor want to expand them would be unacceptable to both of Us really. But more importantly Daddy would hate it, if i wasn't self aware and seeking to grow. So, (in my opinion ONLY) its ok for me to focus on my limits sometimes. No one ever said it had to be the ONLY thing i would focus on.

_____________________________

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(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 3

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 7:37:18 AM

Carnae7

Posts: 72
Joined: 11/29/2008
Status: offline

I definitely agree that a sub should be focused on the Dominant. Personally MY focus is on pleasing the Dom, because I know that ultimately, that will bring me the most pleasure as well.

But as you say, this guy was young, and also a newbie. He was probably just 'posturing', which is quite normal for males in everyday society. ~smiles~ But, I'm hoping that a good strong Dom/Domme was eventually able to bring him under control and teach him better manners and a more appropriate way to behave.

However, if the young man was actually a 'switch', this is a whole different matter. I've found that even when switches are in 'sub mode', it seems to be more of a role of 'bottoming' and does not really embrace the submissive attitude. This could explain his attitude.

Then again, people who say they want to have their limits pushed, may be trying to tell the Doms/Dommes, that they are really needing 'more'. If they haven't really been to that place where their endorphins are having a major freak party, or not been to that place for a good while, it could really be a cry for help in reaching that wondrous place. Thus, they are telling Doms/Dommes that they want things pushed.

So... while it may be that they are focused on themselves, I think we all honestly have an internal focus. It's just a matter of what helps us get our needs met in a way that is also socially acceptable for others. Especially in this lifestyle, where there seems to be sooo many different ways of being.

_____________________________

How far is Heaven? Only as far away as my Master.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 4

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 7:54:15 AM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Carnae7
However, if the young man was actually a 'switch', this is a whole different matter. I've found that even when switches are in 'sub mode', it seems to be more of a role of 'bottoming' and does not really embrace the submissive attitude. This could explain his attitude.

I completely disagree with this and it is a common misconception about switches. A switch relating to a dominant can be just as possessed and owned as any unilateral submissive personality. It may take a stronger dominant presence in some cases to affect a switch in this way, but it can be done and it is just as real as any other submission. For me anyway, it is a chemistry thing. An energy thing.

*off my soapbox with apologies for the temporary hijack*

lovingpet.

(in reply to Carnae7)

Post #: 5

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 8:11:39 AM

HalloweenWhite

Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
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Maybe the sub thought that by showing how much he coud take he'd be more pleasing to the Dommes/Doms because of his willingness and ability to take a lot, should that be what the Domme/Dom wanted to do.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 6

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 8:23:55 AM

InTonguesslut

Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Several years back, I was at a spanking group and a first-time young man, about to get spanked by a Domina, demanded to know what was the hardest spanking ever given before in the group.

Well i'd have to say that this in itself does not say he was being competitive. He may just have been being curious. Anyhow i see nothing wrong with a little healthy competition at times.

quote:

Maybe this shouldn't bother me, but it seems like a submissive should be Dominant-focused and should strive for praise from them rather than get their satisfaction internally.

A sub / slave who is not internally satisfied, hmm sounds pretty unhealthy to me. I don't strive for praise from my Sir, i don't need it. I strive to be the best slave i can be for my Sir and in order to do that i need to be internally satisfied too.

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

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(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 7

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 8:42:50 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

A submissive who wants to push their own limits, again, is focused on themself.

I think that's just part of being human. For some of us, personal growth is important and power driven relationships are the best way we have to achieve our goals. I embrace that part of me that is selfish in this respect. I know what I need and want and I know what I need to do to get those things in a way that maximizes my potential for both growth and happiness. I don't live and breath for Sir. He's just a man who happens to be dominant. I don't think about him 24 hours a day and I know he doesn't think about me every waking moment either. Thank God, because that's way too much pressure! I can't even imagine being with someone who wouldn't want me to grow or who wasn't willing to grow themselves. It's not just those who serve who like having their limits pushed after all.

quote:

Maybe this shouldn't bother me, but it seems like a submissive should be Dominant-focused and should strive for praise from them rather than get their satisfaction internally.

Thoughts?

Maybe it shouldn't bother you. You might want to ask yourself why it does. Seems to me that a dominant who needs submissives to be focused on them so much so that they give no thought at all to themselves, might be suffering from some insecurity. My duty as his slave is not to please him or make him happy. It's to make his life easier by my obedience to his will. If my obedience makes him happy, great .. if it doesn't, then he should probably take some time to think about the commands he makes and why the adherence to those commands isn't garnering the feeling he's going for when he makes them.

That's my two cents .. but since the Euro is worth more than the dollar, I'd like some change, please.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 8

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 8:43:34 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Thoughts?

not everyone experiences submission the same way.

it isn't this slave's experience to limit Master to begin with...or to engange in anything other than friendly competitions when we gather with friends over pinball or Wii or Galaga.

this slave's dances with pain aren't a competition sport.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 9

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 8:57:00 AM

BeIgnited

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/23/2008
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I think part of it is just the nature of the beast.

Physical pain (and the pleasure that can come from it), for me, comes from the body and is processed internally. It's not as easy, in the moment, to make the connection between the sensation and other more amorphous notions outside the body. So going from "Fuck that hurts" to "Fuck that hurts, but I'm tough and I can take it" is easier because both are coming from me. Going from "Fuck that hurts" to "Fuck that hurts but I'm going to take that for him" is another form of transcendence that requires a bigger leap. It's something I'm still working on.

(in reply to InTonguesslut)

Post #: 10

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 10:18:01 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
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DS

I think you are reading to much into it. First off, why are you wasting your time over something that happened several years back? Gee there are so many new things to worry about.

I don't think it is wrong for a sub to want to push themselves and pass a limit. You really don't know the reason why the sub was doing it, so it is all conjecture on your part. They could have very valid reasons, of which you have no knowledge.

When I go in public with my Mistress, we discuss what I can and cannot do. Even when we go to public dungeons, She will let me know if She wants me to enter into any type of competition before we arrive. There have been times when playing at a public dungeon has been a reward and She has allowed me to take whatever pleases me.

But no one else would know that, just She and I. So it may appear I'm being selfish, but it is a reward earned and approved.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 11

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 10:41:17 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

To me with regard to the OP -- Well i have been a slave, and sorry but your understanding of slavery and i would believe submission from what i have read on this side of the board, is incorrect to an extent in my opinion. A slave has MAJOR needs, that's why you see many of them begging, pleading, attempting to please etc etc etc, that's what their life is - they seek things. I have yet to meet a content slave who doesn't get needs and yes wants and desires occassionally fulfilled. Its simply not up to them WHEN they get it, it doesn't mean they can't ask in some way for it. However, what you are confusing i believe is that you believe its up to the SLAVE to determine what he should and should not beg or want or need. That is simply not true, its up to the DOM or Master (in my case) to make the determinations of what i would receive and if they wished to accomodate the slave or submissive. Otherwise, you are having a slave decide what the Dom should and should not wish to grant them. The only way this could be a concept of power obtained by the slave is if the Dom or Master allows for a manipulation to occur wherein they are controlled by the asking and not by their own determination of what they will oblige.

If the Domina in question choose NOT to oblige this guy then no harm no foul on either person in my opinion, she as a Domina should be capable of making determinations based on the wants and desires and requests or even demands of the sub and CHOOSE what she will oblige if anything. If she becomes flustered or off because some sub is telling her exactly what he wishes for, then to me, i really don't believe she is ready for the control and mastery she wants.

To me, it is a VAST misconception and well heck MYTH, that slaves and many ways subs can't ask for or want or need things because many people believe that is taking the focus away from the Master -- personally, i don't think Masters or Doms should be that insecure. Slaves and subs need want asked for, beg, desire, demand, whine about, and plead for things all the time... that's what they do its part of being a slave. If you start believing them doing that is not focusing correctly, then to me the concept of the dynamic is lost. The MINDSET that many slaves and subs have and Masters i know have is -- they can ask, want, need, desire, beg, plead, demand all they wish, doesn't mean they will get it and even more so if its displeasing in the way they attempt to gain it -- there could be consequences they don't have.

So, i personally, do not see why such a thing would bother you. If it was a slave or sub doing it to you, you as a Dom would have had to make a choice as to what you will oblige or any consequences you wished to give for the way it was asked etc.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/6/2009 10:43:02 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 12

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 12:21:08 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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In terms of wanting someone to be proud of me.....Yep, it would be my master. That would apply to all situations.

I don't see much wrong with having aspirations, whatever they might be....and M is perfectly happy to oblige. I also don't find it at all odd to want or get internal satisfaction. We are all self-serving to some degree, it seems pretty natural to me.

Maybe I'm in a weird relationship but he is more focused on me than I am on him. When it comes to praise, well, it's very hard to come by in my relationship and I don't seek it often nor do I WANT to seek it.

agirl

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 13

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 2:02:31 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This confuses me. A submissive who wants to compete with others on the basis of pain tolerance is focused on themself. A submissive who wants to push their own limits, again, is focused on themself.

Maybe this shouldn't bother me, but it seems like a submissive should be Dominant-focused and should strive for praise from them rather than get their satisfaction internally.

Thoughts?

I think it really depends on the relationship and if they are scening with their own dominant or not. I like to explore how much pain I can take though I don't feel in competition with anyone else. I just enjoy the sensations so I want to try new things.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 14

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 2:43:56 PM

Miwsi

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Joined: 2/25/2009
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I don't fully understand that either.

I mean limits... what does that entail really?

If someone, for example, is like me-- I don't share my love, and I would not want to see my love with someone else. This would be a limit of sorts. For a Master to know this and try to push me into a threesome or poly relationship would make me run. That's a deal breaker, as is a man I am with to want children. I do not want to raise kids... and I would not bend for anyone. Those are both issues I tackle immediately with a potential mate. I don't want to waste anyone's time.

Again these are just examples.

I hope I am not off topic, but that's an example as to absolute limits. I haven't really explored a heck of a lot on the BDSM range other than some spanking and obedience.

< Message edited by Miwsi -- 5/6/2009 3:04:28 PM >

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 15

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 2:45:16 PM

KoolnSassy

Posts: 65
Joined: 5/5/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Several years back, I was at a spanking group and a first-time young man, about to get spanked by a Domina, demanded to know what was the hardest spanking ever given before in the group.

I have seen profiles here and on alt from submissives who state that they wish to have their limits pushed.

This confuses me. A submissive who wants to compete with others on the basis of pain tolerance is focused on themself. A submissive who wants to push their own limits, again, is focused on themself.

Maybe this shouldn't bother me, but it seems like a submissive should be Dominant-focused and should strive for praise from them rather than get their satisfaction internally.

Thoughts?

Yeah, one would think so, now wouldn't they? Great post.

_____________________________

If you don't know what you're doing, why do you think I know?

KoolnSassy

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 16

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 3:27:52 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I'm sooo not a competitive person whatsoever. I run as far away from competition as possible and the idea of "pushing my limits" isn't something you'll probably ever hear from me. If Master wishes to push them and he does sometimes, then that's his choice.

But it's not something that I ever bring up or wish for. I can request things from him and let him know how I'm feeling but in the end I know my job is to be obedient to Master and to make sure I am focusing on him..not on me.

(in reply to KoolnSassy)

Post #: 17

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 3:47:15 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Sorry, being totally dependent on another for your self esteem is not a healthy way to be. So if he has a bad day and snarls at me, then I should be broken down in tears feeling hopeless about myself? But if he has a good day and is indulgent to me then that day, for that day only, I should feel proud of myself? That's a mental breakdown waiting to happen.

Besides, you're assuming people are only submissive and not masochistic also. In the incident cited, it doesn't sound like he was focused on submission but on his masochism. And that's fine too. There are dominants who are also sadists and sometimes they just want to indulge their sadism. At a time like that a masochist who knows how much they can take could be the best possible partner for them.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 18

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 7:44:52 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I have seen profiles here and on alt from submissives who state that they wish to have their limits pushed.

There is a big difference between ‘pushing limits’ and setting a goal to progress past one’s limitations.
Focusing on what I want does not exclude the possibility that it is also what the dominant wants.

quote:

A submissive who wants to push their own limits, again, is focused on themself.

Both R. and S. are sadistic. Both insist that I let them know when my pain tolerance has been exceeded. Once I had a bit of experience under my (their?) belt, I noticed that immediately after I would use the safe word, I regretted it when the play stopped. I wanted to be able to have longer pain play sessions. So I talked to them both about that. Neither one complained or used the dreaded phrase “topping from the bottom”. We came up with a plan and over time, it worked. I haven’t stopped a session with R. for a very long time---he’s done long before I am. (S., on the other hand is a diabolical sadist and I will probably never get that far with him! )
Although it was a personal goal, for (gasp) my benefit, it also enhanced their pleasure,

quote:

Maybe this shouldn't bother me, but it seems like a submissive should be Dominant-focused and should strive for praise from them rather than get their satisfaction internally.

One of the biggest fallacies in D/s is that it is possible to focus solely on the dominant 100% of the time. It isn’t feasible in any circumstance. Although our brains can move from one thought to another in micro-milliseconds, they cannot hold more than one thought at a time. If a water pipe bursts in my basement, I’m sure what my dominants want me to focus on is turning off the water main and calling the plumber!

Certainly I want to please both R. and S. But if they want to be happy sadists, they recognize that I need to be a happy masochist as well. Sometimes that means I must focus inward rather than out.
Praise from either of them is very nice and certainly appreciated. But it would be meaningless if I didn’t have that internal satisfaction. My motivation comes from that internal source and is a more solid foundation for a fulfilling relationship.

< Message edited by catize -- 5/6/2009 8:25:11 PM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 19

RE: The competitive subbie - 5/6/2009 9:55:59 PM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Several years back, I was at a spanking group and a first-time young man, about to get spanked by a Domina, demanded to know what was the hardest spanking ever given before in the group.

Just a Fast Reply to the OP. This young man is described as a "First Time Young Man"--which implies that he was a newcomer at least to the group, if not to bdsm generally. Was he actually a submissive in any way? Did he have a D/S dynamic with someone present? Or was he just there to get his ass spanked?

There is a significant difference between a submissive and a bottom, although of course many people are both. Submissives often have an emotional need to please, serve, etc. that is focused on a dominant. But you do not have to have a submissive orientation to be a masochist and enjoy receiving a good hard beating. And many non-submissive masochists are entirely focused on themselves, their own sensations and limits. I see no reason that they couldn't be competitive as well, at least potentially.

There is a lot of evidence of competitive masochism in the historical record, especially among warrior elites in North, South and Central America. Many of the Plains cultures, the Maya, and the Aztecs were all inclined to demonstrate masculine prowess by self-inflicted pain, or rituals of enduring torture.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 20

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