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releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 1:02:57 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		im wondering how much of our ego we actually let go in the process of submission.

much of what we do we physically submit to, up to a point we submit our psyche and we forgo on decision making, prefferance and choice.

ive recently realised that whilst willingly doing all of the above, my ego has always remained with me.  i have never felt at any time that my ego was compromised even when humiliated it has been my ego, as a submissive and a slave that has identified with 'I' and 'me' and 'myself' as the one who gives.

is it about 'I' and 'me' and 'myself' or have i been misleading myself.
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RE: releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 1:54:36 PM   
tiinkerbell


Posts: 96
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quote:

is it about 'I' and 'me' and 'myself' or have i been misleading myself.


For myself, it's not only about I, me, and myself; it is also about him, he, himself, we, and us. I can't seperate them because while I go out of my way to makle it 'all about him', in the process, I am also making it about us, and about me.

I sure hope that made sense

Allison

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 2:08:29 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I've had to. It's more complicated that just *letting go of it*...........but there have been times when my pride has been sorely dented. My ego, overall, is intact. I don't *give* very much at all and think of myself first for the majority of the time. Not being submissive, and being owned, is bound to cause my ego some grief now and then.

agirl


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RE: releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 3:26:55 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		ok - i agree tiinkerbell that it is about giving to them before ourselves, though of course we wouldnt be here if we didnt want to be.

and yes agirl, our egos can be dented, but i dont really mean that.

is it our ego submitting, I am submissive, this is what I am, therefore I can and will submit to this.  or are we submitting our ego.  if we are submitting our ego then 'i' 'me' 'myself' is no longer relevant.  the 'i', 'me', 'myself' simply become terms of personal attachment.

'I' submit to Master becomes too important a statement therefore.

im not being clear i know, purely because i honestly dont understand this and im trying to get to grips with 'I' as a statement of personal importance when slave or submissive is what we are and submission is what we do.  and if that is what we are and do then 'I' submit to Master is more ego based and by dint of that suggests that our submission is ego based also.

so, are we submitting our ego or is our ego submitting.


< Message edited by lally2 -- 5/7/2009 3:32:34 PM >

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 4:07:45 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

so, are we submitting our ego or is our ego submitting.

Sure....go ahead and make me actually think....





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RE: releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 4:36:03 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		This is an interesting question that i would think the answer is based on which definition of ego one is using.

If you mean by ego, a feeling of self-importance and pride, then to me is means not seeing any command that the Dominant that i serve as beneath me or something that i'm too good to do. But i don't think that is what you are meaning (please correct me if i'm reading this incorrectly). i do know what i described can be an issue for a great many submissive.

If you mean by ego, your own self-image and consciousness of your own identity, i do know that some Dominants want their slaves to take on the identity, thoughts, feelings, views of their Masters, and i will leave the healthiness of such an action to others to debate. To me, this definition of ego, my self-identity, my self-image is how i know that i am submissive. Also the Dominant that i serve does not want me to become someone that i am not to serve Him. He values my separate opinions, knowledge, and identity.

If you mean by ego, the conscious mind, then i would have to say everything that i do comes from my conscious mind and that is not an ego i can release. i can release my ego as it regards to the other two definitions, but not to this one as it is my ego which makes me a choose actions that place Others ahead of myself.

While i do not do, because i'm not asked to do so, third-person speech, i do lower case and upper case to reinforce putting Others ahead of myself and the manner in which i identify the Dominant that i serve, i do so specifically to reinforce to myself that i don't hold claim on Him, i serve Him while He owns me. i don't know if that helped at all, as i'm not entirely clear which aspect of ego that you are talking about.

heartfelt

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 5:08:59 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
much of what we do we physically submit to, up to a point we submit our psyche and we forgo on decision making, prefferance and choice.


I dont' believe mine has forgone her decision making, preference and choice. I think she has expressed exactly those things. I think she continues to choose every time she obeys. I think, at night, when we are laying in bed together and I whisper "mine" into her ear and she breathes a little sigh and snuggles up against me more tightly, I'm pretty sure that's expressing a preference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2is it about 'I' and 'me' and 'myself' or have i been misleading myself.

Does it have to be either about the sub or the dom? To me and mine, it is about us -- a point which Mercnbeth really cemented in my head (*waves* thanks guys if you're reading). That is the goal to which we both bow down, each in our own ways. Why can't it be about you selflessly serving your master and at the same time taking pleasure in the fact that doing so feels good to you? Call me old school, but I think of such things as "win-win scenarios" and generally a good thing :)

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 5/7/2009 5:09:21 PM >

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 5:22:46 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm not interested in losing my ego, he wouldn't want it either. If I was egoless, I would be unable to consent as there would be no I to do the consenting. And he likes knowing that this isn't a decision I made once and now feel stuck in, but that everyday is just as fulfilling.

However like leadership and merc and beth, we are in a long term relationship and we think first of what the relationship needs to be healthy. He is as willing as I am to forego things for the health of the relationship.

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/7/2009 5:23:14 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I would perhaps suggest more the concept of 'submerging' one's ego.

If we can assume that a dynamic starts with a conscious effort to submit, then that to me would be the penultimate decision taken by the submissive or slave which sets up the authority transfer and enables the process of submission to take place. At this point you become aware that you have given over authority to a Dominant and from that point forward you become an instrument of their will and thus you submerge your ego to allow the ego of the Dominant to take over and decide for both of you.

However to my mind this would only perhaps hold true in a TPE type of dynamic where the Dominant exercises absolute authority and control over you, but as we all know from life and our own experiences this isn't always the case for there is some degree of delegation in certain situations where you may be afforded some leeway or freedom to make various choices to fulfill or meet expectations. Therefore perhaps not always is your ego fully submerged, it may be partially submerged, or it may even be merged with that of your Dominant.

This is how it appears to me anyway.

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/8/2009 7:08:21 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

much of what we do we physically submit to, up to a point we submit our psyche and we forgo on decision making, prefferance and choice.

Do 'we' really though? Think about it.

Everyone likes to argue that once you submit, you don't have to do it again because the first time is all that is needed. If you really think about though, every act of submission, every command that is followed; is done because 'we' choose to do so and because 'we' prefer to do so. It may not be a conscious act, but it is still of 'our' choosing and preference.

Having an ego is not a bad thing, even for a slave or a submissive. If you think long and hard about it, you would realize that something that LA has been saying for years is really true. Submission, at it's core, is a very selfish thing. Because we are 'taught' that to be submissive is to be selfless; we always think of this as a bad thing. But it's not.

Why does a person submit? Truly, why would a responsible, mature, adult make a conscious, informed, decision to submit their will to another?

Because it's all about THEM, at the basic level. Submitting fulfills a need in them. And without that need being fulfilled; a person will not submit.


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RE: releasing our ego - 5/8/2009 8:33:56 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

im wondering how much of our ego we actually let go in the process of submission.

I don't worry about or think much about my ego, it's easily influenced by the outside world. It's the id that worries me

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/8/2009 9:05:50 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

...im wondering how much of our ego we actually let go in the process of submission...


not everyone experiences the process of submission the same way.
 
some folks actually feel submissive, at certain times...or with certain folks.  some don't.
some folks have major conflicts and struggles with their ego, or their dominant "side", or with their submissive process.  some don't.

quote:

...is it about 'I' and 'me' and 'myself' or have i been misleading myself...


leadership527(*waves back* your welcome!!!) and DesFIP alluded to it being about the relationship...the sum of the parts...not either individual part...and that is our focus, as well.  We each have well-defined roles that were established in the beginning, according to His preferences.  Master has referred to Himself as a slave---to our relationship---on more than one occasion, but the control or authority, if you will, rests squarely on His shoulders.

and this slave...and her ego...is very much all good with that.

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/8/2009 2:27:19 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		hm! - i think youre all right and im just confusing myself with convoluted thoughts.

if i try looking at it this way:  that all of me belongs to my Master, even my ego.  therefore i submit all of that, even my ego.

my ego is no more or less important than any other part of me, it is just that last part of me that i hold onto as mine, me, myself. but as owned property nothing that is perceived to be mine is mine, it belongs to my Master.

doesnt tell me how to switch off my ego though. lol.  ah well.  and thanks guys, ive really enjoyed everyones perspective on this.  it all helps!  thank you.

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/8/2009 6:26:18 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have talked about it before that the relationship is an entity unto itself so as to not diminish the individuals involved, but to allow them to create something altogether new and with a kind of life of its own.  In this case, self ego remains, but there is also a unified ego of the couple.  The self ego of the submissive chooses to lay itself at the feet of the other individual and, more importantly, the relationship's ego.  If the dominant ego chooses not to nourish the submissive ego, eventually there is nothing left to give.  This can result in the death of the relationship because its identity becomes unstable and collapes or the submissive ego merges with the relationship ego to the point that there is no identity outside of it.  The dominant ego no longer is given anything because the relationship ego becomes a black hole for all his/her energies as it is now functioning as both its intended separate entity and as the identity of the submissive as well.

This is a rough sketch of how I have come to see relationship dynamics in general.  I see no problem with saying "This girl needs....."  The reason is it is saying that one party is (this girl) is looking out for the health of the relationship ego's health by asking the dominant ego for what she needs in order to continue to have something to offer to him, so that he does not become burdened with all the responsibility for keeping the relationship alive or making the painful decision of murdering the relationship ego.  I bet this doesn't make a bit of sense.  Sorry if I confused you further.

lovingpet   

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/8/2009 6:54:09 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		no, youre making perfect sense. thanks x

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/8/2009 6:56:26 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks!  I worry when I try to sound all super intelligent, cause really I'm just a few drumsticks short of a picnic! 

**steps slowly away from the three syllable words.....darn it, used another one... and again.....LOL*

lovingpet

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/8/2009 7:31:48 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Thanks!  I worry when I try to sound all super intelligent, cause really I'm just a few drumsticks short of a picnic! 

**steps slowly away from the three syllable words.....darn it, used another one... and again.....LOL*

lovingpet


blag it thats what i do! - i just go round in circles till im dizzy   whats wonderful is that people come to youre rescue.  bless them all and their cotton socks, i love this place. xxx

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/9/2009 1:50:44 AM   
housemouseinoz


Posts: 83
Joined: 2/3/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

im wondering how much of our ego we actually let go in the process of submission.

much of what we do we physically submit to, up to a point we submit our psyche and we forgo on decision making, prefferance and choice.

ive recently realised that whilst willingly doing all of the above, my ego has always remained with me.  i have never felt at any time that my ego was compromised even when humiliated it has been my ego, as a submissive and a slave that has identified with 'I' and 'me' and 'myself' as the one who gives.

is it about 'I' and 'me' and 'myself' or have i been misleading  .


Lally, phew after reading your OP and the replies, I thought to myself, gee that's not at all what I thought ego meant, so i've had to google it (just to be sure you know) <G> and I found a definition of what I perceive ego to mean to me :-

Definition: an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others

my Sir and I had a discussion about this very thing several weeks ago. He was talking about a previous relationship and how his then partner had a big ego. I sat and pondered what he said and tried to apply it to myself, using the definiton as i know it to be (as above), and concluded I Don't have an ego (well certainly not as is outlined above). Shit i've never felt like i'm more superior than someone else, and sure as hell wouldn't be thinking that way about Sir.........if i did (then I'm either in the wrong type of relationship, or I forgot my place and the reminder is going to hurt like hell)

This then led to a task for me to do <G> I had to read up on the meaning of Pride, Proud and also Ego and apply them to myself in whatever way I thought they applied to me, and give him my findings :-) and it was interesting:-)  I love the way He gets me to learn about myself, these are things I would not  normally contemplate learning about me.



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RE: releasing our ego - 5/9/2009 6:06:21 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		thanks housemouse -

i think i was writing in terms of the fact that we all do have an ego, we have to or we would be completely out of wack with ourselves.  the id and the ego balance us out, some people have more id than ego - and some more ego than id, few people are fully equalled out.  so that being said and the ego being the 'me' 'myself' stuff and the 'me' 'myself' stuff arguably being in conflict with our submissive temperment and nature, how that sat with people.

so far people seem cool with their ego - but i would suggest, prolly, cos theyre submissives and slaves and their ego really isnt the issue anyway cos they dont have massive ego's getting in the way of who they are.

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RE: releasing our ego - 5/9/2009 6:09:28 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		As with so many other things in life - it is a matter of balance.

I used to belong to a slave group and the general feeling was that slaves could not truly be helpful to their Masters because this implied power; that a slave could never be better at anything than their Master.  I totally disagree with both.  I am a naturally helpful person and I am very good at many things.  I would not think of myself as having any value to add to a relationship if it weren't for those traits.

Now, I could let that go to my head and have my ego swell, or I could simply turn those things over to my Master along with my body, mind and heart.  I was just at a four day conference where I chaired meetings, gave a tutorial, led and taught at a seminar session, and got people fired up about doing their jobs the best that they possibly could.  I got a lot of compliments and the President of the society publicly announced that he thought that the first Woman of Excellence award through this society should go to me. 

I had the choice of how to process this.  My choice was to fully realize that I did a more effective job because of the fulfillment I find in my Master/slave relationship and in realizing that it was always in my mind to make my Master proud.  Attending this meeting was not a task, and I was not directed to go there and show the world the difference my Master made in my life.  While I am pleased that I did my job well and that people were impressed, I know that I was there wearing a public collar and that any "glory" reflects directly on my Master even though no one there knows that I have one.  He has helped to shape me into who and what I am today.  I feel no shame in being proud of my hard work yet at the same time I know that I could not have done as well without his backing. 

I can't say that I have given away my ego.  What I can say is that I have learned not to let my ego ever diminish my service to him, make sure that I give him credit where credit is due even if it is only in my own mind, and know that what he expects of me is always to do my best whether it is for him directly or in any other endeavor.  It is definitely not a case of me going out and doing an excellent job for my work and then feeling like it means that I am no longer to treat him with as much respect or that I suddenly no longer need to do my tasks with the same gusto.  It's all about the balance.  Be proud of yourself for the things that you do well but never let that pride get in the way of serving to the best of your abilities.  Instead, let it spur you on to serve even better.


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