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RE: Could use some help. - 5/8/2009 6:05:23 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Personally I would get help for the paranoia first, and trust issues that cause paranoia, being depressed and getting down does not automatically mean she may be cheating. Second of all the power you have or don't have is negotiated between you and your sub. Don't count on the advice of others to make up your descions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sakone

Hello, my name is Kyle, and I am in need of help with a problem. I have seen my sub, getting down lately, and part of me thinks she may be cheating on me with her friends online. She has a problem telling me things, and a old friend of ours, told me to look at her IM's and Emails. Part of me has a problem with this as some old habits die hard, and some of my Dom friends told me that I had the right to do this. I think I am asking really if anyone here had problems like this, and how they delt with it, and if doing this is alright.

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 5/8/2009 6:09:58 PM >

(in reply to Sakone)

Post #: 21

RE: Could use some help. - 5/8/2009 6:07:24 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

He does if they have negotiated an open emails ims policy, but I doubt they have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

you have no right to do so...your Dom friends are wrong.

Communication is your answer. If she will not talk to you, perchance therein lies your answer.

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 22

RE: Could use some help. - 5/8/2009 6:33:33 PM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
... Coming here or going to friends for your answers suggest other problems. It says you don't communicate with the one involved before you fill your head with the wounds of others experiences. It means you don't trust her period, whether that is coming from you or her, its a problem that needs to be figured out...

Geeze, give the guy a break.

He's asking the right questions, and trying to think it through before he does something stupid.

Why not ask friends (or on here) for help in figuring out how to proceed?

It isn't fucking easy.

And - trust is something that has to be maintained.

You don't earn it once and then your done. Constant upkeep, checking in, etc. on the behalf of both parties.

That can include illucidation when making dildoes with pals, or whatever it was.

That's intimate enough - I'd want to know about it, preferably having it brought to my attention voluntarily and promptly. So I didn't have to hear about it from the rumor mill and then go on a fact finding mission.

_____________________________

...YOU KNOW HOW I LIKE MY PORK CHOPS!
- - - - - - -
"....(somewhere) therein lies the truthiness..."
~*~*~*~*
http://www.myspace.com/crocusofiron

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 23

RE: Could use some help. - 5/8/2009 6:38:43 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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You are right. Trust must be maintained. Communication with the one you have a relationships with will build trust. If you have a problem with someone, go to them... not the neighborhood. In my book, that's what adults do. Rather than worry, suspect, hear other's horror stories and build the whole mess up in your head...yeah... I say.. talk to your partner. So sue me if I am too tough.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Jeptha)

Post #: 24

RE: Could use some help. - 5/8/2009 6:53:16 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Interesdom

Whether sharing e-mail accounts, or you having access to hers, is right or not is down to the relationship between the two of you. If she were slave, then for me there is no doubt that you would have access to her e-mail, along with every other part of her. If she is not slave, then her specific consent should be sought. If she won't give that consent, it either tells you that she does not feel the relationship to be that close, or she wishes to hide something; either way, you have learnt. (How would you feel if she asked to see all of your communications - including this thread?)

Now I'm going to hand out some fairly standard relationship advice on suspected cheating (including lying about doing so) and privacy. I will try to relate it to a D/s relationship without presuming too much of your own dynamic, though I am presuming you have no children and are not too settled.

There are two possibilities when you suspect someone of cheating. 1) they are cheating and are dishonest; 2) they are not cheating and are honest. If you choose to 'snoop' then you should do so completely and thoroughly until your mind is completely convinced one way or the other. After snooping one of two statements about yourself will become true: 1) you have uncovered the cheating and lies and been justified in having to be underhand about it; 2) you have been paranoid, you have invaded privacy, you have been deceitful and distrusting.

In the first case, the relationship is almost certainly dead - there is very little chance of recovery from this and many would say you would be foolish to try it (as a dom, I'd say extremely foolish to try). In the second instance you can beg forgiveness but you will have to really appreciate that it is you who is in the wrong and must do what you can to improve your level of trust and make amends for your deceitfulness (as a dom, I'd say it's almost impossible to recover your position properly).

As you see, you are betweeen a rock and a hard place. Even without snooping, it boils down to either you believe you have inspired her trust or you don't. If you don't believe it, let her go because your relationship is going nowhere.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Interesdom)

Post #: 25

RE: Could use some help. - 5/8/2009 7:22:24 PM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

You are right. Trust must be maintained. Communication with the one you have a relationships with will build trust. If you have a problem with someone, go to them... not the neighborhood. In my book, that's what adults do. Rather than worry, suspect, hear other's horror stories and build the whole mess up in your head...yeah... I say.. talk to your partner. So sue me if I am too tough.

I agree with you for the most part, but I still feel like your shitting on the guy just for asking a question.
I think it's good if he pops the question here or where-ever else first if it helps him think it through.
We're humans, we worry about stuff sometimes. Sometimes dumb stuff. Sometimes not so dumb stuff.
Sometimes we get some shitty advice. Sometimes some good.
It can be confusing.
Sounds like your replaying some stuff which still has some emotional kick from your own past in regard to his question.

_____________________________

...YOU KNOW HOW I LIKE MY PORK CHOPS!
- - - - - - -
"....(somewhere) therein lies the truthiness..."
~*~*~*~*
http://www.myspace.com/crocusofiron

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 26

RE: Could use some help. - 5/8/2009 7:41:01 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Jeptha I can understand what you are saying and I typically don't go so strong on someone asking advice when it comes to going straight to your partner. But in this situation the guy has talked to a lot of people... and then us. There are too many things I am seeing that suggest there is a communication problem, jealousy, lack of trust and it is all going both ways from the words of the op. It is time to take all the middle guys out and get with one another, get real and talk it out. But with all the input from the guys... and his own fears, that talk could be a major thing.

From years of dealing with people in crisis, you start seeing lil signs and there are a number of them here.

When someone is depressed the last thing they need is a jealous, worried person wanting answers. I am not saying she is or isn't cheating. I have no way to know. I did not hear the op say that his friends advised him that maybe she might need some support right now and how to take care of things from there. No... we hear them saying things that enable his now very built up fears. And now every little sign convicts her more in his emotional state. Justifying looking at her email or IM's or whatever isn't going to help. Communication, honesty and love will.

He says he knows when she is lying because she can't do it so well... so she has lied. There is a lot going on here and the only thing that will save them is communication and not with everybody and their brother. Just my take on it.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Jeptha)

Post #: 27

RE: Could use some help. - 5/8/2009 10:16:28 PM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

I just remember when I was young, it really took me a while to figure out what to say, and how to say it.

It seems easier and more obvious now that I'm older and wiser (*koff!*), but back then, it was like I was raised by wolves or something.

Took a long time for me to get comfy with that level of communication ~ way longer than it should have, really.

And; not that I'm a super-pro at it now, exactly, either.

So you see, I sort of transposed my own experience onto it, and if the guy is coming from someplace similar to that, I can relate to that.

- - - - -

Edit to add a rant that might be neither here nor there, and to no-one in particular: I hate it when people say "don't you trust me?" as a tactic to stall conversation or to end it altogether.

Yeah, sure you trust somebody - to tell you the truth and communicate clearly.
That's all you can really ask for.
To expect more than that?
I'm not sure it's realistic.

You trust them to be human.
But what does that mean?
It's a lot of wonderful things, but perfection it ain't.

So, does asking make you an insecure fuck-up who can't trust?
Maybe, but so what?
As long as you're honest and handling it without recourse to histrionics or guilt trips or other lame strategies.
We're all human, and it's part of the package.
Ecco Fuck-up.

As Lockit's sig line says; "life ain't always beautiful, but it's a beautiful ride..."

< Message edited by Jeptha -- 5/8/2009 11:10:12 PM >

_____________________________

...YOU KNOW HOW I LIKE MY PORK CHOPS!
- - - - - - -
"....(somewhere) therein lies the truthiness..."
~*~*~*~*
http://www.myspace.com/crocusofiron

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 28

RE: Could use some help. - 5/9/2009 7:36:59 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

some of my Dom friends told me that I had the right to do this

It is a violation of law (Postal Code) to do this, you've got massively badly informed "friends". Only with consent of the other person can you access their mail and other private information. But, if you do not trust her, you might as well call it a day, as that is rarely repairable, and not a basis for any kind of relationship. Apart from which, what the heck is "cheating online"? What is your claim on her she can't talk to other people?

(in reply to Sakone)

Post #: 29

RE: Could use some help. - 5/10/2009 10:36:29 AM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

I have another thought about trust that I want to tack on here.

And that is; it's one thing if you're living a life like my grandparents.

Probably not a lot of issues arise there on a day to day basis.

But if you live a more independent lifestyle; unmarried, not living together, with your own lives apart from each other as well as your life together, maybe even kink circles of friends apart from each other. Or even polyamory , maybe. (damn kids.)

Making assumptions can work in the short term, but checking in more often is probably in order in a more independent type of relationship.

And, point #2; a lot can depend on your past.

I have friends who have been badly burned in relationships.

They need a lot of communication and assurance.

Or ~ you may have grown up in a fairly chaotic environment, where people were not necessarily that dependable ...or even predictable.

That can give you a world view where human nature - even if *basically* good - still is far from set in stone.

_____________________________

...YOU KNOW HOW I LIKE MY PORK CHOPS!
- - - - - - -
"....(somewhere) therein lies the truthiness..."
~*~*~*~*
http://www.myspace.com/crocusofiron

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 30

RE: Could use some help. - 5/10/2009 12:09:53 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Just thought I'd toss in a comment about paranoia. many of the young have paranoia and sometimes several ones at the same time. It doesn't mean your in dire need of a shrink although a good kink friendly counsellor can help you through difficult issues. As we develop and grow up, we go through stages of uncertainty in many areas which is often referred to as paranoia (especially if the problem gets a tad too large and impacts on others). Most people grow out of them as they gain both experience and confidence about who, what and where they are. new relationships can have the same effect on some people, even old farts, especially if the partner starts acting differently. Sheesh the first thing many blokes ask themselves is "What the F**K did I do wrong?" and I am told the ladies go through this too. Often, once communications have been better established and if the bloke is smart, he also gets to know her cycle of moods, what triggers them and her body language so he has some clue, things can work out themselves ... Some people just love to latch onto the catchword Paranoia and toss it about like a plesebo and figure that is there all there is to it. Interestingly enough I know several psychiatrists and more than a few fellow Psychologists who believe that it is healthy to have a pet partanoia or two as it helps you keep healthy and stay alive.

BTW If there are typos then screw them I'm on 18 hours without sleep and an old fart is entitled to make a few now and then.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Jeptha)

Post #: 31

RE: Could use some help. - 5/10/2009 1:49:44 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~
Instead of looking at her e-mail without her permission, since that is against the law, how about this: First try talking with her. If that doesn't seem to work out, without givng her warning ahead of time so she has no time to delete anything, when Y/you both have a sufficient block of time together ask her to show You her e-mail account(s). If she will show You on the spot, she probably has nothing to hide. Then look at it to be sure, including the Sent and Trash folders also...every single folder in there. i had Someone ask me that once, just to "test my submission" He said . i said "Sure" and opened it all up for Him, no problem. i had nothing to hide and i absolutely loved proving it.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 32

RE: Could use some help. - 5/10/2009 2:01:26 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

By the time it comes to the point of you reading her emails and checking her chats and texts there is already no trust in the relationship. Whether she did any of these things you are accusing her of or didn't is a moot point. She can't prove herself innocent because you never will believe her in the future.

You're jealous of her past partners and that by itself spells the death note for the relationship. How is she supposed to now never have cammed with someone before she met you? She can't. And because she did do this, you interpret everything she says as lying and deceitful.

Learn how to accept that just as you have had past relationships, so have your present partners. Because until you do this, every future relationship will be poisoned too.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to GeekFreak)

Post #: 33

RE: Could use some help. - 5/10/2009 5:13:27 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sakone

Hello, my name is Kyle, and I am in need of help with a problem. I have seen my sub, getting down lately, and part of me thinks she may be cheating on me with her friends online. She has a problem telling me things, and a old friend of ours, told me to look at her IM's and Emails. Part of me has a problem with this as some old habits die hard, and some of my Dom friends told me that I had the right to do this. I think I am asking really if anyone here had problems like this, and how they delt with it, and if doing this is alright.

I'm not a great believer in 'rights' in relationships. I'd weigh up what's in my interests and go from there. Personally, I wouldn't read her e-mails; I would rather end the relationship than do that as I'd feel she'd taken control were I to resort to prying. I don't think you have the 'right', but you certainly have the choice, though understand the potential consequences before rushing in.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Sakone)

Post #: 34

RE: Could use some help. - 5/10/2009 5:50:20 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sakone
Hello, my name is Kyle, and I am in need of help with a problem. I have seen my sub, getting down lately, and part of me thinks she may be cheating on me with her friends online. She has a problem telling me things, and a old friend of ours, told me to look at her IM's and Emails. Part of me has a problem with this as some old habits die hard, and some of my Dom friends told me that I had the right to do this. I think I am asking really if anyone here had problems like this, and how they delt with it, and if doing this is alright.

Heh, people talk about what "rights" the master or sub/slave has all the time. For the most part, I find it a red herring. Look, who cares whether you have the right or not? What matters is what will happen when you do it. As the dominant, you are on the hook for the outcome of your actions and hers. So I wouldn't so much be asking myself if I had the right to read Carol's email as is reading her email likely to make the situatino better or worse?.

If you want my opinion, the right move here is to have a little discussion about honesty. THAT is the underlying problem here, not the online doms. If that conversation didn't go to my liking, I'd be out of the relationship. I certainly wouldn't place my collar on anyone's neck that I didn't trust implicitly.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Sakone)

Post #: 35

RE: Could use some help. - 5/11/2009 9:43:16 AM

Sakone

Posts: 41
Joined: 9/3/2007
From: Queensbury
Status: offline

As I stated before hand that I would talk to her. Which is what I did, and even shown her this topic. As far as I care this is now behind us however, Lockit by many people do you mean two is a lot? I myself don't think so. Jeptha thanks all your info was all useful, as well as a few others.(On a side note she wants to thank you) My great grandfather once told me this "Paranoia and jealousy go hand and hand. One who says they never feel it, then I can show you someone that lies." He thought the people who lie, or lie to themselves go to hell so if for some reason you all get mad about the lieing thing thought I would clear it up. I also know it is agaisnt the law to check US postal mail, I know for I had someone thrown in jail for it. Another note, can't just throw things off to the side, talking does help a lot of the time, she herself did show me everything as well. I am thankful that she did and did rest my mind. Also on another note this is the first time I had these feelings, which is odd to me really which is why I ASKED before doing anything. It's hard to control things under stress due to money, and I am working on that as well. And for the Shrink that is friendly with Kinks can't find one in my area but have to go to vermont instead. Thanks all for the advise and at least I didn't listen to friends. Things are fine, and she trusts me more now since I didn't look into things and thanks me for it. I trust her as well and all that. As for me I am going to bed, just got done working a triple shift.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 36

RE: Could use some help. - 5/12/2009 8:52:50 AM

Interesdom

Posts: 197
Joined: 5/24/2004
From: England
Status: offline

Thank you for letting us know how things turned out, Sakone, and I am glad that things are clearing up.

Best wishes to you both.

_____________________________

I always proofread carefully to make sure I don't any words out.

(in reply to Sakone)

Post #: 37

RE: Could use some help. - 5/13/2009 1:35:02 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Sleep deprivation could be causing the paranoia.

One caveat though, if you plan to read her mail on a regular basis, she needs to start telling her family, friends, boss, coworkers etc that their private concerns will not be kept private. Because if her sister tells her about the result of a medical test, but doesn't want the news spread, then it's an invasion of the sister's privacy for you to read the mail.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Interesdom)

Post #: 38

RE: Could use some help. - 5/15/2009 10:14:57 AM

Sakone

Posts: 41
Joined: 9/3/2007
From: Queensbury
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Sleep deprivation could be causing the paranoia.

One caveat though, if you plan to read her mail on a regular basis, she needs to start telling her family, friends, boss, coworkers etc that their private concerns will not be kept private. Because if her sister tells her about the result of a medical test, but doesn't want the news spread, then it's an invasion of the sister's privacy for you to read the mail.

Understandable and on another note, I don't read it any longer. Now that I am getting the sleep I need i'm better. We are going to munches now once a month, and still trying to find a kink friendly psych which is harder then I thought in my area.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 39

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