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Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/4/2006 11:48:15 PM

FangsNfeet

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A guy to the ER due to an accident. There can be brusing, cutting, whatever. In most cases, it's assumed the guy just had an accident.

A woman or child goes to an ER due to an accident showing the same conditions. But it's automaticly thought to be abuse regardless of the story that there was a fall, accidental bump into a corner when looking the other way, or something falling off the shelf onto there head.

This is something I noticed when I use to work as an EMT. Why is it that so many automaticlly jump to the conclusion of abuse?

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/5/2006 4:26:48 AM

ShiftedJewel

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Because, no matter how open minded society claims to be, they still assume that a man is the abuser and not the abused. Then you toss in the "knight in shining armor" attitude that says they have to protect us helpless females and short people... all the false accusations only make it hard on the people that truly are being abused. My youngest "unmentionable" male suffered from the "no fear" syndrome... in other words, if he thought he could do he would sure as hell try it... needless to say he was constantly covered in bruised, cuts and scrapes. The only saving grace was that my ex knew how he was and never "assumed" the short one was abused.

Jewel

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 8:10:09 AM

RiotGirl

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i dunno but its disgusting. i actually had an ex once that was abused by his ex girlfriend.

Prolly also because most abuse goes unreported. Mosted of the abused tend to be rather silent about it. Either out of fear or love.. they dont speak. So the hospitals have to actually "spot" them as they wont help themselves.

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 8:14:54 AM

IrishMist

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Much as Miss Jewel said, society sees men as the abusers, and women and children as needing to be protected. And as Riot said, it's sad because there are just as many abused men as there are women and children.

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 10:20:48 AM

LaMalinche

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Likely for the same reasons that men are waaayyyy more likely to be refered to a specialist for heart disease than women. There is a belief that women will not die from heart disease, even when they have then SAME symptoms as men.

Another factor is the way men and women's explanations are viewed. If a person goes into an emergancy room - say to have a finger splinted (why they did not go to their PCP I don't know - this is just an exampe), and they are male, and bruises are noticed on his arm, likely nothing will be said - it will be assumed that it was some "manly" thing he was doing. If the individual is a woman, it will be assumed that the hurt finger is an extension of what/who was causing the bruises. In both cases, the same activities had been happening - each was moving - in lifting boxes/furniture/whatever - bruises were gotten on the arms the first day - on the second day, the finger was slammed in something and broke. Both are asked what happened - both tell the same story - it is then assumed the woman might be "hiding" something, because surely SHE wouldn't have been moving such heavy items. On the other hand, his is accepted because it is another story of "manly" men, doing "manly" things, in "manly" ways. (Think "Tim the Toolman")

Also, I think that there are some cultural upbringing issues. Men are taught to shurg off pain, and are less likely to go to their Doctors for preventative medicine, while women are expected to need immediate assistance.

There are a lot of social, cultural, economic, and spiritual reasons.

For example, the famous figure that 1 in 3 women will in there lifetime be a victim of rape or attempted rape. The actual figure is more like 1 in 8, but women's advocates know that very few are callous enough to publically dispute the 1 in 3 claim. So why do they fudge the figures? Because a little creative lying can draw attention, indignation, and perhaps more important, money and political capital to address the problem. (Freakonomics, Levitt, 92)

So in essence, we have been trained to believe that women coming into an emergancy room have been abused - through cultural conditioning that men are abusive and that women are victims, and through advocacy hype of the number of cases of abuse along with the figures of "hidden abuse" (if it is hidden - how do we know it is there).

Hope that made some sense, I know that it was very disjointed).

Any reason that this question came to mind?

Best

LaMalinche

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 10:27:51 AM

fastlane

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Fastlane is doing the math....1 in 3...to 1 in 8....which means 2/3rds of what we think is abuse is not and the other 1/3rd probably should be.....Dayum...where's my cane?

Peace, Kevin

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 10:47:48 AM

windy135

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I guess because the majority of abuse is male abusing women. Does it make judging the sexes different, right?t, no not at all. Do women abuse men, well sure. Damn lifetime shoes have warped my brain I guess :). good post

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 11:12:05 AM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i dunno but its disgusting. i actually had an ex once that was abused by his ex girlfriend.

Prolly also because most abuse goes unreported. Mosted of the abused tend to be rather silent about it. Either out of fear or love.. they dont speak. So the hospitals have to actually "spot" them as they wont help themselves.

It used to be that the feminists at the ER jumped to that conclusion but these days even the police automatically assumer ther a wife was beaten in spousal abuse where as a guy is assumed either he had an accidsent or someoe beat the shit out of him and if that is believed to be done by a group of juveniles its just stiff shit 'cause they aren't allowed to touch juvies. Let a male report (as a mate once did) spousal abuse when his wife beat him almost sensless and broke his arm in two places with a lenth of 2x4 timber, and listen to the cops laught themselves silly and the hospital write it up as either an accident or a mugging.

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 11:23:52 AM

LaMalinche

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i dunno but its disgusting. i actually had an ex once that was abused by his ex girlfriend.

Prolly also because most abuse goes unreported. Mosted of the abused tend to be rather silent about it. Either out of fear or love.. they dont speak. So the hospitals have to actually "spot" them as they wont help themselves.

It used to be that the feminists at the ER jumped to that conclusion but these days even the police automatically assumer ther a wife was beaten in spousal abuse where as a guy is assumed either he had an accidsent or someoe beat the shit out of him and if that is believed to be done by a group of juveniles its just stiff shit 'cause they aren't allowed to touch juvies. Let a male report (as a mate once did) spousal abuse when his wife beat him almost sensless and broke his arm in two places with a lenth of 2x4 timber, and listen to the cops laught themselves silly and the hospital write it up as either an accident or a mugging.

In the area I live in, the cops are most likely to arrest both parties, unless they are lesbians, and then they get ignored. Go figure.

Best,

LaMalinche

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 9

RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 12:52:44 PM

fastlane

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lesbian/cop scene.....I likey!!!!!!

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 2:00:00 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
And as Riot said, it's sad because there are just as many abused men as there are women and children.

Do you have any statistics to support this statement?

You might want to read the link below, from the U.S. Department of Justice, before making remarks like this.
http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/nij/197019.pdf

(in reply to IrishMist)

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 2:18:58 PM

Arpig

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Caitlyn, just a quick thought/comment as i am reading that report
regarding the measuring of victimization....

quote:

Physical victimization was assessed using Straus’ (1979) Conflict Tactics Scales, which measures self-reported experiences of such behaviors as being hit, shoved, or pushed.

I wonder if there is anybody who has reached the age of 10 without having been repeatedly victimized by this measure.

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 3:13:19 PM

NakedOnMyChain

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From: Indiana
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quote:

This is something I noticed when I use to work as an EMT. Why is it that so many automaticlly jump to the conclusion of abuse?

I think a lot of it depends on where the bruises are, what pattern they're in and in what volume.

I can see how people would assume this, but I've seen the needle swing both ways. I've known some abusive men and women in my time.

On the opposite side of the coin, so many people automatically assume that a woman is controlling, catty and manipulative if they hear her raise her voice to her s/o. Or they assume she's "unladylike". Maybe he just screwed her best friend. Who knows? Ok, that was a stupid point, but you get what I mean. Everyone makes incorrect assumptions at some point. It's sad, but true. As a solution I present the option of not caring what strangers think (within reason), and keeping your assumptions to yourself where warranted. It works for me.

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 3:23:12 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
I wonder if there is anybody who has reached the age of 10 without having been repeatedly victimized by this measure.

All the more reason to work towards the day when they can ...

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Post #: 14

RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 7:19:38 PM

Tristan

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Check out these statistics...

quote:

How many know that the same research which is used to say that a woman is severely assaulted by her husband/boyfriend every 15 second in this country, also indicated that a man is severely assaulted by his wife/girlfriend every 14.6 seconds.
(Straus, M. A., 1977)

http://www.safe4all.org/essays/2page.html

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 8:01:12 PM

shigglyboom

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quote:

How many know that the same research which is used to say that a woman is severely assaulted by her husband/boyfriend every 15 second in this country, also indicated that a man is severely assaulted by his wife/girlfriend every 14.6 seconds.
(Straus, M. A., 1977)

Here's a response to that statistic by one of Straus' coauthors:
"This factoid [that women are as violent as men, and women initiate violence as often as do men] cites research by Murray Straus, Suzanne Steinmetz, and Richard Gelles, as well as a host of other self-report surveys. Those using this factoid tend to conveniently leave out the fact that Straus and his colleague's surveys as well as data collected from the National Crime Victimization Survey (Bureau of Justice Statistics) consistently find that no matter what the rate of violence or who initiates the violence, women are 7 to 10 times more likely to be injured in acts of intimate violence than are men."

That and many other mythbusters on this page: http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/factoid/factoid.html

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 8:14:38 PM

shigglyboom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaMalinche

So why do they fudge the figures? Because a little creative lying can draw attention, indignation, and perhaps more important, money and political capital to address the problem. (Freakonomics, Levitt, 92)

My guess would be, some initial piece of research got widely quoted and distributed, and then was contraindicated or disproven by a subsequent, less widely known study. Today's domestic violence activists probably learned their trade using the original materials and lack time or resources to keep up with new studies. (Think, who's got the time to read and analyze? Academics, not shelter workers.) Leavitt's an economist, his numbers are fascinating but he can only guess at the reasons behind them like the rest of us and if he's accusing people of intentionally exaggerating numbers, I think he's wrong. Where's the need? 1 in 8 is egregious enough.

(in reply to LaMalinche)

Post #: 17

RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/6/2006 8:31:54 PM

caitlyn

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Thank you for the link Tristan.

Those that follow this issue are well aware that there are legions of college professors that are willing to offer opinions supposedly based on facts ... that always directly contradicts what is presented by the U.S. Department of Justice.

They make a case using police reports, which is highly problematic.

If there is an accusation, there will be a police report. Accusations become statistically irrelevant for two reasons, a) anyone can accuse anyone else, of virtually anything, b) the standard legal ploy in this sort of case is for the accused to accuse the accuser, which has a tendency to balance the accusations.

The biggest problem I have with Riot's and Irish's statement, is as it applies to victimized children.

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/7/2006 4:26:45 AM

candystripper

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MD's and RN's and other licensees now have legal obligations to report abuse, so perhaps they "over-ask" to protect themselves from liability.

i laughed when i read the Op title; the only truely gender-based "accident" is pregnancy.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 2/7/2006 4:27:53 AM >

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RE: Society thoughts on Gender and accidents - 2/7/2006 8:49:05 AM

LaMalinche

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

i laughed when i read the Op title; the only truely gender-based "accident" is pregnancy.

candystripper

Now that I have cleaned the spewed Diet Coke up. . .

Candy, that was funny. I now have going through my head, "I just don't know HOW I got pregnant."

Although zipping one's dangling participles up in one's pants would be another "gender-based" accident.

Best,

LaMalinche

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Post #: 20

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