Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (Full Version)

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Shylahgirl -> Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 9:10:15 AM)

It's seems like every website and every group or message board as at least one post asking "Can there be love in a M/s or D/s relationship?" or "Can a Master love his slave?" or something to that effect.

Is it that unusual to love the person that you serve?

I mean really... you are, at least for 24/7 D/s or M/s, in close contact with the Master, you open your self up to your Master, He knows all you dark secrets... normally you plan on living with this person for an extended period of time... is it that strange that love would form between the two or more people involved... that's saying if there wasn't love before the M/s relationship started.

I lived 24/7 with my former Master for over 2 years... I freely admit that there was and is still a very strong love between us.

I serve Daddy 24/7... we are very much in love and it's, at least for me, a deep love that includes romantic and respectful love.

The Master's in my local community, all freely admit that they have a deep love for their slaves, even after the slave no longer serves them.

Where did this question of love not being an option or a given come from?

It's obvious,to me, that if you have a honest, sexual, and long term relationship with anyone, there will be romantic love or deeper.

Think of all we tell our Master/Daddy/Doms or what ever they want to be called. Think of the emotional intimacy that we have when we serve and truly give our selves to them. How could there not be love?

Shylah



DesFIP -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 9:12:43 AM)

Many of us are in 24/7 relationships including love. Some people are in 24/7 that don't include it. Some people don't live together but are still in love. Some people don't live together and aren't in love. Plus there are the houses which are strictly structured and do not include love, servants come and go and at no time is there any pretense of a romantic relationship.



SmokingGun82 -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 9:15:11 AM)

Love can be a component, but I wouldn't say it has to be. There was a girl this winter that I had a relationship with, highly D/s, which had no love involved at all. Sure, I didn't dislike her and she didn't dislike me, and we had a good time together in and out of the bedroom, but there most definitely was not love. It doesn't diminish the fun, in my experience/opinion, at least.

As for why someone might ask the question... most likely, people looking to validate their own feelings.



VelvetCruelty -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 9:19:22 AM)

I do not believe the postings are so much about whether or not the slave loves the dominant as they are about the dominant loving the slave. 

There are some dominants who truly see the slave as property, as nothing more than a posession like a car or a couch or a tv.  They don't really see how they can 'love' the slave, when, you know, it's just a slave.  A lot of them feel that the joy of serving them should be all the emotional reward a slave needs.  To each his own......

There are just as many dominants that have loving and romantic relationships with their slaves.

I personally do not believe there can be a greater bond between two adults than a BDSM type of relationship, and have loved all of my slaves in one way or another.

Unfortunately, love isn't everything and the search continues! [:D]



lally2 -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 10:31:53 AM)

... and then i think theres everything in between.  the relationships based on trust, loyalty where affection is genuine and if that borders on love, it may not be actually said so in so many words, but the feelings are no less valid and strong.

'love' happens in those moments when everything feels right and happy and nothing else seems to exist beyond that moment.

love as a perpetual state is a little like saying being happy is a perpetual state - actually it isnt.  love ebbs and flows like every other emotion just we make the assumption that its supposed to keep a regular heart beat.  in amongst love is passion, calm, companionship, tenderness, distraction even hate in some cases, anger, frustration, pride, and so on.....

basically every single emotion we all feel at certain times towards the ones we care about.

well, thats my take on love anyway - and i love love, dont get me wrong, its a wonderful emotion, but it is one aspect of many other parts of how we feel and interract with each other.




IrishMist -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 10:41:28 AM)

quote:

It's obvious,to me, that if you have a honest, sexual, and long term relationship with anyone, there will be romantic love or deeper.

You are making the assumption that EVERYONE will be as emotionally invested as you get in your relationships. That is just not true.

Some people want and need the so called 'romantic' love that you refer to.
Some people don't want/need it; what's more, some people go out of their way to avoid it.

That's ok though. It's what makes each individual happy that counts.

quote:

Think of all we tell our Master/Daddy/Doms or what ever they want to be called. Think of the emotional intimacy that we have when we serve and truly give our selves to them. How could there not be love?

Emotional intimacy does not equal love.

You can be intimate with anyone on a physical, mental and emotional level and still not feel what most refer to as 'love'.
What's more
You can 'love' someone and not have the emotional intimacy that you are referring to.

They do not go hand in hand.



KatyLied -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 10:51:29 AM)

quote:

It's obvious,to me, that if you have a honest, sexual, and long term relationship with anyone, there will be romantic love or deeper.


Oh, that just is not true.  And for many people not realistic.  Perhaps it's all in how you define "romantic love or deeper."  I can have deep, intense relationships without "romantic love or deeper."  But actually they are deep in the areas that count to me:  physical attraction, intense communication, having buttons pushed.



YoungBlondeSlave -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 11:14:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

It's seems like every website and every group or message board as at least one post asking "Can there be love in a M/s or D/s relationship?" or "Can a Master love his slave?" or something to that effect.

Is it that unusual to love the person that you serve?

I mean really... you are, at least for 24/7 D/s or M/s, in close contact with the Master, you open your self up to your Master, He knows all you dark secrets... normally you plan on living with this person for an extended period of time... is it that strange that love would form between the two or more people involved... that's saying if there wasn't love before the M/s relationship started.

Where did this question of love not being an option or a given come from?
....
It's obvious,to me, that if you have a honest, sexual, and long term relationship with anyone, there will be romantic love or deeper.

Shylah


The beauty of the D/s lifestyle, i think, is that there are so many different varieties of relationships and that in time we can (ideally) find a suitable counterpart for our needs. And, for many of us (subs/slaves) that is a need to be loved, cherished and protected. In return, we give everything of ourselves to our Owners. But, that is not the case for everyone. i've met and heard of many subs and slaves who wanted to be treated simply as a piece of property, furniture or whatever else you may want to call it. It's not unusual to love the one you serve, or to love the one who serves you. But, it all depends on the type of relationship you are involved in. Maybe having love involved works for some people, for others, it doesn't.

me, personally, i have always had a ldegree of love for whoever i was with. Whether it just be friendship or being collared. i loved them. Some, i still do. And, they love me. i know this because i was told. You say "it's obvious, to me, that if you have an honest, sexual and long-term relationship with anyone there will be a romantic love or deeper." i've got two fuck buddies that i've had since 2007. And, that is the precise relationship that we have. Now do i love them? Yes, the way that i love my friends. Am i in love with them? No.

i'm just guessing that you're asking about being in love with your Master. i don't know if i have ever been "in love" with anyone that i've been involved with in this lifestyle. But, since i know that's something that's a *must have* for me i won't settle for someone who wants to have his slave live in a cage when he's not playing with her. Because i know that won't work for me, especially since i'm a very open and loving individual i need to have that in return. Who knows, hopefully it will happen someday...maybe. *crosses fingers*




lally2 -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 12:20:59 PM)

me, personally, i have always had a ldegree of love for whoever i was with. Whether it just be friendship or being collared. i loved them. Some, i still do. And, they love me. i know this because i was told. You say "it's obvious, to me, that if you have an honest, sexual and long-term relationship with anyone there will be a romantic love or deeper." i've got two fuck buddies that i've had since 2007. And, that is the precise relationship that we have. Now do i love them? Yes, the way that i love my friends. Am i in love with them? No. (YBS)

this is how i tend to operate.  love as i described it above is all about embracing the people youre with, with the emotions at youre disposal.  some are more emotional than others and giving out emotionally is how they express who they are.

others not so much.  but im still of the opinion that even if youre not a person who goes around with youre heart on youre sleeve the whole time, declaring undying love to youre nearest and dearest, youre still able to feel the full range of feelings that is part of a relationship that means something to you.  its just that the word love conjures up something more meaningful than the sum of its parts.

the polarity of this of course are the people who see their slaves as property and nothing more.  i couldnt function very well in such a sterile environment, but some do.



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 12:59:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

... and then i think theres everything in between.  the relationships based on trust, loyalty where affection is genuine and if that borders on love, it may not be actually said so in so many words, but the feelings are no less valid and strong.

'love' happens in those moments when everything feels right and happy and nothing else seems to exist beyond that moment.

love as a perpetual state is a little like saying being happy is a perpetual state - actually it isnt.  love ebbs and flows like every other emotion just we make the assumption that its supposed to keep a regular heart beat.  in amongst love is passion, calm, companionship, tenderness, distraction even hate in some cases, anger, frustration, pride, and so on.....

basically every single emotion we all feel at certain times towards the ones we care about.

well, thats my take on love anyway - and i love love, dont get me wrong, its a wonderful emotion, but it is one aspect of many other parts of how we feel and interract with each other.



i think a lot the same.  But i also think that W/we can love and/or be in love and feel these different emotions & feelings at the same time.  i, for one, am hoping for a D/s relationship somewhere down the line that includes love.  i need that to be happy in a relationship.



califsue -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 2:00:13 PM)

IrishMist and lally2 have pretty much captured my feelings on this subject.
 
I think there are many ways to love and connect with someone and I don't have to be 'in love' to
be with them. Just because I care for someone does not mean I don't love for them, I just don't
consider it being 'in love'. I love and care for them in the way I know and define love for myself
and in return they care for, protect and love me in the manner they are able to at that 
moment in time. 
 
 



darklight17 -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 2:13:37 PM)

I posted something about love and bdsm awhile ago. It was a redundant thread, but hey- it's definitely a reality and possibility. If I recall from what I posted, most people, on the forums at least, are more decent than person I was married to! Just remember love can fizzle, but sheer animosity can last forever.



missturbation -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 6:38:58 PM)

quote:

Where did this question of love not being an option or a given come from?

I've never seen anyone say it's not an option but i have heard them say it's not an option for THEM. It's definately not a given, i am not in love, do not love my Sir.

quote:

It's obvious,to me, that if you have a honest, sexual, and long term relationship with anyone, there will be romantic love or deeper.

Not for this slave. There is nothing romantic about my slavery and there certainly is no love. Something deeper, well for me possibly but it has nothing to do with love or romance - blargh.

quote:

Think of all we tell our Master/Daddy/Doms or what ever they want to be called. Think of the emotional intimacy that we have when we serve and truly give our selves to them. How could there not be love?

Actually i don't tell my Sir anything that i wouldn't tell anyone else, i'm too much of an open book for that. Emotional intimacy when we serve, not for me. In fact the concept baffles me.
The reason there is no love is because i choose for there not to be love. Mind i've chosen it to be that way for so long i'm not sure i could love if i wanted to, emotionally stunted thats what some call me. I prefer to use the term emtionally challenged.
Anyhoo i digress, the most a sir can expect of me is loyalty, devotion, respect and for me to like them enough to want to be around them.

Edited to add :-
Luckily i am property, nothing more nothing less. Don't get me wrong he cares and looks after his property, enjoys it but love, i'd be shocked if he declared it lol.



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 8:15:52 PM)

you can be more then just kink fest   why not love it is the strongest of bonds be sides hate   only reason people do not wnat love in something they can not face loosing it



missturbation -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/10/2009 8:25:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

you can be more then just kink fest   why not love it is the strongest of bonds be sides hate   only reason people do not wnat love in something they can not face loosing it


Who says all i have is a kinkfest?
I have no fear of being in love and losing it, love just has no place what so ever in my relationships. I'm more concerned someone will love me and lose me if i'm honest. Not because i'm so lovable but because my relationships are not forever and i don't want to hurt someone to that degree.



smallz01 -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/11/2009 5:32:21 AM)

i've always wondered why people question what makes them happy.
 
If you are happy being loved in your submission/Dominance...why question it?
If you are happy not being in a loving relationship...why question it?



CreativeDominant -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/11/2009 7:57:21 AM)

I respect and desire love but I want that love to be one of the basic foundations of the romantic relationship I want.  I prefer that to be with my submissive but I do not want love to color the D/s dynamic in a negative fashion--- used to manipulate the D/s dynamic in a way that is harmful to the dynamic and, eventually, the relationship.

I loved my first submissive but was not in love with her.  We used the love that was within our relationship to heighten the intensity of the D/s dynamic while not overriding the structure of the D/s dynamic.  I loved my second submissive and WAS in love with her---she used, and I alllowed it to happen for awhile, the love from the romantic relationship to spill over into the dynamic in a manipulative manner.  I was beginning to fall in love with my third submissive and she too, although to a much lesser extent, had a tendency to try and use the love to influence the D/s dynamic.  Having learned from my first two experiences, I did not allow it to happen and we were better off for it...or at least I thought so.  Turned out that for her, she needed to be able to use the love in that way and so fell back in with her first dominant.  It happens...

Tis one reason why I make it clear that while I seek a submissive with whom I can also be romantically involved, the two dynamics are separate though of course, intertwined.  It is a discussion that takes place early in beginning to know someone and one that is revisited so that my feelings and thoughts on the matter are made clear.  I also want to be clear as to how the submissive views it.



TreasureKY -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/11/2009 8:09:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

Where did this question of love not being an option or a given come from?


From individuals who did not hold their own beliefs with strong enough conviction that others could come along and make them question themselves.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Where did this question of love in a D/s or M/s relationship come from? (5/11/2009 11:15:52 AM)

quote:

Where did this question of love not being an option or a given come from?


It probably came from people who got involved with someone like me. You see, I see romance relationships and authority transfer relationships as two separate entities that I'd prefer to keep separate.

I came into this life and into my current household without any expectation of a love/romance growing. I doted on The Bladewing until he died, but I did it because of my -own- feelings... whether or not he was inclined to ever reciprocate those feelings was irrelevant, and aside from that, it would have been completely inadvisable for our situation.

I naturally gravitated to a household that mirrored my own thoughts on authority-transfer and romantic love, I suspect, since my graduation to the other side of the crop did nothing to change my feelings about my preferences concerning mixing authority transfer and romantic love. While I may enjoy having one of my servants around, and definitely feel a sense of familial/sovereign affection for hir, I have no romantic inclination in my authority-transfer relationships. I don't want to be married to my servants. I don't want to raise kids with them or share a glass of wine in front of the fire with them, or whisper 'sweet nothings' in their ears, or write them poetry, or, in my case, have sex with them (though there are some like myself who incorporate sex into their authority-transfer relationships, and I can't rule it out for myself forever... I rarely say "never".) I want to be perceived as the servant's sovereign, not as a lover, companion, or mate. I am also a logophile (a person who has an intense attraction to words). I prefer to accurately represent what I am feeling or anticipate feeling for another person... so, no, someone in service to me can not presume that I will come to "love" hir... and if I -do- come to have romantic feelings towards hir, I will no longer be hir sovereign, and that's just the way it is for me.

Dame Calla



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