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Kink and Goth - 5/11/2009 9:15:37 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
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Status: offline 		Hi, all----

I've noticed goth style noted in several threads lately and linked with kink preferences: ie; there is a pervasiveness to the idea that 'goth' folks are kinky.  This is not my first realization of such; it's always seemed to be the case actually (And, when I say always, I mean as long as I've noticed).  Goth seems to equal kinky more often, though than kinky equals goth; at least in my experience of speaking with folks on the matter. 

Being a creative, depressed kid, I was 'goth' before the term was coined.  We made our socially unacceptable attire rather than purchasing our counter-culture at the mall (Though, I'll not begrudge Hot Topic their presence: I gladly purchase stuff from them).  We gleefully listened to socially unacceptable music and our art, writing, etc. reflected our mindset.  It was an overall great way of coping and of self-expression and my goth style, while not as 'in-your-face' on a day-to-day basis has endured into adulthood to a degree.  (Note, the details I linked with 'goth' may be different than some folks and that may be a point of conversation too). 

As luck would have it, I grew up to be kinky me.  So, in my case, there is a correlation. 

I could float all sorts of theories as to why but that's what I'm starting this thread to create conversation about. 

Do you think there's a goth/kink link and if so, what is it? 
If you agree that the two are linked, why do you believe that is the case? 
Any other thoughts, feel free.  :> 

Have a great week, folks.  :>
  Davan

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/11/2009 9:38:15 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


Posts: 491
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Upstate, NY
Status: offline 		I think you'd be surprised at how few goth people are kinky, relatively. I'd guess it's much higher than the avg population, but not as high as you'd think.

I have no experience with goth, other then what i've learned from people I've met in my kinky travels. Goth kids hated me in school. 


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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/11/2009 9:41:50 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Oh, I know some people who are goth aren't kinky: that was my ex-'s idea of 'ideal'...someone who was all gothed up (Or otherwise socially unacceptable) yet was vanilla.  So not me.  Lol! 
Lol, goth kids, at least when I was in high school hated just about everyone equally so hopefully you weren't singled out. 
In your experiences in, as you put it, your kinky travels, how did goth and kink correlate? 
  Davan

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/11/2009 9:53:16 PM   
darklight17


Posts: 103
Joined: 3/30/2009
Status: offline 		I think it's trendy goth nowadays with their bondage pants, short haircuts, and their Zima. All the chains and such send a different visual image than the one they may be wishing to portray. However, a lot of people are gothic and kinky I suppose, but the sheer numbers of us are small compared to the mainstream.

Since goths are already on the aberrant path, it seems logical that this would carry on to sex too perhaps? I don't know, but I'm gothic and kinky. Could easily be gothic and into passionate vanilla romance too though. I don't mean I could, but if you read a lot of classical literature, throw in some morbid concepts, and bam- you are a vanilla goth.

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/11/2009 10:51:24 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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From: Upstate, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Oh, I know some people who are goth aren't kinky: that was my ex-'s idea of 'ideal'...someone who was all gothed up (Or otherwise socially unacceptable) yet was vanilla.  So not me.  Lol! 
Lol, goth kids, at least when I was in high school hated just about everyone equally so hopefully you weren't singled out. 
In your experiences in, as you put it, your kinky travels, how did goth and kink correlate? 
Davan


Oh, i was singled out :) But that's okay, growing up I was pretty much a jock, but a nice one who loved life and had a lot of fun. Goths aren't a big fan of clean cut, sports playing, happy go lucky pranksters.

As I've gotten to know some through the scene, there correlation is definitely strong, but not super strong. When I lived in DC, I went to see the Genitorturers with a friend of mine and her friends. My gf at the time and I stuck out like a sore thumb even though my friend and her husband tried to 'goth' us up a bit. Their friends still nicknamed us Biff and Buffy.

It was pretty funny because my friend made it a point to ask us not to mention their kinky predilections to their goth friends. It was kind of surreal. I've learned that pretty much any subculture, no matter how non mainstream they are, has dos and don'ts, dress codes and other acceptable/non acceptable behavior.

All my life I've been a part of a certain group of people, but have bounced between different subgroups and have always gotten the evil eye.

In college I was in a jock/preppy fraternity, but had a lot of friends who were musicians, or hippies, or nerds or whatever and i was never accepted fully into those groups. Say there would be ten people hanging out, I'd be fine with the two or three people I knew that invited me to the gathering, but the others would all look at me like I was a narc or something along those lines. i don't know, maybe I'm too outgoing and friendly, maybe that makes people on edge? Eh, whatever.


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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/11/2009 10:56:53 PM   
Fitznicely


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Status: offline 		From my youth as a longhaired rock club frequenter, I can tell you it's just an image. Kinky goths are few and far between, more's the pity.

Excellent eye candy tho.

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/11/2009 11:00:08 PM   
darklight17


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quote:



Oh, i was singled out :) But that's okay, growing up I was pretty much a jock, but a nice one who loved life and had a lot of fun. Goths aren't a big fan of clean cut, sports playing, happy go lucky pranksters.


Goths hate sports. It's simple. When was the last time an overweight goth hopped into yellow spandex pants and ran around with 21 other guys *cough* football *cough*? /vomit.

< Message edited by darklight17 -- 5/11/2009 11:01:44 PM >

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 12:21:00 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I guess I partially fit the bill, although my visual style now isn't actually 'goth' anymore. I'd ;presume there's at least some minor correlation, as a greater portion of the counter-culture facet of goth involves testing the exceptions to the normal...so at least an openness to kink-oriented ideas are probably more freely thrown out for consideration.
Now that I think about it, it's hard to determine how many of my exes who would qualify as goth would count as part of that correlation...or if most (if not nearly all) of my previous relationship were kinked-up regardless of the person (I suppose that may have been my fault!).


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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 1:08:56 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
Being a creative, depressed kid, I was 'goth' before the term was coined.    Davan


That's not goth, thats emo !(Now).
 
I grew up around and with the goths and new romantics in old London Town.  None of them where particularly 'depressed'.  Artistic absolutely and disillusioned yes, but depressed no.
 
I think that there is simply similarities in dress, nothing more than that.
 
the.dark.
 
 

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 2:23:35 AM   
GYPZYQUEEN


Posts: 730
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Status: offline 		SOME Goths are in costume..some LIVE a lifestyle,all have different personalities..
some are kinky..
 
Some cowboys are in a costume..some LIVE a  lifestyle..all have diiferent personalities..some are kinky..
 
Some boho -hippies are in a costume..some LIVE a lifestyle..all have different personalities ..some are kinky
 
SOME bikers are in a costume
..some live a lifestyle...all have different personalities..some are kinky
 
GQ

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 4:11:54 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Goth types are generally artistic and more open minded to what is outside the norm. I believe that the people into kink tend to be more artistic and open minded. I don't think the kink connection is based on Goth or any other fringe group, it's based on creativity and simply being open to something different.


< Message edited by lizi -- 5/12/2009 4:13:12 AM >

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 4:26:50 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		wow, I am going to agree with the.dark on something...
 
My adult UM has many goth friends--they are about as far from kinkdom as one can get, though they love aspects of the clothing---I cirnge every time she mentions wanting a purple velvet collar---- 

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 5:45:37 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

Do you think there's a goth/kink link and if so, what is it?
If you agree that the two are linked, why do you believe that is the case?


All 4 of our grown kids are in "the movement". 2 of them are activists with the GLF (Gothic Liberation Front). The apples don't fall far from the tree.

I think there -is- a connection between goth and kinky, and I think that connection comes out of the understanding that, despite its being very visually present, goth is still a 'counter-culture', and immersion in one counter-culture opens the door to exposure to others. If you have people who are experimental and open-minded, and who have an interesting relationship with fear, you'll find people who are more inclined to be involved in fetish and kink.

The other thing that is important to realize is that all "goth" are not the same. There are so many sub-groups out there -- the blood dolls and the EroGuro, the steampunk and the Victoriandustrial...and more. Each sub-group has its own particular relationship with kink, fetish, and horror. Some just brush the edges, and some immerse themselves in it. In the end, it still comes down to the person, individual tastes, and individual expressions of goth and kink.

Having my offspring in the GLF has made me a lot more aware of just how much freaky stuff is out there. I'm glad for my kids. I was a freak alone... at least they get to enjoy being their own strange selves in the company of others.


< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 5/12/2009 5:48:50 AM >

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 8:05:09 AM   
army101


Posts: 42
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Good thread and I think you can find a kink with any social group out there as well. Mostly Goth came about for attention as well as to be noticed too in my opinion. No kink was intended of course. But people read that into the style the make up as well as the clothes. Any image to far out from the "vanilla" life style must be kinky?!

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 8:46:49 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Do you think there's a goth/kink link and if so, what is it? 
If you agree that the two are linked, why do you believe that is the case? 
Any other thoughts, feel free.  :> 


As another "old school" goth girl, I do see a connection between the two subcultures.  In several clubs, the Goth Night also includes fetish shows as part of the entertainment.  However, I think it's not so much that goth = kinky but that goth = more willing to accept a wide variety of alternative lifestyles and more willing to be open about one's involvement in those lifestyles.  Some goths are bisexual or homosexual, some polyamorous or asexual, a significant number are involved in alternative spiritual practices, and the goth look was built around androgyny, which is an alternative expression of sexuality itself.
 
Of course, being goth doesn't automatically make a person anything but heterosexual, gender solid, monogamous, and vanilla, but being goth means a greater chance that some of one's friends fall outside the status quo on one or more of those points and are open about it.

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 10:05:24 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		no i don't believe that. i think it is individual just like everything else. during my youth and young adult years i was a clean cut prep. now i've morphed into a different style of dress. funeral wear as my mother calls it. she's gleefully waiting for this phase to end.

as for sex, that only got kinkier with age. i attribute that more to her closet and the reading materials than any subculture i was involved in.

porcelaine


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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 2:37:19 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
Being a creative, depressed kid, I was 'goth' before the term was coined.    Davan


That's not goth, thats emo !(Now).
 
I grew up around and with the goths and new romantics in old London Town.  None of them where particularly 'depressed'.  Artistic absolutely and disillusioned yes, but depressed no.
 
I think that there is simply similarities in dress, nothing more than that.
 
the.dark.
 
 

 
Lol, I'm talking about nearly 20 years ago; no one was running around calling anything goth (At least around where I lived but looking back, my style seemed to morph from metal chick to goth chick).  Emo seems to be relatively new.  I still haven't quite figured out wtf it is...looks like androgynous goth with some neon thrown in but that just may be indicative of me getting old.  Gaaaack! 
Now I really am going to be depressed, lol!  :> 
So, yo uthink it's entirely a happenstance of similar 'costuming', as it were?
   Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 4:01:29 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I have a lot of friends who are Goths who I also know are kinky, but I don't usually discuss it much with anyone I meet at Gothic/Industrial dances/etc. The Venn diagrams for Gothic/Industrial, Ren Fair/SCA, Sci Fi/Fantasy fandom, geeks, poly, pagan, and kinky have a lot of intersections.

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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 4:39:45 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


Posts: 491
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Upstate, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darklight17

quote:



Oh, i was singled out :) But that's okay, growing up I was pretty much a jock, but a nice one who loved life and had a lot of fun. Goths aren't a big fan of clean cut, sports playing, happy go lucky pranksters.


Goths hate sports. It's simple. When was the last time an overweight goth hopped into yellow spandex pants and ran around with 21 other guys *cough* football *cough*? /vomit.


Yet sports never defined who I was as a person.

My best friend of 20+ years doesn't know a tip off, frome a kick off, from a face off, but it has never impeded our being close enough to the point we pretty much share a brain.

That's what always made me laugh about fringe groups, for all the angst about not being accepted, a lot of the people that inhibit those type of social cliques are the most closed minded and ignorant people I've ever met.

I go to lifestyle events and get the same vibe, there will be a quarter of people at the event who will be incredibly nice and go out of their way to welcome me and then there are the people who sit in the corner and give me the hairy eyeball because I don't look or dress like they do.


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RE: Kink and Goth - 5/12/2009 9:24:19 PM   
Joseff


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Status: offline 		I'm sorry, but SNL's Goth talk ruined any appreciation for Goth I might have entertained.

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