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subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/11/2009 11:18:02 PM   
daisymae03


Posts: 64
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		is it possible to have a subdrop? without having been in subspace? without having any contact in a long time (long distance)

need help to advise a  friend.

and i know i know search for oth stuff on sub drop and  i did and didnt see what i thought i needed to know.


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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 1:10:53 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		Sub drop has no defining lines and can rear its head at any given time without particular circumstances. It doesn't have to come from an activity/session and the sub most certainly doesn't need to reach sub space to feel sub drop.

In my experience, sub drop and Dom/Domme drop tends to come out as spontaneous outbursts of emotions, though sometimes sub drop may be just coming back down to earth (and so not always bad). I think good sub drop is more likely after an intense session but emotional sub drop comes from a slight feeling of paranoia caused by the interaction between Dominant and submissive or lack of it.

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 5:09:59 AM   
Puc


Posts: 34
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		excuse the probably stupid question, but whats sub-drop?

(in reply to allthatjaz)
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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 5:33:19 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I know I have very clear drop when my partner has been out of contact for longer than normal and when I have not spent time together when I really needed it.  I get very emotionally charged and just seem lost and even a bit depressed in those times.  I hate it because I am really not like that.  It is very close to insecurity, but it is just somehow different.  When that presence is not around I find myself just wandering through life.  It reminds me of the time just before finally breaking through and finding these good people in my life.  Nothing made sense anymore.

I wish you the best in getting through this difficult time.  Try to see if you can increase contact, any contact at all.  In the meantime and always, take good care of yourself.  Eat well, sleep adequately, exercise, and have some fun and fresh air.  It goes a long way.

lovingpet

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 6:15:09 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm going to disagree here.

If one believes that the concept of sub space is caused by the rush of endorphins in the brain from an activity to cause the increased chemical release, then yes, sub drop only applies when the brain is no longer receiving that over abundant amount of said reaction.

People will often confuse plain old mood swings or bits of depression, such as feeling lonely when not with their D type, and label it "drop."  That's not the proper case.  It's just normal, every day feelings.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 7:21:54 AM   
euroluv


Posts: 33
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		can one be in a subdrop too long and get depressed ? if the sub is left suddenly for instance  without anyword  and or no reason ?or is that jusplain love sickness and or normal sadness ?or whatever u wanna call it
greets

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 7:29:10 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		If you're referring to after play, the Top just kind of takes off on you, that's probably a real good way to welcome drop to your doorstep. 

However, what I think you're referring to is just plain emotion.  It has nothing to do with the fact that you happen to be a sub.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 7:36:07 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think the experience of drop is solely associated with "scening".  People forget that the brain produces a plethora of chemicals at all times, and that the experience of being intimate on a daily basis with another human being causes your brain to literally stew with hormones and neurotransmitters.  This is why some substances like chocolate can artificially reproduce some of the experience of "being in love", in brain chemistry terms...

No one has sat down with a large enough sample of submissive men and women and scientifically studied the chemical changes that their brains go through as a result of contact or interaction with their dominant partners.  I would be willing to bet that the results would show profound changes in brain chemistry associated with the emotions they go through as submissives or bottoms in a bdsm relationship.  "Dropping" from lack of contact or intimacy would be just as normal as "dropping" because your neurochemistry spiked during a heavy scene and then dropped to normal or below-normal.  Sub-drop (and potentially dom-drop) are not just blood-sugar or heavy-scene issues; I think it's perfectly valid to discuss them separately from other forms of mood swing or reactive depression.


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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 8:19:34 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I might have agreed with you, Shatki, if any of the above would be considered any different than people who are not involved in wiitwd.  That lack of contact and intimacy is just the same between husband and wife, rather than sub and Dom.  It's not elevated to some level just because the titles change.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 9:32:10 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I find my response to a lack of contact with my partners to impact me much more profoundly and on a more organic level than it does not having my spouse around.  I can't explain that one, but it is the case for me.

I think there is a physical piece to long term absence for those that are accustomed to going to subspace as part of play.  Not only is there the down side shortly after the scene (hours to days or whatever), the body has also become accustomed to getting that endorphine rush on a regular basis.  When it does not occur, the body doesn't necessarily compensate for that.  This leaves hormones and chemicals out of their normal range for that person and there are subsequent consequences for that.  I think this is what goes on in a long term absence like this.  It is still subdrop, just a different form and (at least for me) is experienced a tad differently as well.

I really ride the roller coaster in every possible way because my body is very sensitive to these changes.  I know how play impacts me and try to be prepared for it.  I also know it is important for my partners to respond when things have gone too long.  Everyine involved is a aware it is not me being unstable or attention whoring.  It is a legitimate concern.  Over an extreme amount of time, my guess is that this would all rise and fall through some cycles and eventually become milder until it was gone.  I just hope I never have to find out.

lovingpet 

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 10:00:55 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I might have agreed with you, Shatki, if any of the above would be considered any different than people who are not involved in wiitwd.  That lack of contact and intimacy is just the same between husband and wife, rather than sub and Dom.  It's not elevated to some level just because the titles change.


I get what your saying but I don't believe its as simple as that.
Gilrfriends, boyfriends, husbands and wives in general don't tend to share the deeper side of 'the window of their soul'. They often keep that little box tightly closed and if anyone gets too close to guessing whats inside they often become self protective and defensive. When one opens up as a submissive and perhaps even as a Dominant, they can
throw that 'window' wide open and by doing that they are showing ultimate trust and the giving of trust can lead to one feeling highly vulnerable.
In cases where the Dominant can not always be present for days after an interaction or even a revelation of how he/she thinks and ticks, then the sub can start to feel more vulnerable. She/he will become overly in tune to his voice tones, his wording in text messages and so on and so on and often see things that just aren't there. These irrational feelings lead to self questioning and often rejection but its not just the rejection from a partner, its the rejection of the most intimate part of who she/he is. It just doesn't get tougher than that.


When I drop from a hard intense session its very different. I start to feel grounded and often resent that feeling of having to come back down to earth but its not something that leaves me feeling its to do with my partner. Its never a vulnerable feeling. Saying that I am lucky because my partner has always been around to pick up the pieces after a heavy session.
On the two occasions that I have felt a sudden and uncontrollable drop it has been after a very controlling but no physical contact session. He's been away shortly after with work and I am left with my own unreasonable thoughts about him, about me and about us. On those occasions he has had the most awful text messages from me telling him to come home and pack his things and fuck off. The drop has been so powerful that it has caused us to almost break up twice and yet I can look back now and feel like an utterly unreasonable fool


< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 5/12/2009 10:57:03 AM >

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Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 12:53:17 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm sure this is something that we'll probably just have to agree to disagree on.  I think you're assuming that the level of intimacy is somehow higher between those involved in D/s dynamics than those in vanilla marriages.  (I certainly hope not for the latter's sake.)  Since I can speak about both, having both currently, I can assure you that this is not the case for everyone.  MP is quite well aware of My inner darker stuff.  It doesn't take him being My dominant to do it.  I would say that it takes a good marriage, but that's another subject entirely.

What's being labeled as drop in this context, really doesn't seem any different than what anyone in the vanilla world would call separation anxiety or depression.  That is one of the causes of some who are clinically depressed.  The fact that their brain doesn't produce enough of those feel good chemicals.  Other people get it, too.  Just ask anyone who due to life circumstances has to be apart from the person that they love.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to allthatjaz)
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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 1:15:47 PM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Gilrfriends, boyfriends, husbands and wives in general don't tend to share the deeper side of 'the window of their soul'.
end quote

Oh nonononono, i completely so enormously disagree with that in general !!!

...and when i turn off my computer i sometimes suffer cyber drop...poor me

edit to add...i can not get this quoting thing right, sorry

< Message edited by ranja -- 5/12/2009 1:16:46 PM >

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 1:28:12 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I think so, yes.  I have experienced subdrop without having experienced anything remotely resembling what some submissives describe as subspace.  Subdrop for me has happened when the scening was particularly emotional, very intense mentally and has involved high levels of physical pain.   Yet, I've never had all that fuzzy, high, floating colorful stuff that so many call subspace.  So for me, yes, it's possible to drop without having experienced subspace.

(in reply to daisymae03)
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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 2:31:56 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
  That lack of contact and intimacy is just the same between husband and wife, rather than sub and Dom.  It's not elevated to some level just because the titles change.


It might be "just the same" and it might not.  The fact is, submission and dominance may cause chemical changes in the brain which ordinary sexual and physical intimacy do not.  The anecdotal evidence is pretty good for it, in fact, given the fact that "subspace" and "domspace" exist at all.

None of this debate can be settled until someone checks it with appropriate laboratory controls, but I think it's worth mentioning to people that they are not necessarily going crazy and they are not necessarily "just having a mood swing" if they experience some serious surges in brain chemistry.

Some things are easier to weather when you understand what is going on.


_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 2:46:02 PM   
aidan


Posts: 904
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline 		Back when I was planning to major in sociology for my BA, I really wanted to do a thesis or doctorate on just such a thing as the difference between "sub-drop/Dom-drop" and similar feelings in vanilla couples.

The stuff we really don't know about the BDSM community - sociologically, neurologically, ethnographically - could fill a lot of bigass books.


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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 2:53:21 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Now this I can agree with.  If it could be proven that there is a different chemistry of flow of said chemicals within the brains of submissives, for that matter bottoms, tops, and D types as well, it could be possible.  I can't even imagine the research possibilities.  We often say we are wired differently.  Just think if our actual chemistry is different!

Of course, this in itself poses potential problems.  We'd probably find ourselves back to being considered mentally ill or somehow defective in some way by the medical community.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to aidan)
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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 3:03:19 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think it is that our basic initial chemistry is different, but once we have gotten used to having these areas indulged, then a series of events is put into action.  I really believe brain chemistry is altered during ANY moderate to intense D/s play with or without pain AND that said chemistry becomes the norm for the people involved.  When the stimulus is not there to keep it that way, "normal" brain chemistry is now forgein and not comfortable at all.  It is similar to dependence and, in some cases, addiction.  Dependence, however, can be healthy or not based on the quality of life it brings about.  I would like to think this area of my life is a good thing to me and helps me in many different ways.  It still sucks when I have to do without.  I may have a dependence on a certain medication, but if it is allowing me to live a good and productive life, it is not a bad dependency.  If it makes me unable to support myself or take care of my obligations, it is a bad thing.  Same here.  Subdrop of absence is likely similar to withdrawing from a vital medication.  Life can go back to "normal", but do I want it to?

lovingpet

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 3:55:25 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		I am not sure if i would call it sub drop. I know when my Master is away and i do not see him for several days i get moody and a little blue. I think this is just because i miss him, i don't se it as sub drop. Is sounds to me like you just miss him and want to see him.

Matt's littleone

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RE: subdrop, with out sub space? - 5/12/2009 11:49:56 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I find it interesting that I have never experienced a negative drop after an intense physical session where I have sub spaced and yet I have temporarily hit rock bottom after what I considered to be a very exciting verbal interaction. Perhaps it is just a downer but its not like anything I have ever known and its not something I felt once during a long marriage with many ups and downs.
I am much more a Sado/masochist than a sub and perhaps for me thats the problem but then over the years I have seen submissives hit a drop after dominance with no physical. We can call it what we want and lets face it, most downers need a trigger so if that trigger stems from a submissive/Dominant interaction I personally would prefer to call it sub drop.




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S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos


Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

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