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RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/14/2009 10:37:21 AM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I use vanilla to describe pretty much anyone who doesn't self-identify as kinky.
......

That sounds like a pretty good way to put it.

It's a general concept, not a precise term.

As such it is pretty sloppy. I suppose it could also equate to something like;"your kink is not my kink" , therefor, if that's the case, you're my vanilla and I'm yours.

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Post #: 21

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/14/2009 11:32:36 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I use vanilla to describe pretty much anyone who doesn't self-identify as kinky.

For me it isn't the activity per se, but the self awareness. I might describe an activity as too kinky for me. But even if I saw a relationship where one person apparently held all the power, I would not describe them as being into D/s unless they self identified as sominant or submissive.

And thankfully I live in a town where same sex relationships are accepted fully.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 5/14/2009 11:35:40 AM >

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Post #: 22

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/14/2009 1:20:16 PM

KoolnSassy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I just thought I would throw this out for everyone here. I see a lot of people making a distinction between 'vanilla' and kinky and BDSM (whatever) and it piqued my curiosity.

So when does vanilla cease to be vanilla? Where are the boundaries? The parameters?

When does a vanilla relationship become something else?

Personally I don't define boundaries I just act as I believe is appropriate in different settings and situations. I think a vanilla relationship becomes something else when all involved want it to.

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Post #: 23

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/14/2009 1:23:14 PM

YourhandMyAss

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Vanilla to me is absolutely no kinkyness, no swinging , being very very strait laced. So vanilla stops being vanilla, when kink is involved, in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I just thought I would throw this out for everyone here. I see a lot of people making a distinction between 'vanilla' and kinky and BDSM (whatever) and it piqued my curiosity.

So when does vanilla cease to be vanilla? Where are the boundaries? The parameters?

When does a vanilla relationship become something else?

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 24

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/14/2009 1:42:53 PM

ShaktiSama

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I find that the most frequent use of the word "vanilla" in bdsm is oppositional.

"Vanilla" is whatever we are not. Usually pejorative, but at minimum it's a word for the sex acts, relationship dynamics and attitudes that are closer to whatever we consider "mainstream" than our own tastes and practices. If we're poly, then mono relationships are more "vanilla". If we're sado/maso, then relationships without pain are "vanilla". If we're D/S, relationships without serious power imbalance are "vanilla".

Having worked as an erotic photographer both in and out of the bdsm community, I have found that "vanilla" people are seldom as vanilla as bdsm folk imagine them to be. But I have seen some meaningful differences between people who identify as bdsm community members and those who don't. Essentially, it's about the extremes: power dynamics, pain, immobilization.

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Post #: 25

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/14/2009 1:54:32 PM

lally2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

hiya xx

I use vanilla to describe pretty much anyone who doesn't self-identify as kinky.

ok, but i have girlfriends who are in a vanilla relationship who openly discuss their kinky activities with me, mainly cos they know they can. i would also say that most mainstream folk enjoy a bit of kink and consider themselves kinky in the bedroom, of those that dont im willing to bet many are either repressing it, in denial or darent mention it to their partner for fear of repulsing them.

Lally and housemouse, I wouldn't argue like that in public whether or not I was in a D/s relationship,

well, i only hear these people out in public, but if i lurked in their broom cupboard for long enough ill bet id hear the same stuff going on in their home too.

and I've been in several kinky relationships with no formal/overt power exchange (I leaned slightly Domme, especially in the bedroom, but there wasn't the degree of surrender/yielding to my will that I needed in order to consider it actual submission). It's frequently used to denigrate anyone who posts *here* who isn't sufficiently kinky for that person's tastes, or who isn't into D/s.

its all about degrees really, and if someone denegrates another for how they live their life then they should probably be ignored.

I'm pretty sure that a caning that leaves welts and bruises for a week *doesn't* count as vanilla! It's particularly annoying when the person saying so doesn't even have any physical face to face experience with D/s or BDSM, but is trying to claim that I'm vanilla (or that I don't exist, because I'm a switch, for that matter).

i agree it is extremely annoying. again its down to degrees. few vanillas would inflict/accept a caning, but they would enjoy some light bondage and a light spanking. no power exchange atall, simply a bit of fun where both are equal and equal in their expectations of what they want to get from it all. maybe a bit of role play. from what i can make out from my friends, its all a bit of a romp and a giggle leading to some pretty hot sex - and all of that could easily describe a moderatly D/s inclined couple. thats why this is so complicated to answer. what makes it not vanilla. in the end i think its down to intent and degrees. its just that the gradation from being vanilla to 'this' keeps confusing us.

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 26

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/14/2009 3:43:24 PM

SIRLOINSTEAK

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Joined: 3/30/2009
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Vanilla is vanilla only when you use Ice cream in sex. Otherwise, its kinky.....

If a woman drops to her knees and starts drooling in an alleyway, I'm not super concerned about what is kinky and what isn't. My goal is to wonder if I can get my rocks off before we get caught in the alley way......

Will I be so concerned about getting caught that I won't be able to get my rocks off for too long, thus self-fulling prophecy, too worried, takes too long, gets caught......

Then there are always motels, but that's not as exciting appearantly unless you do something else kinky, like add whipcream and cherries......

Bah, who else is in the mood for Ice cream? ;0 Ice cream, you'ce scream, we all scream for Ice cream.....one more time.....

FOOD FIGHT!!!

(in reply to SIRLOINSTEAK)

Post #: 27

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 8:46:53 AM

Andalusite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
well, i only hear these people out in public, but if i lurked in their broom cupboard for long enough ill bet id hear the same stuff going on in their home too.
I've had disagreements in private, but rarely to that extent. I'm generally pretty easygoing, and choose to be with men who are, as well, whether or not we're in a D/s relationship.

i agree it is extremely annoying. again its down to degrees. few vanillas would inflict/accept a caning, but they would enjoy some light bondage and a light spanking. no power exchange atall, simply a bit of fun where both are equal and equal in their expectations of what they want to get from it all. maybe a bit of role play. from what i can make out from my friends, its all a bit of a romp and a giggle leading to some pretty hot sex - and all of that could easily describe a moderatly D/s inclined couple. thats why this is so complicated to answer. what makes it not vanilla. in the end i think its down to intent and degrees. its just that the gradation from being vanilla to 'this' keeps confusing us.

I don't think there's such a gradation. If they describe what they're doing as kinky or BDSM, then that's what they're doing, whether or not there is any D/s involved. Like I said earlier, having no power exchange has nothing to do with whether or not it's vanilla - most of my kinky relationships had no overt power exchange. What makes it vanilla or not has to do with their awareness and intent. I have been in two D/s relationships as well, but they weren't more real, or less vanilla, based on that.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 5/15/2009 8:56:46 AM >

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 28

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 8:55:35 AM

Andalusite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
sorry for the confusion. the way this slave perceives the term vanilla, this slave would consider you to be involved in an alternative(non-vanilla) relationship if the foundation of your relationship is one that is NOT standard/conventional/accepted by our larger society.
...
so, if you and your spouse or opposite sex partner like to do a little slap and tickle in the bedroom, then yes, this slave would consider you to be a "vanilla" couple. perhaps a kinky vanilla couple, but still a vanilla couple, because the basis of your relationship is on conventional standards.

I've never heard "vanilla" used to mean anything but "not into D/s or BDSM" anywhere else. I'm still amazed that you consider my gay and lesbian and poly friends who are actively uninterested in D/s or BDSM to be "not vanilla," but are determined to label all but two of my relationships as vanilla. In my first BDSM-oriented relationship, I was a Domme for 5 years, since I was 20. In my most recent relationship, I was a submissive for 3 years. In between I had a few egalitarian kinky relationships - leaning very slightly Dominant in the bedroom, but not with a formal D/s dynamic, and not to the degree of surrender to my will for me to consider it to truly be D/s. Of course, I don't need your approval for my relationships, but in my very strong opinion, I haven't had a vanilla relationship since I was 20. With all of the people here who hide their needs for years in truly vanilla relationships, afraid to talk about their desires and dreams, I'm frankly a bit insulted to be lumped in with them by you.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 29

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 9:30:01 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
sorry for the confusion. the way this slave perceives the term vanilla, this slave would consider you to be involved in an alternative(non-vanilla) relationship if the foundation of your relationship is one that is NOT standard/conventional/accepted by our larger society.
...
so, if you and your spouse or opposite sex partner like to do a little slap and tickle in the bedroom, then yes, this slave would consider you to be a "vanilla" couple. perhaps a kinky vanilla couple, but still a vanilla couple, because the basis of your relationship is on conventional standards.

...I've never heard "vanilla" used to mean anything but "not into D/s or BDSM" anywhere else. I'm still amazed that you consider my gay and lesbian and poly friends who are actively uninterested in D/s or BDSM to be "not vanilla," but are determined to label all but two of my relationships as vanilla....

in this slave's experience, she heard the term vanilla used to describe the difference between a standard or conventional version and an alternative version of something, such as software products, long before she heard of anyone referring to vanilla meaning "not into D/s or BDSM". for example, regarding information technology:
quote:

vanilla (pronounced vah-NIHL-uh ) is an adjective meaning plain or basic. The unfeatured version of a product is sometimes referred to as the vanilla version. The term is based on the fact that vanilla is the most popular or at least the most commonly served flavor of ice cream. Or, as Eric Raymond, editor of The New Hacker's Dictionary , puts it, the default ice cream.
IBM's BookMaster product, a text publishing system used in mainframe environments, provides a default way, called vanilla, to specify which parts of the book to publish, and another fancier way to specify it, called mocha .
Some Web sites with frames call the simpler version of their site the vanilla version.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci213272,00.html

quote:

...Of course, I don't need your approval for my relationships, but in my very strong opinion, I haven't had a vanilla relationship since I was 20. With all of the people here who hide their needs for years in truly vanilla relationships, afraid to talk about their desires and dreams, I'm frankly a bit insulted to be lumped in with them by you...

wow. then you misunderstand this slave's intention for responding to the OP and then answering the question you posed to her. there is no value judgement where this slave is concerned, regardless of how yours or anyone else's relationship is structured. it was and is not this slave's intention to insult you or anyone else, because she doesn't perceive either a vanilla or alternatively structured relationship as inherently insulting, some sort of put-down or filled with fear and unspoken dreams.

this slave's parents had a fabulous vanilla relationship for 38 years---they were equal partners with a solid foundation based on their marriage vows. they were BOTH head of the household.

this slave has a lot of respect for both versions of relationships...vanilla and alternative.

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 30

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 9:57:30 AM

LeatherBentOne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

the difference to me is the levels of power exchange that goes on. to me that is the defining issue. it isnt about the activities we do so much as the mental processes we go through.

i would be extremely surprised if any of my 'nilla friends and relatives suddenly decided to hand the reins over to their other half and say, i trust you to make all of the decisions on my behalf from now on. it just aint gonna happen -

you know, i go around the supermarket or wherever and i hear couples squabbling and bitching at each other and i think, phew! - im so glad that isnt how my relationship works. if one of those couples turned around to the other and said 'thats enough, be quiet' there would be pistols at dawn and no sex for a month. with me, if He ever has to tell me to hush up, i do so, gratefully and happily and slip quietly into my comfy place. thats the difference for me anyhow

An S/m relationship only between a Top and bottom, not including anything D/s, would seem to be kinky to me. Would you not think so, or did I misinterpret your post? My thinking would be that "vanilla" folks dont ordinarily practice D/s or S/m, (therefore if one component is missing and the other exists, no matter which one) arent they just, plain kinky?

LBO

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 31

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 10:08:24 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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Vanilla is anything that does not involve what one of the letters of BDSM represents. So if a D/s couple are watching TV together, they are doing a vanilla activitity together.

A Vanilla person would be somebody who is not into ANY of the letters of BDSM. Basically somebody who's not really into Bondage, Dominance, submission, Discipline, or S&M as part of the way they live life.

Some people might engage in a little bondage every once in awhile, however it's not something that gives them the warm and fuzzy.

In short, if you incorperate or you want to make what any of the letters of BDSM stand for as part of your normal life.

BDSMers are like other people, we just make certain aspects of BDSM part of the way we live our life. Vanilla people don't make or practice BDSM as part of their way of life.

The kink factor confuses people a little. Because some people can be kinky from time to time. You can label them as Kinky Vanillas or Bedroom only BDSMers. So what? They just have their toes in the water. Do it from time to time. However, they ain't incorperating BDSM into their day to day life, or their way of living life.

You can have Vanilla people doing some pretty none vanilla things, just as much as use BDSMers do some pretty vanilla stuff.

Making it or not making BDSM part of the way you live your life, in my opinion is the difference between Vanilla or not.

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 32

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 10:08:27 AM

oceanwinds

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First time i heard the term vanilla, minus the flavoring, was about BDSM. Interesting fact though it seems to be more widespread then the type of lifestyle one lives. I have heard non-bdsmers using that term in referrence to a person's food taste, clothing taste, etc. This give me the impression vanilla is used to represent conversative and boring. I never been an advocate for vanilla anything. Give me banana or chocolate.

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Post #: 33

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 10:59:38 AM

lally2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
well, i only hear these people out in public, but if i lurked in their broom cupboard for long enough ill bet id hear the same stuff going on in their home too.
I've had disagreements in private, but rarely to that extent. I'm generally pretty easygoing, and choose to be with men who are, as well, whether or not we're in a D/s relationship.

i agree it is extremely annoying. again its down to degrees. few vanillas would inflict/accept a caning, but they would enjoy some light bondage and a light spanking. no power exchange atall, simply a bit of fun where both are equal and equal in their expectations of what they want to get from it all. maybe a bit of role play. from what i can make out from my friends, its all a bit of a romp and a giggle leading to some pretty hot sex - and all of that could easily describe a moderatly D/s inclined couple. thats why this is so complicated to answer. what makes it not vanilla. in the end i think its down to intent and degrees. its just that the gradation from being vanilla to 'this' keeps confusing us.

I don't think there's such a gradation. If they describe what they're doing as kinky or BDSM, then that's what they're doing, whether or not there is any D/s involved. Like I said earlier, having no power exchange has nothing to do with whether or not it's vanilla - most of my kinky relationships had no overt power exchange. What makes it vanilla or not has to do with their awareness and intent. I have been in two D/s relationships as well, but they weren't more real, or less vanilla, based on that.

and then i got to thinking about the people who are D/s and Ms but engage in very mild kink or no kink atall. theyre not vanilla. where do they sit.

maybe its all down to consent. when the word consent is uttered youre entering into something that sits beyond the comfort range of most mainstream relationships.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 5/15/2009 11:04:00 AM >

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 34

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 11:11:43 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwinds

First time i heard the term vanilla, minus the flavoring, was about BDSM. Interesting fact though it seems to be more widespread then the type of lifestyle one lives. I have heard non-bdsmers using that term in referrence to a person's food taste, clothing taste, etc. This give me the impression vanilla is used to represent conversative and boring. I never been an advocate for vanilla anything. Give me banana or chocolate.

Vanilla is code word for anything "Plain Jayne" like. When BDSMers reference other people as vanilla. Meaning people that are not interested or involved with BDSM.

Face it, not everybody is into committing to a D/s relationship, being tied up, flogged, or being punished. Some people think being punished is silly and something that should only be done to children who do not listen. Take on the whole I'm an adult and I don't need punishment if I'm bad type of mindset. However, in a D/s relationship context. Punishment is often part of the package deal. Some people don't want D/s relationships and could not deal with one. Some people could not stand being tied up for 5 minutes let alone for an hour. Some people could not dream of consenting to physically and/or mentally hurting another person or intentionally allowing another person to do the same. Come on here, how difficult is it to understand the true meaning of the "Vanilla" concept here.

Everybody is vanilla when it comes to some aspect of life. Some people are extremely anything but vanilla, very interesting people to be around. They are far from vanilla in many aspects. Some people that are into BDSM really can be dull. So I guess in some ways, the dull people who are into BDSM can be considered Vanilla, or less than interesting.

Some people are vanilla when it comes to conversation. Boring Boring Boring. Some people are vanilla when it comes to taste in music. Boring Boring Boring... okay. What is boring some people is not that boring to other people.

Vanilla is always weighted from some sort of bias or perspective. Nothing wrong with having a perference for something a long with a bias.

Makes the world an interesting place.

(in reply to oceanwinds)

Post #: 35

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 12:40:08 PM

army101

Posts: 42
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Kinky? what the Hell is that? JK Vanilla to me is the same old sex thing a lot of people get into...you know that rut that never changes because either partner wont ask for something different.

IE...Him, oh Dear is it Thursday already? Oh it is? Okay be right up and you get in the usual postion. Three minutes this time? Sorry Honey pot you know I am a minute man!

Kink is anything different and like some one said kink is defined by peoples own tastes and levels. "Whips and Chains but hold the Great Danes okay?"

Some kinks arent for everyone. Me I stay away from the pain freaks, any bodily fluids, as well as the blood drinking no thanks not for me.

Kink is what seperates a lot of people from the same old boring vanilla lifestlye, speaking of sex at least.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 36

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 1:41:11 PM

MistressDolly

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Joined: 8/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I see a lot of people making a distinction between 'vanilla' and kinky and BDSM (whatever) and it piqued my curiosity.

One is in rapture with a non-egalitarian dynamic, the other is in denial. lol. Kink is an extraneous element.

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(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 37

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 3:16:44 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
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From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I just thought I would throw this out for everyone here. I see a lot of people making a distinction between 'vanilla' and kinky and BDSM (whatever) and it piqued my curiosity.

So when does vanilla cease to be vanilla? Where are the boundaries? The parameters?

When does a vanilla relationship become something else?

As it is when one asks "When is a Dom/me a Dom/me... it's when you are recognised as such by the people you interact with.

One person's Dom is another person's asshole.

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 38

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 3:51:53 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

There's no such thing as vanilla, everyone has kink.

i dunno
i met some pretty straight people along the way...well at least i thought i did...
maybe they were repressing it, or in denial, or doing a displacement activity with me.
Anything is possible......and even after i said that they were still in denial?? wtf

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Post #: 39

RE: When is vanilla not vanilla? - 5/15/2009 3:55:37 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I just thought I would throw this out for everyone here. I see a lot of people making a distinction between 'vanilla' and kinky and BDSM (whatever) and it piqued my curiosity.

So when does vanilla cease to be vanilla? Where are the boundaries? The parameters?

When does a vanilla relationship become something else?

'Everyone is this room is wearing a uniform'...Frank Zappa 1970

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 40

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