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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 6:58:59 AM   
daddysliloneds


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my taste in people are still the same as they've always been, so my answer is no! i will, however, add that i've been fatter than the pigs we used to slaughter on our farm, and i've been skinny, and i got a whole lot more attention from men back in my fat days then i have during any of my skinny ones...

so basically, anyway you look at it, there's someone for everyone if you dig under enough rocks.

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 7:14:21 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
That's just it.  Don't try and prove it to ANYONE.

I agree with this.  I would add that, often, if you're trying to prove something to someone else, it really means you're trying to prove something to yourself.  Might as well cut out the middleman and just deal with whatever the issue is.


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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 7:44:01 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

Original: DavanKael

I will also go on to say that, perhaps most of all, I am revolted to read scientific articles that attribute some birth defects to obesity: yes, some babies are actually physically damaged by the fatness of the woman carrying them.


Davan, can you provide references for these scientific articles, because I've been involved in midwifery for over 25 years and I have NEVER heard of a birth defect caused by the mother's obesity, ever... so if you have a scientific article to back this statement up, I'd be interested in seeing it.

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 7:44:41 AM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

But what I cannot, apparently, under any circumstances prefer, is slim women over fat ones. When I prefer brunettes over blondes, nobody rushes screaming to the boards to talk about my condemnation of blondes. And guess what, any blonde could be a brunette pretty quickly *laughs*.

i see your point here. Preferences shouldn't have to be PC. A person likes what they like.

Acceptance isn't about changing ones own likes and dislikes, but at the same time, some people have expressed disgust akin to a sort of hatred against large people. That seems a little too extreme. It's as if these folks care waaaay too much about what other people have going on, and start to take it personally that someone's body type isn't to their liking.

Now personally, i have a problem with anyone that doesn't try to look their best. But it's not a size thing. i have issues with bad grooming, and careless slovenly appearance. In my opinion, there are some hot big girls,and some hot extremely skinny girls....hotness, and sexiness are usually more about a person's inside, and then reflected on the outside.

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 8:04:12 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 8:41:19 AM   
ShaktiSama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

And is Healthful decided for each and every person based on each and every person? No its not, its based on a generalized scale that is off base for most of the people measured on it.


I agree.  From the perspective of physical anthropology, there are a lot of problems with the measuring sticks and advice that are promulgated in threads like this.

For one thing, look how many posts we had from a guy with the word "Hollywood" in his name--Hollywood, which is the largest exporter of body dysmorphia, anorexia and mutilation surgeries in the history of the world.  The "beautiful people" and elite of the city are monuments to nothing more than bloated capitalism.  The ideology they export, where beauty, sex and fitness are concerned, is designed to create PROFIT.  Not health, not love or ecstasy, and not happiness.  And I have never known anyone from Los Angeles who did not have serious mental health issues where the human body was concerned.  It seems to be impossible to live in the city without picking up the madness--just as it is impossible to live in a leper colony without starting to go numb and rot.

Then we have people vomiting up "health advice" and ideals of body type and shape which are based on the fitness and nutritional needs of a very small proportion of the Earth's population.  It is not possible for all human beings to look, eat and operate their bodies in the way that is advisable for European Caucasians with a slight endomorphic tendency.  Evolution does not design all human beings to live, eat and move the same way.  On the contrary, it shapes all human beings to their circumstances.  Some people cannot digest certain foods at all.  Some people cannot survive a high-sodium diet.  Some people cannot become fat and will not, no matter what they eat and how little they exercise.  Some people cannot become thin and will not, no matter what they eat and how much they exercise.  There are metabolic differences between different populations of people and metabolic differences between sexes as well. 

None of these things are taken into account by "one size is correct" ideologies--and there is a reason for that.  These ideologies exist to market goods and services, not to achieve health.  They want you to buy stuff that will help you fit into the cookie cutter.  People spend billions a year on gym fees, medical programs, foods, medicines, surgeries, cosmetics, and clothing; the companies that produce these things spend billions on advertising and mass-marketing the ideals that make their goods and services attractive.

Some of the people who are piping up in these threads to lecture are those whose livelihoods are supported by the Perfection Industry in one way or another.  Others are just believers in the ideology.  No one who is being stigmatized by this ideology is obligated to drink their Kool-Aid, however, any more than black people were obligated to believe that they were not really human because people of another race could once profit by enslaving them.

Upshot of this is simple:  "fat acceptance", in many cases, is also "reality acceptance" and "human diversity acceptance".   And even in the cases where people do have health problems and weight problems that need to be addressed by changes in diet and exercise, stigmatizing them and persecuting them is probably not the answer.  The lifestyle changes necessary to change your health habits need to be grounded in self-esteem, not self-hatred.

Socially condoned violence and persecution does not create a psychologically or physically healthy society.  Americans already have a society saturated with bullying about weight; it creates a lot of self-hatred and neurosis and violence in our school system, but not a higher population of thin or fit people overall.  You really want Americans to lose weight on the national level--take away their cars and give them bus routes, subways and trains, and a lifestyle grounded in walking rather than driving.  Remove all the escalators and moving walkways from public places and make people walk and climb the stairs for themselves.  Forbid the use of elevators to anyone who was not in a wheelchair or using a walker or a cane.

The "obesity epidemic" could probably be solved within ten years without resorting to name-calling and condemnation.

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 10:10:27 AM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

Original: DavanKael

I will also go on to say that, perhaps most of all, I am revolted to read scientific articles that attribute some birth defects to obesity: yes, some babies are actually physically damaged by the fatness of the woman carrying them.


Davan, can you provide references for these scientific articles, because I've been involved in midwifery for over 25 years and I have NEVER heard of a birth defect caused by the mother's obesity, ever... so if you have a scientific article to back this statement up, I'd be interested in seeing it.


Hi, CallaFirestormBW----
When I referenced the articles, I was mentally wishing I'd kept the print copies from which I read what I was speaking about.  I'm going to do some googling and see what I can find.  I'll plan to cmail it to you if I am able to find them.  I'm thinking the articles were in the neighborhood of 5 years ago, so it's not new information. 
  Davan

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 10:15:45 AM   
lronitulstahp


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Maybe you're actually referring to Gestational Diabetes not birth defects?

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 10:23:45 AM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp
Maybe you're actually referring to Gestational Diabetes not birth defects?


Hi, Ironitulstahp----
No, definitely birth defects.  The reason it made such an impression was because it was such a horrifying idea.  I literally ran around showing articles to people I knew (Sort of hoping I was somehow comprehending in error because that's justs such a horror but the more I thought about it, the more it actually makes sense).
  Davan

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 10:28:24 AM   
Daddyluvsitrough


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Personally I don't have a hatred of the morbidly obese people - for the vast majority of them it's their own decision on their lifestyle.  If they choose to put themselves in a higher category of risk for heart disease, diabetes, and other medical complications that's' their choice.  What I do have an issue with is accepting this as the new norm of society that we're moving towards being more fat & lazy than previous generations of Americans. 

What I have a serious problem with is those who are obese that drag their children into their lifestyle.  The amount of obese children in America is frightening, and parents who act as enablers for their children to make poor choices concerning nutrition and exercise are in my opinion, abusing their kids. 

Personally I don't see why as a society that healthy, height-weight proportionate people should be forced to accept those in society that choose to let themselves go and balloon up.  You can't change the color of your skin, you can't change your sexual preferences of being gay/straight, but you sure as heck have control over what you stuff in your mouth and how often you get off the couch.  I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs. and it's unfair to me to pay the same price on an airplane as the 400 lb. behemoth taking up part of my seating space.  It's unfair to me to pay the same health insurance rates as the morbidly obese person who is addicted to sugar & fast food and far more likely to have health issues as a result of their lifestyle choices.

And I don't get why people who are fit and not interested in someone overweight are viewed as shallow & narrow-minded.  It's a preference as another poster put it - whether you prefer blonds over brunettes, smart over stupid, kinky over vanilla, or fit over fat.  Does that make a sub seeking a Dom shallow too, due to a sexual preference?  Everyone has their hot buttons of what sets their brain off to be attracted to another person, and I think some people are angry because the weight issue happens to be a hot button for some. 


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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 10:49:54 AM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

Original: DavanKael

I will also go on to say that, perhaps most of all, I am revolted to read scientific articles that attribute some birth defects to obesity: yes, some babies are actually physically damaged by the fatness of the woman carrying them.


Davan, can you provide references for these scientific articles, because I've been involved in midwifery for over 25 years and I have NEVER heard of a birth defect caused by the mother's obesity, ever... so if you have a scientific article to back this statement up, I'd be interested in seeing it.


Google is your friend:

Results 1 - 10 of about 179,000 for birth defects related to mother's obesity.

Here's an article from teh NYT referencing a JAMA publication about this very topic.


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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 10:55:38 AM   
lronitulstahp


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i see lots of thin people with obese children...in fact mine are fit and healthy and i'm a big girl. Obesity in children isn't part of obese people's "lifestyle"(i find that funny....maybe there should be a thread about the fact that BDSMers seem more willing to call anything a "lifestyle", but i digress)it's part of an American culture that embraces video games and fast food over spending time playing with one's children, and a square meal. That is across the board, size of the parents aside. We have a problem with people setting boundaries with their kids. Period.
Now as far as you not having problems with obese people, but referring to someone as a "behemoth", in the same post... Well i suppose if behemoth is a warm and cuddly term in your way of thinking, it's cool. i get that alot, it usually goes"I don't have a problem with Black people per se, but you gotta admit they are______(something offensive)___" As if the disclaimer at the beginning somehow softens the blow. Why should you try to backpedal for the sakes of the people reading and posting here? Might as well keep it real.

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 11:24:43 AM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveBlutarsky

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

Original: DavanKael

I will also go on to say that, perhaps most of all, I am revolted to read scientific articles that attribute some birth defects to obesity: yes, some babies are actually physically damaged by the fatness of the woman carrying them.


Davan, can you provide references for these scientific articles, because I've been involved in midwifery for over 25 years and I have NEVER heard of a birth defect caused by the mother's obesity, ever... so if you have a scientific article to back this statement up, I'd be interested in seeing it.


Google is your friend:

Results 1 - 10 of about 179,000 for birth defects related to mother's obesity.

Here's an article from teh NYT referencing a JAMA publication about this very topic.



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mothers+obesity+causing+infant+birth+defects&aq=f&oq=

Here's a google search I did (If you cut and paste the link, including the = at the end, that'll take you right to what I pulled).  The article SlaveBlutarsky noted is a meta-analysis of multiple studies and compiles results. 
Examples of some of the disorders are: spinabifida (Which can be horrendously pervasive), kidney and heart problems, etc. 
As I noted a particular distress over things that seemed to be caused by the actual size of the person, a couple that popped out for me in some quick glances at articles were: stunted limb growth, abdominal organ protrusion. 
And, there's the risk of premature birth and of miscarriage, increased by obesity as well. 
Davan


< Message edited by DavanKael -- 5/16/2009 11:33:10 AM >


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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 11:32:09 AM   
lronitulstahp


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Age is a greater risk factor....but of course no one will go around condemning people for their "Caucasian women over 35, or Black/Hispanic women over 40" Lifestyles.....*rolls eyes*

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 11:34:16 AM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp
Age is a greater risk factor....but of course no one will go around condemning people for their "Caucasian women over 35, or Black/Hispanic women over 40" Lifestyles.....*rolls eyes*


I don't want to yank the thread off of the topic of weight but if you want my opinion on those matters, please feel free to cm me.  :> 
  Davan

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May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 11:41:56 AM   
Daddyluvsitrough


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Well I'm not trying to backpedal about anything.  If I see someone fat on the street, I don't care, they don't affect me.  I go about my day. 

If I am forced to sit next to someone 400+ lbs. on an airplane and I can hardly fit into my seat due to their size, then I have an issue.  And as you pointed out - a thin parent is just as guilty as an obese parent if they are taking their overweight kids to McDonald's. 

And yes, a behemoth is a rather unkind term for a person that weighs 400+ lbs.  Extremely/morbidly obese is a more PC description of someone that size if that makes you feel better.  But if you try to compare weight issues to a race issue - people don't have any control over their skin color, but their weight is a different story. 

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 11:45:40 AM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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quote:

i see lots of thin people with obese children...in fact mine are fit and healthy and i'm a big girl. Obesity in children isn't part of obese people's "lifestyle"(i find that funny....maybe there should be a thread about the fact that BDSMers seem more willing to call anything a "lifestyle", but i digress)it's part of an American culture that embraces video games and fast food over spending time playing with one's children, and a square meal. That is across the board, size of the parents aside. We have a problem with people setting boundaries with their kids. Period.


This is pretty much the scariest thing said on this thread so far.

We can parse and live in the exceptions all day long but the simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority, probably well above 95% of obesity, is due to simple lifestyle choices.

Regardless of the genetic and environmental reasons for the problem the simple fact of the matter is that people aren't doing what it takes to solve the problem. People can come op with all the excuses and platitudes for why they are fat, some of which are completely legitimate, but cancer, heart disease and diabetes don't care about the reasons why people are fat.

For every person with a thyroid condition that affects their ability to lose weight, there are probably 90 people who just can't put the friggin Ho Hos down and go for a walk.

As a society we have 80% of people who don't meet the minimum activity requirements, right there is a huge part of the problem. Even with poor eating habits, a lot more people would be a lot healthier if they got out and walked at a brisk pace for 45-60 minutes a couple times a week. But they'd rather make excuses to rationalize their poor choices.

Someone mentioned weight gain due to anti depressants as a factor, which is interesting because I would hazard a guess that a major reason people go on antidepressants is due to their obesity/diet. There have been numerous studies done on diet/carb intake and serotonin levels as well as other brain chemistry issues. Furthermore, studies have shown that people with depression sticking to a prescribed basic diet and exercise program (neother of which was outlandish if memory serves) had much greater improvements in their mental states than people who had started on a reginmen of antidepressents.

Obviously a very non scientific example, but does anyone think that it's a coincidence that the US has such a high incidence of both obesity and antidepressant use?



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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 11:51:06 AM   
lronitulstahp


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i think it's more of a comprehension issue...nevermind.

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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 11:58:14 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough
you try to compare weight issues to a race issue - people don't have any control over their skin color, but their weight is a different story. 

The point, though is that you don't know the medical history of the person you're looking at.  For that matter, you don't know the race of the person you're looking at, either.  Remember when Tiger Woods said he was Asian?  Barack Obama could say that he's white.  A friend of mine is very dark skinned, but she has white ancestors, and she practices Voudon, so she refuses to call herself "black" or "African American" because she believes that would be denying or disrespecting some of her ancestors, who are important in that religion.

Your posts reek of a willingness to judge someone's interior by glancing at their exterior.  That's a dangerous characteristic to possess. 


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 12:17:34 PM   
hopelessfool


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough

What I do have an issue with is accepting this as the new norm of society that we're moving towards being more fat & lazy than previous generations of Americans. 

What I have a serious problem with is those who are obese that drag their children into their lifestyle.  The amount of obese children in America is frightening, and parents who act as enablers for their children to make poor choices concerning nutrition and exercise are in my opinion, abusing their kids. 




Should i point out now that its only in the last 20 years that people actually look into what they eat. Previous generations filled their children with saturated fat and other nasty things like pesticides for their bodies. Its why so many 40 and 50 year olds have heart problems be them fat or thin. Heart Disease is mostly caused by plaque build up from eating saturated fat like butter, whole milk, and animal fat. I hardly consume ANY of them there for my diet is rather good for my weight.

Now a days people eat more healthy in a larger consensus then 50 years ago. Fast food while loaded with calories, is no longer filled with as much saturated fat. And The diet my thin older relatives eat is well beyond disgusting. A meal that is more then 70% cooked in lard, no matter how fucking skinny your are ISNT healthy.

< Message edited by hopelessfool -- 5/16/2009 12:20:56 PM >


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