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RE: Caring traits of a Master - 5/18/2009 6:16:46 PM

leadership527

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Obviously I should've worded my statement more clearly although honestly, it was just a throwaway. What I meant to say is...

If you want to really see me be arrogant and/or rude, listen to this... I think somewhere upwards of 50% of most relationships I've seen personally are fundamentally adversarial. In other words, I think most relationships are doomed from the get go as people struggle to take as much from the other person as they can while offering up as little in return as they can manage.

To your second point, I agree. We are all caught sometimes within our own perceptual framework. I'm still not sure it changes the sadness of the point though. In fact, the whole idea that two people in a M/s relationship would be adversarial is... well... ouch.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Caring traits of a Master - 5/18/2009 6:26:26 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I should've know better since I pretty much routinely agree with you. I cop to reading too fast.

Can I use this to guilt-trip a 750 Gb external hard drive out of you? How about a cheesecake? No?

But, yes...I too find myself normally nodding right along when your posts come up.

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RE: Caring traits of a Master - 5/18/2009 6:35:37 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
... it is my general perception that both in and out of the BDSM community, somewhere well above 50% of couples are actually engaged in some sort of adversarial relationship as opposed to a partnership. How's that for rude and arrogant?

I'm gonna chime in one this one too.

What makes your point, I think, is the fact that many people perhaps unknowingly put the cart in front of the horse in terms of the 'altruistic' aspect of the partnership. Underneath, each relationship is an agreed upon construct of mutual use. It's not pretty to refer to it as such, but what empowers a relationship that isn't in denial about that fact is the open honesty about what needs/wishes each individual wants to have met and whether both parties comfortably fit being able to supply that to the other. The partnership, from that point, comes together based on a trust that those parameters and that delicate quid pro quo is being satisfied...or, at least, that the other acts with sincere intentions in helping it become satisfied.

The adversarial part of so many relationships, it seems to me, comes from not having actually arrived at a trusting 'contract' of mutual use...where each person in the relationship has to be their own agent to exact what they want out of the relationship because they don't actually trust that the other will (or can) provide it to them...and yet both people are each there trying to coax/maneuver/extract it out of the other. It runs against any "team" concept of a relationship.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 5/18/2009 6:37:28 PM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Caring traits of a Master - 5/18/2009 6:45:37 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Obviously I should've worded my statement more clearly although honestly, it was just a throwaway. What I meant to say is...

If you want to really see me be arrogant and/or rude, listen to this... I think somewhere upwards of 50% of most relationships I've seen personally are fundamentally adversarial. In other words, I think most relationships are doomed from the get go as people struggle to take as much from the other person as they can while offering up as little in return as they can manage.

To your second point, I agree. We are all caught sometimes within our own perceptual framework. I'm still not sure it changes the sadness of the point though. In fact, the whole idea that two people in a M/s relationship would be adversarial is... well... ouch.

By and large, I tend to agree with your first statement (in italics), it is sad and in some cases inevitable I fear that they are doomed and other relationships both may have may well be doomed too until and unless they grow and are able to bring more to a relationship allowing for some give and take. I say this looking across the spectrum of human relationships at least in the Western World.

On the second point. you may well be right however I have a feeling and some knowledge of some forms of adversarial, albeit friendly competition can be a most healthy thing provided as long as the two involved keep it light. For example, I enjoy it if a slave can beat me in some frivolous endeavour and in fact I will likely seek said slave to help me improve my game. I do find it good for slaves to see and realise that their Master or Mistress is not a God, Goddess or even perfect. It makes us human with human frailties and failings, What matters is for the Master or Mistress to handle their short comings in a mature and correct way so that others do not receive flack or other damage. I imagine there are those Dominants who will cast their hands skywards and cry "Foul/Fowl" ~chuckles~ but that is their right.

Wanders off muttering in chook language: "Bawk bawk bawk.Bk bk bk bk Bawk......." Looking over his shoulder incase he gets arrested for using foul/fowl language...

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Post #: 44

RE: Caring traits of a Master - 5/18/2009 6:56:41 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Can I use this to guilt-trip a 750 Gb external hard drive out of you? How about a cheesecake? No?

Sure... knock yourself out... I'm feeling the burden of guilt already. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
What makes your point, I think, is the fact that many people perhaps unknowingly put the cart in front of the horse in terms of the 'altruistic' aspect of the partnership. Underneath, each relationship is an agreed upon construct of mutual use. It's not pretty to refer to it as such, but what empowers a relationship that isn't in denial about that fact is the open honesty about what needs/wishes each individual wants to have met and whether both parties comfortably fit being able to supply that to the other. The partnership, from that point, comes together based on a trust that those parameters and that delicate quid pro quo is being satisfied...or, at least, that the other acts with sincere intentions in helping it become satisfied.

How interesting. I hadn't carried it that far in my head. I had just kind of separated the world into givers and takers and I try to be a giver myself and I'm only interested in givers as partners. I suspect that aside from your analytical process oriented view, there are also some basic traits at play like, for instance, generosity and selfishness. Frankly, I've never been all that interested in why someone is in the 'taker' camp. I just know I don't want anything to do with them as a friend or life partner.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Post #: 45

RE: Caring traits of a Master - 5/18/2009 7:29:02 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tslaveboy

I've recently been watching some male domination videos. I'm starting to notice that some male Dommes seem to care about the experience that their female subs are having. I always thought that the male Doms just took what they wanted. That the female submissives just had to accept his dominant role.

I'm still learning. Maybe someone could set me straight on this. Could someone explain the dynamics of Dom/sub relations.

Those concepts are not mutually exclusive. You can care about her <in my case> and still take what you want when you want it. and not be concerned about how she feels about what your having her do.

BadOne

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Post #: 46