evolving from D/s to M/s? (Full Version)

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Sirandlittle1 -> evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/6/2006 2:08:40 PM)

Hello everyone,
i am curious to hear from those of you, who have journeyed along the continuum within a relationship from D/s to M/s within a relationship perhaps, rather than solo journey.

The reason i ask, is that, ive never considered myself a slave. It just doesnt seem to be where i am coming from. It seems, er, foreign to me.
My Sir though, he views D/s and M/s as a continuum that maybe travelled along. We are a D/s couple that live together. Its only been a year of us co-habiting and its going really well. The level of ease with which we each live out our personal roles in this, just gets easier and easier, as our ability to communicate improves, our level of skill improves.

What im wondering is, has anyone tried to change from submissive to slave? if so, how did you find this change? what were its challenges and rewards?

I am not necessarily right, as i have no perspective to come from, but i suspect that it would be different, if you had say, been a submissive in a previous relationship, then ventured into another relationship with a M as a slave. Rather than progress 'within' the relationship you have allready of D/s.

The request to call him Master during a scene, has raised this for me. I wonder, how would i cope at being a slave? how would that work for us? what would the differences be? etc.

We live a private life, we do not socialise with others in this lifestyle, except on the internet. So experiencing a 'scene' with a master is not on the cards, nor is experiencing a 'scene' with a slave for him. Whatever comes in or out of our relationship, must be introduced within it, by us alone.

Did all the slaves here within a M/s relationship start out in that relationship as slaves?

or, for those reading, did any Master's/Mistresses start out as something less intense. I guess so, after all, you can hardly begin by calling yourself a master can you.

And for those who have made a progression in your journey, why? what were the needs within that had to be addressed, that were missing in a D/s relationship.

Badly worded. Sorry, i hope some can decipher what the heck im on about.

little1



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/6/2006 2:30:24 PM)

Since there is no clear consensus on what is a sub, slave, or the difference between them, no one can really explain if you can go from one to the other or how.

I think most people just like to make slave cooler/better/deeper so they say that they change from one to the other. Since only you and the people you are involved with have to agree with you, that's fine. It doesn't matter what you call yourself- plenty of people will tell you that you are wrong.

Define what they mean to you. Define where you want to go in your life.

I have found in my relationships that I was always owned...but that I became more adept as a slave as time went on. There is a progression of understanding what being owned means to you.



proudsub -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/6/2006 2:52:31 PM)

quote:

The request to call him Master during a scene, has raised this for me.


Many submissives call their doms "Master" without being slaves. I don't think it's a matter of progressing from sub to slave, a relationship is whatever you and your dom want it to be.



Sirandlittle1 -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/6/2006 4:03:56 PM)

LA, thankyou for your response. I wonder if you could expand upon what you meant by,
"There is a progression of understanding what being owned means to you."
I am intrigued. Although i can understand feeling you belong 'with' someone, i dont at this point in time, understand how you could feel you belong 'to' someone.

Proud sub, thankyou, i realise that our relationship can be whatever we both decide it should be, and could even make up our own neogolistic vocabulary for what it is that we do.
But from within my head, a slave has no limits, whereas a sub does. For me, that is a BIG difference. One requires far more faith and trust than the other. To give up all control over everything, is my 'fantasy image' of what a slave is. I of course have no real idea things are.

little1



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/6/2006 6:21:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle
"There is a progression of understanding what being owned means to you."
little

It's something like the difference between reading about a lab experiment and then actually being in the lab. Sure, you get it and you can do it and know your stuff whether you've been in the lab or not. But there's an entirely different perspective that comes with the hands on portion of it.

Similiarly, yeah you're owned and you know what it measn to you and it works...but once you go through things together you reach a new perspective, you become more of who you are and more understanding of yourself within that relationship.



SweetEscravo -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/6/2006 6:42:31 PM)

You may want to try it in a more casual sence before launching into a scene or adding to your relationship. It may sound weird, but try saying it in front of a mirror when you're alone, just to hear the word and reflect on it. Or, try it in a non-sexual time. You need to decide for yourself when and where you're comfortable with this. Just wet your feet at first; there is no need to leap right in. And don't feel like that is a goal you eventually have to reach. Although the Master/slave lifestyle is wonderful for some, it just isn't in everyone. I know I will never be a 24/7 slave, but I am still a happy submissive. Just start slow and have fun with it.



Sirandlittle1 -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 2:39:57 AM)

i just cant comprehend, how i can be owned?

there are times, when i 'know' that i belong with him, become joined with him, the corny two becoming one even feeling, but owned?

Becoming a slave is not something i conciously am aware i seek. From my perception of what one is, i am not a slave. I struggle sufficiently with 24/7 D/s, with my gob getting me into so much trouble. Id make a dreadful slave.

I can certainly am more self aware than i have felt before, about who i am, who i am within our relationship, and how we fulfill our needs of a D/s power exchange relatioship. Clearly, there has been some considerable progression in our year, of my understanding of my need for submission. Perhaps i am trying to grapple with a concept i as yet, do not understand enough to comprehend?

little1



sweetpettjenny -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 3:25:02 AM)

You simply are what You and your Master deem you to be whether you call yourself a submissive or slave its for the two of you to decide. I am my Masters slave, as he makes the rules and owns the limits which he holds for me . He owns me , all of me and i don't decide how he uses his property. Just sit down with him and ask what you are to him , he will tell you .



Rayne58 -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 3:55:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1


Becoming a slave is not something i conciously am aware i seek. From my perception of what one is, i am not a slave. I struggle sufficiently with 24/7 D/s, with my gob getting me into so much trouble. Id make a dreadful slave.


little1


Master and I have been living together for two years. I have a bit of a gob on me too and sometimes I struggle with my submissiveness......I don't think I could ever call myself a slave it's just not in me. However a Dom friend of ours asked me if I would do anything Master told me to do (within reason of course [8|] ) I said yes of course and our friend said that he would consider me a slave in that respect. So I am more confused than ever!



collieloveruk -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 4:36:56 AM)

maybe im wrong here and i know someones bound to disagree (thats what makes this subject so much fun) i am submissive in the bedroom, i know that and yes i will do more or less everything my partner asks, i like the having no control during sex and being punished for being badly submissive, and of course that sometimes sneaks into outside the house and the bedroom but it is always in a sexual context and only because it makes me horny........

but i have no desire to become a slave to be punished for not having hoovered behind the sofa that day or any other variable (if i havent hoovered behind the sofa and it pisses you off the hoover is in the cupboard under the stairs ....... and if it bothers you that much and you dont want to do it then pay a cleaner) ........... i do think (well for me anyway) there is a complete distinction between the two.........

and as men have no sense of colour (how many times have i heard peach is a fruit an aubergine is a vegetable not a colour) i have no wish to let him pick colour schemes (and no i havent got peach and aubergine walls lol) , or decide that he really needs a sports car cos hes reached the male menopause ......... then i have to get a taxi back from shopping cos theres no bloody boot (trunk) in the car, men are crap at practical things ........... ( i feel another slating coming on here lol ) and there are just sooooooo many other things that men really have no idea of and im gonna take absolutely no notice but yes if you insist i will have a discussion about whether u think lime green and pink is a good colour scheme.............

now although i like looking after my partner making his tea and such like after his hard day *coff* at work... i have no intention if ive made tea of washing up as well, and i expect a nice cuppa on a sunday morning. i have no desire whatsoever to pass over all my worldly possessions or my soul to anyone, Im way too independent for that and im afraid if some bloke told me to sit on the floor naked and lick his feet cos he didnt want me on the furniture or sleep in the corner of the room chained up then he would be out the door before he could blink.

I am not a slave and never will be......... though turn the lights off .................................. lol........... my opinion (not that it counts for anything as im *just a sub*) is i have my own mind and im gonna use it and if he doesnt like it he knows where the door is, im too rebellious to let anyone completely rule my life............ or have i got the slave thing wrong too? (and please dont take offence it just doesnt *do it* for me)



Mercnbeth -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 7:35:57 AM)

quote:

Did all the slaves here within a M/s relationship start out in that relationship as slaves?



Even if all the slaves here started out the relationships they have as slave, it still would be a completely unique experience for those involved from what anyone else's relationships are and will ever be. While we can hope to gain some insight from another’s perspective, we can’t necessarily apply the aspects of their journey to our own. We don't ALL feel, perceive or are satisfied by the same things in the same ways.

this slave's journey is one of service-to be useful and pleasing to Master. Neither relationship—D/s or M/s are inherently “better”, “superior”, nor “deeper”, more “real” or “true” THAN the other—they are only those things in relationship to one’s self or one’s own path, not in comparison to someone else and the relationship they have—e.g., for this slave, the M/s relationship she shares with Master is deeper, better suited, all of that wonderful stuff than if our relationship was strictly D/s, not OTHERS D/s relationships. what one might think are variances, or progression of a single concept-submission, someone else views as two separate things, one a submissive role within a relationship, the other a slave.

quote:

or, for those reading, did any Master's/Mistresses start out as something less intense. I guess so, after all, you can hardly begin by calling yourself a master can you.


this slave sought a Dom, not a self proclaimed Master and represented herself as a submissive, not an unowned slave, when searching for a Dom. there was no preconceived fluffy-romance-novel-knight-in-shining-armor-uber-Master in mind--this slave sought a man, imperfections and all, decent, honorable, self-confident, sexy, fun-loving and sure of what he was looking for. Only after meeting and communicating was the concept of becoming His slave something that this slave considered~and consider it she did, after many moons of baring this slave’s soul and discussions with Master, it was agreed that we would have a Master/slave relationship with no specific requirement that this slave call Him “Master”.

this slave can’t emphasize enough how much we shared with each other before making the commitment to be in an M/s relationship, instead of a D/s one…the distinction to us and how that works out in our relationship is conscious, intentional, thought-out and agreed upon mutually. it was not something that evolved over time as our relationship deepened and through no conscious effort on either of our parts.



ownedgirlie -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 8:06:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: collieloveruk

maybe im wrong here and i know someones bound to disagree (thats what makes this subject so much fun) i am submissive in the bedroom, i know that and yes i will do more or less everything my partner asks, i like the having no control during sex and being punished for being badly submissive, and of course that sometimes sneaks into outside the house and the bedroom but it is always in a sexual context and only because it makes me horny........

but i have no desire to become a slave to be punished for not having hoovered behind the sofa that day or any other variable (if i havent hoovered behind the sofa and it pisses you off the hoover is in the cupboard under the stairs ....... and if it bothers you that much and you dont want to do it then pay a cleaner) ........... i do think (well for me anyway) there is a complete distinction between the two.........

and as men have no sense of colour (how many times have i heard peach is a fruit an aubergine is a vegetable not a colour) i have no wish to let him pick colour schemes (and no i havent got peach and aubergine walls lol) , or decide that he really needs a sports car cos hes reached the male menopause ......... then i have to get a taxi back from shopping cos theres no bloody boot (trunk) in the car, men are crap at practical things ........... ( i feel another slating coming on here lol ) and there are just sooooooo many other things that men really have no idea of and im gonna take absolutely no notice but yes if you insist i will have a discussion about whether u think lime green and pink is a good colour scheme.............

now although i like looking after my partner making his tea and such like after his hard day *coff* at work... i have no intention if ive made tea of washing up as well, and i expect a nice cuppa on a sunday morning. i have no desire whatsoever to pass over all my worldly possessions or my soul to anyone, Im way too independent for that and im afraid if some bloke told me to sit on the floor naked and lick his feet cos he didnt want me on the furniture or sleep in the corner of the room chained up then he would be out the door before he could blink.

I am not a slave and never will be......... though turn the lights off .................................. lol........... my opinion (not that it counts for anything as im *just a sub*) is i have my own mind and im gonna use it and if he doesnt like it he knows where the door is, im too rebellious to let anyone completely rule my life............ or have i got the slave thing wrong too? (and please dont take offence it just doesnt *do it* for me)


i love when people assume slavery means we do not think, or use our minds. No, i was not offended by your post, but that is the beauty of a deep submission - to have an intelligent, well used mind, and surrender it to someone else as required. i consider myself highly intelligent, yet before my Master found me i didn't use my brain all that much. He has taught me to think, analyze, consider - in other words, becoming slave to him resulted in using my mind more than i ever did.

Some people are submissive, others are not. There is no right or wrong. But please do not confuse submission with a blank and unused mind - it is far from that! What it requires of a person to give themselves over, to have boundaries challenged and pushed, to do what one would otherwise not do....means mind expansion and growth.



collieloveruk -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 8:26:12 AM)

quote:

love when people assume slavery means we do not think, or use our minds. No, i was not offended by your post, but that is the beauty of a deep submission - to have an intelligent, well used mind, and surrender it to someone else as required. i consider myself highly intelligent, yet before my Master found me i didn't use my brain all that much. He has taught me to think, analyze, consider - in other words, becoming slave to him resulted in using my mind more than i ever did.

Some people are submissive, others are not. There is no right or wrong. But please do not confuse submission with a blank and unused mind - it is far from that! What it requires of a person to give themselves over, to have boundaries challenged and pushed, to do what one would otherwise not do....means mind expansion and growth.


Please dont assume that i actually assumed that you have no mind everyone has a mind ........ Im trying to understand here not wishing to knock anyone for the decisions you make ............. maybe I'm not really submissive at all maybe i should try going over to *the other side* [;)] i just want to have a say in how my life is run not just accept what someone tells me because they are *the boss* maybe it will be considered a fault on my part by some ..................... because although i have the desire to give my heart and my body my mind and soul will never completely *belong* to anyone though i may share some parts of it for mutual pleasure ...................... [:)]





ownedgirlie -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 8:40:13 AM)

No worries, i didnt take it as a knocking. Your "I have my own mind and I'm gonna use it" is what i was responding to.

As for me, i had an inherent need to submit most of my life, but i never knew what it was. i just thought i was "different."

Perhaps this might help. my Master gives me the right to speak my thoughts, feelings, desires to him. In fact, he requires it, so that he can understand me better. He uses that information to run me in the way he sees most appropriate. If i present myself intelligently and appropriately, i am always allowed to suggest, or to express a preference in a given area. i am allowed more freedoms than some slaves, less freedoms than others. It all depends on the Master and his preferences, and how well he knows his girl.

It takes a lot of work to "hand it all over", but it is my need to satisfy him that drives me. Over time, i came to want what he wants. There is much to say about how a Master or Dom develops his girl, and about how driven she is to please. There is no "right" level for everyone. i'm not sure everyone starts out on this path of submission "ready" to hand it all over. It is a journey...a discovery...an evolution of self.

i have a Dominant friend who likes to say: "The suggest-so is yours. The say-so is mine."

i hope this helps...?



Tapestry -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 9:24:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: collieloveruk

i just want to have a say in how my life is run not just accept what someone tells me because they are *the boss*


And this is precisely why you choose your partner very carefully, and only after talking and sharing and communicating and getting to know one another.

There are people who choose to serve a Master with no love or romance between them, and they have clear contracts for behavior on both sides.

There are others, like me, who would not consider being a slave for someone they weren't deeply in love with. What works well for me is that Master makes the rules, and i serve Him, yet He always seeks my input, and even if He doesn't always choose my way, I'm always encouraged to give my opinion. This is yet one more way to serve Him, using my mind and intellect (one of the things that first attracted Him to me) to help Him think through situations, consider all the angles, and make the best decision. Master is a very benevolent, loving, and even somewhat indulgent man. He loves me, wants what's best for me, wants me to be the best i can be, and so it's easy to trust Him with decisions about how my life is run.

Every couple creates the relationship that works best for them. There are simply no rules for D/s or M/s, it's whatever you both agree to, and you call it whatever you wish to call it. No right or wrong, just what you want it to be.



starshineowned -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 10:04:28 AM)

Greetings..~smiles~

You yourself or you and your Dom have already come to the conclusion that what you share between you is D/s. Stop and think about how you both came to that decision? Why do you both feel it is just a D/s relationship?

You are already showing that you feel there is a distinction between living a D/s life and living a M/s life. How did you arrive at what those distinctions were?

Point is..if those distinctions are valid to you..thats all that counts because your idea of what a sub is or a slave is will not always concur (most probably) with others as they define it for their own relationship.

No way is a better way simply by matter of a label. The only way that is better is what ultimately is working for you and yours, and what you choose to call things, and what is entailed for each of those things.


starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



petcerina -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 5:37:02 PM)

i plan on answering all of your questions, but they will probably be out of order.

i have actually recently gone from being a submissive with my Master to being a slave. For me, a slave would be someone who trusted her Master completely and fully giving Him complete control over whatever He wanted to have control over. she would surrender herself to Him. It would also mean a general better behavior because of this trust. i made this journey because i wanted to. It has always been a deep need in me to serve and to strive to serve better. i always thought of my hard limits and misbehaviors as obstacles to my service to Him. i wanted to be able to behave in a way that would reduce those obstacles as much as possible and the only way i saw that happening was by becoming a slave. It wasn't that things were missing, it was just that the obstacles were frustrating and unrewarding. i wanted them to go away but i was having trouble doing it on my own. i had trouble trusting that much. my Master is the first person i have ever been able to trust completely and fully. i had contemplated being a slave for years before the transformation actually came. One day i was on the phone with my Master and slipped into a state that was close to sub space. It was in this space during that day that i realized that i trusted Him completely. i also had the answer to a question i had been asking myself for the longest time, "What could i do to make Master happy?" The answer was "Obey and be happy." my behavior has changed since then. i am better behaved and i have learned to remind myself whenever i get scared or worried about what will happen to trust Him. i know this all sounds like things that a sub has, but for me, this was my transformation. i decided to give myself to Him fully, trust Him completely, and obey Him eternally. It was His desires that mattered now, not my own. The other questions that you were asking about, " I wonder, how would i cope at being a slave? how would that work for us? what would the differences be? etc." These answers can only be answered within yourself and between you and your Master. The challenges i faced in becoming a slave were plentiful. Many obstacles, many talks, many frustrations. In the end, it was about finding that part of me that truly knew all i wanted and had to do was obey. i know it sounds simple, but it was difficult for me to find it. i hope this helps :). Good luck on your journey if you decide to take it. i also agree with your Master about it being a continuum.



Sirandlittle1 -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 5:40:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie


i have a Dominant friend who likes to say: "The suggest-so is yours. The say-so is mine."

this is brilliant, and sooooo true!



Sirandlittle1 -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 6:07:57 PM)

Thankyou all so much.
From the responses here i have identified the questions i had floating in my head. My being asked to address him as Master in play, provoked a panick response that our relationship of D/s was on the move, perhaps toward my perception of M/s.

The beauty of many peoples view point response, is i can see, clearly in other's posts, how far along 'our' D/s path we have travelled.

He always welcomes my input, and we will often tackle things as a team. I am not a submissive person, im a alpha female. Only He has evoked my submissive response. Despite seeking a Dom or Master before, it just wouldnt happen.
My motivation to please my Sir, is not altruistic. If he is happy, then We are happy, and the relationship is roses. So my gain is best served by serving him, pleasing him, and obeying him.

I realise now, that we are, what 'we are'. And any defining name we choose is ok. But, from reading the above responses, there does seem to be a general assumption that M/s is more control than D/s. ie. no limits.

I too have chosen a man, faults and all, to go with me, woman, faults and all. He is a loving dominant, who would always consider me in his decision making process. Were he not to, i would become defiant. Especially in certain areas, like my children from a previous relationship. Only once, has a request come from him that i did not feel as a mother, i wanted to obey. So i did not and took the consequences. The following communication we had, brought with it, a apology from him, he had gotten it wrong. He was fallable. Exactly like the human i expect him to be. In that instance, push came to shove, and i gave a clear, NO.
I was concerned when i posted, that were i to accept slavery to him as a master, that i would not be able to say NO. But really, that is never going to happen for me, when it counts, i will defy anyone, Dom/Master/God whoever. That is who i am. Any Dom i may of nabbed that could not accept that the submissive is right occasionally and they are wrong, would never of lasted with me past the first few meetings.
Were i to ever have a master, it would be this Dom. So its not a problem.

thankyou all for your contributions. I had not wanted to use the title 'master', even in play only, because i did not understand its use, meaning, implication, or possible consequence. I am grateful for the ability to 'think out loud' in this forum.

regards
little1



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: evolving from D/s to M/s? (2/7/2006 6:33:02 PM)

My local partner really gets a charge out of me calling him master. I am highly resistant to use it in a casual sense (although I can use collars as easily as someone uses a towel). It took a lot of discussion with myself, as well as discussions with other female slaves for him to understand my reluctance and perspective.

Words don't have to mean the same thing to everyone, not even in the same relationship. But with time and work and communication, everyone can understand what it means to everyone else and respect that.



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