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Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/18/2009 5:43:04 PM

DemonKia

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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A thread about BDSM & communicating. Tips, techniques, what works for you, what doesn't, pet peeves, needs, requirements. Got links, ideas, theories? Share 'em . . . . . .

Since this place is sorta all about communicating. & since communication's such an integral part of 'successful', 'effective', & etc 'vanilla relationships'. & since, by wide acclamation of these boards' contributors, the consensus seems to be that communication is even more important to the conducting of BDSM relationships, let's talk communication . . . .

I've got an initial posting that I'm working on simultaneous & will post immediately after starting this thread, & then I'll be checking back in on it, posting more as it comes to me, & so on . . . .

_____________________________

Snarko ergo sum.

The Verbossinator

Post #: 1

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/18/2009 5:46:56 PM

DemonKia

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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For the following I've observed this stuff first in my real life interactions, developed some of these ideas & perspective from decades of working at being a writer & a talker (particular subsets of the various occupations of communication) . . . . . . & largely, I noticed this stuff in me, first, & then started noticing it in others . . . ..

All human communication, in my opinion, starts with the individual's communications with self. & it seems to be the case that people are capable of 'ignoring' their own internal communications, of not hearing themselves, & that this 'deafness' can interfere with their ability to hear the communications of others . . ..

I've found one of my most powerful communication tools to be staying out of 'you territory' & sticking pretty meticulously to 'I statements' . . . . .. I know virtually nothing about you, but I know loads about me, & vice versa.

One important impediment I regularly notice to effective communication is that there is frequently a significant difference between the intent behind a communication, & how the audience perceives / receives that communication. & the more the original communicator gets hung up on only seeing their own intent & refusing to 'hear' other perspectives, the more 'clotted' that communication seems to get . . . . . . Communication is a process rather than a goal, with feedback essential to 'getting anywhere'.

Another one I've noticed is that many people would benefit from slowing down & reading carefully their own words & the words of others. Especially if this can be combined with working on being 'emotionally detached' & 'non-reactive' . . . . . . .

We have a rather hazy take on the universe 'out there', the world outside of ourselves, so . . .. . . Squishy, wishy-washy quantifiers are our friends. I save my ass all the time by liberally sprinkling plenty of 'kind ofs', 'maybes', 'sort ofs', 'seems likes', 'tends tos', & such like thru what I say, & I work to limit my use of absolutes: always, everyone, & so on . . . . . .

Judgementals versus descriptives: this is how I've started thinking of this particular dichotomy. It's of particular relevance towards my fiction writing ambitions -- judgements are boring writing (even when colorful characters have judgements they're far more powerful used sparingly), & descriptives make writing happen. But it has it's implications for more ordinary kinds of communication. Lots of language is loaded with emotional charge, but we do get to make a choice in whether we react to that language or not. For me, to re-act is to give my power to some outer entity, & I try to be as deliberate as possible about handing my power off in general . . . . . . . The offense is as much (sometimes even more) in the taking as in the giving, all too often . . . . . .

I tend to view communication as the the building of bridges between the autonomous islands each individual appears to be. We are one of the most social of species, & I believe we pretty much all have deep yearnings to 'connect' with the other, with communication being an essential tool for 'getting there' . . . . . .

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 2

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/18/2009 6:00:55 PM

leadership527

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Yup, I pretty much agree with everythign you wrote DemonKia. Looking at the communication problem from an entirely different angle though, I'll offer up these thoughts.

Honesty: Required to look inside yourself and see that which you don't want to see. As you correctly said, the first step to solid communication is understanding where YOU'RE at.

Strength: Required to deal with whatever it is you find. Also handy for hearing and comprehending the more unflattering things your partner says.

Courage: To expose your weaknesses, fears, concerns, your very self to another person.

Compassion: Needed to respond properly to the other person's courage.

In short, good communication in my opinion happens pretty naturally when you're talking about a solid, well balanced set of individuals.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 3

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/18/2009 7:28:38 PM

Joseff

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Solid, well ballanced? Well, we at least like to think we are. I have noticed a tendency to view plainly stated facts as judgements. eg: Statement- We are all looking for that perfect person. Response- What's wrong with wanting a perfect relationship? I understand that we all have our individual viewpoints, we all percieve things slightly differently, and usually as colored by our own experiances, knowledge, and preconceptions. The trick of good communications is to get beyond those little sticking points with language that is clear and unambiguous. Sometimes, while attempting this, I get a little wordy and begin to wonder if I'm making any sense at all. The underlying point is that words have meaning, and if we attempt to better understand the words, we can be much better at communicating.

_____________________________

This is gonna hurt...

Joseff

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 4

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/18/2009 8:39:46 PM

MissJanice2

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Joined: 3/4/2009
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The best thing that works for us is plain out communication. We will take a minute and ask each other's opinions on certain things. That way, it does not come off as such a big deal.

Best Wishes,

Mistress_Jan

_____________________________

Do not try to measure weight loss by pounds. Eat healthy and let it work slowly to achieve your goal.

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 5

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/18/2009 9:14:21 PM

IrishMist

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http://www.collarchat.com/m_2331509/mpage_1/key_communication/tm.htm#2331509

One of the best threads I have ever seen on this very subject

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 6

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/18/2009 9:50:29 PM

ZenDragoness

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From: Berlin/Germany
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DemonKia, i agree mostly with what you wrote and what tasteful colors:-).

In my first long time relationship we came after half a year to a situation where every conversation turned into a war.

We were very sad, because we loved each other very strongly.

One night we discovered by chance a technique we later learned is in psychology quite normal. We mirrored each other, we mirrored not mean, but as accurate as possible. And we started laughing because seeing ourselves through the brain and the eyes of the other helped us to understand where our problems lay.

A very successful technique that stayed with us, all our 16 years together.

_____________________________

aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 7

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 3:00:19 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

I've got an initial posting that I'm working on simultaneous & will post immediately after starting this thread, & then I'll be checking back in on it, posting more as it comes to me, & so on . . . .

In addition to what has been posted, I'll add that listening is a skill that needs some work. There are times when noise is heard but there is no focus on the content; at other times, the content is heard but diluted due to running a reply through the mind while they're in mid sentence; at other times, the content is important but we're aligning their words with our own experiences.

Then there is listening in its purest form, which is simply listening to the content without applying any personal experience or thinking of any reply; it is focusing solely on the content. There should always be a pause between dialogue as you consider the words after the person has finished speaking.

It may sound obvious, but without focusing solely on the content, the nature of the conversation will always be diluted and something will be lost in translation.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 8

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 5:51:16 AM

CatdeMedici

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With the advent of the internet and cyber this and ipoop that--we have forgotten the basic ways ALL people send and receive messages:

Audio, visual and kinesthetic (touch)---that has not changed--we assume that because "everyone" has a computer, that everyone can clearly send and receive information and I think that's where we get hung up--if someone was in front of us, we'd look at visual cues, be more engaging, ask more questions--but when texting or chatting or emailing, we (A) don't do the probing we should (B) don't take the time to expound as we should
Not everyone is comfortable in all kinds of communication styles--find out how the other person communicates and thats the start of ,IMHO, open communication and dialogue.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 9

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 9:37:26 AM

missturbation

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quote:

In addition to what has been posted, I'll add that listening is a skill that needs some work. There are times when noise is heard but there is no focus on the content; at other times, the content is heard but diluted due to running a reply through the mind while they're in mid sentence; at other times, the content is important but we're aligning their words with our own experiences.

From recent experience i'm going to second this. If only i had listened to what Sir was actually saying instead of hearing what i thought he was saying recent trouble could have been avoided.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 10

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 11:48:21 AM

ZenDragoness

Posts: 372
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From: Berlin/Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

Then there is listening in its purest form, which is simply listening to the content without applying any personal experience or thinking of any reply; it is focusing solely on the content. There should always be a pause between dialogue as you consider the words after the person has finished speaking.

That is very good observed and it leads me to the best form of listening, but it is hard to describe, because English is not my first language. Many years ago i noticed that with good old friends conversations turned after the initial round 2 hours into a trancelike communication (no drugs!), where we synchronized and reached a deeper understanding. Kind of spirit exchange more, than factual information. But in my experience it needs having some life time spend together.

_____________________________

aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 11

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 12:01:29 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
From recent experience i'm going to second this. If only i had listened to what Sir was actually saying instead of hearing what i thought he was saying recent trouble could have been avoided.

Heh, don't feel too bad, we all do this... sadly way too often. It's not easy to get out of your own head and into someone else's. In fact, in my opinion this is such a common failing of all humans that the only real recourse for myself is to do my best to constantly check my work.

One of the rules that I've put in place for myself is that if I find myself telling someone else what they meant by their own words, well, then I know I'm no longer listening correctly. I mean really, the speaker is in the end the ultimate and really only authority on the meaning they invested in their words. People, myself included, actually do this ALL the time... you see it all the time on these boards. The pattern comes out like this...

Speaker 1: I believe thing A
Speaker 2: A is wrong, you should believe B
Speaker 1: Well, I thought I said 'B'.. let me clarify...
Speaker 2: No, you said A

At this point, speaker 2 isn't really in the conversation anymore. Whether or not they are factually correct on the word choice, it is plain that they have no interest in knowing what speaker 1 was actually trying to communicate. So when I start telling Carol what she meant is about the moment I shut up and try to rethink things.

Another thing I do is what I call the sanity test. It goes like this... Carol says something hurtful to me. At that point, I say to myself, "Carol loves me and cares about me deeply. This I know to be true as a bedrock fact. Ergo, it is not possible that her intent was to hurt me. If that's what I heard, then somehow I must've heard it incorrectly."

Yeah, I'm going to pile onto the listening skills bandwagon here myself.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 12

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 12:06:07 PM

ienigma777

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Words...are a pictorial of an image, or a symbol of imagery.

People tend to hear what they want to hear.....anything that falls outside 'their wanting' is usually cast off, and just plainly not heard, not willing accepted nor comprehended.

If you want to communicate; you must also listen to the response, to what you have said; if in doubt ask for clarification.

Computerization has led to the disappearence of seeing the body language of the person, so you get text, without emotion...lol...IMHO...does not constitute communication.

(in reply to Joseff)

Post #: 13

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 12:10:37 PM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

In addition to what has been posted, I'll add that listening is a skill that needs some work. There are times when noise is heard but there is no focus on the content; at other times, the content is heard but diluted due to running a reply through the mind while they're in mid sentence; at other times, the content is important but we're aligning their words with our own experiences.

From recent experience i'm going to second this. If only i had listened to what Sir was actually saying instead of hearing what i thought he was saying recent trouble could have been avoided.

Words to live by...

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 14

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 3:03:08 PM

DemonKia

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Agreed, there was excellent stuff there . . . . . But it was only 2 pages, that was kinda disappointing. Is that all we really have to say about communication, a piddly few pages, when we can devote dozens of pages to stuff that's ostensibly a lot less crucial than communication?

(Not directed at you, IrishMist, more of a generalized question . .. . .)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2331509/mpage_1/key_communication/tm.htm#2331509

One of the best threads I have ever seen on this very subject

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 15

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 3:10:14 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Agreed, there was excellent stuff there . . . . . But it was only 2 pages, that was kinda disappointing. Is that all we really have to say about communication, a piddly few pages, when we can devote dozens of pages to stuff that's ostensibly a lot less crucial than communication?

Yes... now post a thread on punishment and watch it go 40 pages. And you have just learned everything you need to know about what's going wrong in most relationships.

OK, that was perhaps excessively cynical and there's a bit of dark humor tossed in... but there's also a bit of truth in that.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 16

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 3:52:23 PM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Agreed, there was excellent stuff there . . . . . But it was only 2 pages, that was kinda disappointing. Is that all we really have to say about communication, a piddly few pages, when we can devote dozens of pages to stuff that's ostensibly a lot less crucial than communication?

Yes... now post a thread on punishment and watch it go 40 pages. And you have just learned everything you need to know about what's going wrong in most relationships.

OK, that was perhaps excessively cynical and there's a bit of dark humor tossed in... but there's also a bit of truth in that.

In the 2 years i have been on collarme i have seen the occasional thread stay half-assed civil, and i actually learned something from all of those ones LOL (go figure) A thread i am thinking about was on Daddy/littlegirl dynamics. Incidentally, Master is now Daddy to me as well LOL! Ain't life grand!...We grow we learn.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 17

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 4:35:22 PM

oceanwinds

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Communication is a tough one for people, including me. We all come in with formed ideas, concepts of what is best, at least for ourselves, which then totally eludes us from really hearing what another is saying. Then if we hear, can we truly understand, especially if it does not mesh with our own beliefs? Can we communicate without trying to convince another that our beliefs is right for them?

Communication also is attached to many other non-communitive forms that lie buried deep within us. To communicate beyond the surface, can cause our hidden fears, which we try hard to not encounter, explode into our faces. It is then we become defensive and go on to attack.

It is easier to be a part of a lack of communication by finding fault with anything besides ourselves, then to cross that line of uncertainity. You can see this on this message board where pages upon pages are built on a thread that is about the wrongs of people, fakes, etc. Most are comfortable in replying to those threads because it isnt about them, and pointing fingers and other injustices are easier to write about. Oh this happen to me or that, is so easier then to really communicate.

Many people think differently as well on given topics in the BDSM community, and to communicate a different view might not be an easy task for someone to do, so they choose to not communicate.

In all walks of life, and i have walked many at this age, communication has always been a problem for people. Some don't have the skills, some dont feel comfortable, and some just want to drown out other's thoughts. Sometimes people put too much importance on what they have to say, as if their truth is the only truth, and get upset when not heard. People get upset because they have emotions vested in being right. What ashame, because we don't need to be right, we just need to communicate.

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

(in reply to breatheasone)

Post #: 18

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 5:02:47 PM

lateralist1

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Why am I trying to communicate?
What am I trying to communicate?
How am I going to be able to do so with this particular person?
When is the best time to do so ?
Words have vastly different meanings for different people.
Touch can often be a better way of communicating some things for me.
Have I communicated what I intended?
Have I 'heard' the other person?
Listening with a third ear is an important skill as the person I am trying to 'hear' may have difficulty in communicating what they want to.
However empathy can actually be very unhelpful at times for me because everyone isn't like me. So if I use too much empathy I might only 'hear' myself.
When I do hear correctly I then may have to act on the information received.
That's where things get tricky lol.

(in reply to breatheasone)

Post #: 19

RE: Communication, Communication, Communication - 5/19/2009 9:55:09 PM

lilmisssubmiss

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All I gotta say is that communication is key.

My Father has been saying that little phrase to me since I was about three LOL... (and believe me if anyone would know how important communication is it'd be him, considering the kind of job he holds and the relationships he's been through).

I just believe if you feel something ...or something is bothering you ... you need to talk about it. (Then again I am a very external person).

-Also what helps me in thinking of the way to articulate everything I want to come across is to think about how i want to start the conversation and what kind of end results I want/wish for. - From that I try to work out the middle 'fluffy stuff'.
Having an ending and begining really helps me.

< Message edited by lilmisssubmiss -- 5/19/2009 9:57:33 PM >

(in reply to lateralist1)

Post #: 20

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