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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 5:03:27 PM   
oceanwinds


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I do not see from your post how being a realist has it's faults. Being fed a lot of fantasy without a realistic tone has it faults imo. To be upfront from the beginning will give results, in this case it was incompatability in that area.

To address the topic slightly, and getting her hopes up that this might work to me is stupidity. No faults here, that i see. Just not compatable in play.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 5:20:30 PM   
scarlethiney


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Perhaps Steel she was afraid of the pain. Every one does not handle pain the same. Bruises can be painful. 
  
I personally LOVE marks and bruising. It is like a badge I enjoy wearing. I like the pain. The soreness from bruising is a lovely, erotic reminder of why I am sore. I think I was fortunate that Master made pain such a sensual experience for me from day one. Pain was the beginning of such exquisite eroticism it never occurred to me to be afraid of something that felt so incredible or to worry about  any marks or bruising.

I would  have appreciated your honesty.  I'm sorry she did not.

scarlet



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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 5:25:23 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

That said, Yes everything else was perfect she was attracted to both of us, she was okay with the Poly, she understood how I ran my house, she liked the idea that she was a person not an object, she was okay with my sexual kinks and hangups and all it came down to was that if I spank her eventually she will end up with a bruise and on that note she hung up on me.

While she's perfectly entitled to that limit...I'm tempted to go out on a limb saying how that method of interpretation/reaction of hers to normal dialogue might be (or may have been) a powder keg worth avoiding anyways.




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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 5:48:54 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
While she's perfectly entitled to that limit...I'm tempted to go out on a limb saying how that method of interpretation/reaction of hers to normal dialogue might be (or may have been) a powder keg worth avoiding anyways.
Careful there. Normal to whom? Normal to Joe-I-Invented-BDSM or normal to a mostly vanilla girl (or guy in my case). I got it wrong too and to my knowlege I don't have any particular axe to grind in this question at all. In fact, I kind of think highly of Steel so I would've tended towards optimisim and still I interpreted it as him, the dom, saying "If you're mine, you'll let me bruise you if I want and yes, I want to." To which she said, "Well I don't want that." I think there are two potential communications that she might've heard and her responses would've varied wildly depending on which one she actually heard.

This is one reason I am soo glad that Carol and I didn't try to start our M/s relationship from scratch. With both of us exploring together, it was and still is way easy to say, "well, we'll just hold hands and walk this road together." Nobody has any prewritten needs or desires or fears. I've often wondered how differently it would've gone (both better and worse) if we had just met with me as a prospective M and her a prospective s. It certainly would've put a different flavor on the whole thing if nothing else.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 6:04:27 PM   
kallisto


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It sounds to me as though she heard what Steel said but didn't actually listen to it. She heard "when I play I leave bruises".   She didn't hear and  comprehend and think about what he said.   She jumped to a conclusion.  

And it very well could be with her being "new" that she had a fantasy about what she thought she wanted.  When reality was thrust at it (with Steel saying not that he would intentionally bruise her  but with any impact play there is a chance of bruises or other marks), her fantasy just flew out the window.


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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 6:28:03 PM   
marie2


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Going on your clarification here....This is my feeling....and of course this is just my take..
The first thing that came to me was bullshit. Sounds like she was jerking you off with all the other stuff lining up so nicely, and she got herself in over her head....Ok, it was just a phone call but still, I think it's possible she bit off more than she could chew, then didn't know how to pull herself out of it, so she let you feel like you suddenly said something that blew the whole thing.  And then she caused you to feel that what you said was so bad, and so out of line, that she couldn't even express her thoughts to you, instead she hung up the phone and ran off.  
See all the questions you have in your mind?  Maybe I should have waited....Maybe I wasn't sensitive enough....Maybe it was too quick....Maybe this... maybe that....yada yada yada....Bullshit. The fact that you have to second guess yourself because she didn't have the maturity to express herself to you like an adult would be enough for me to write her off and not give her another second of my energy. 

I don't think you said or did anything unreasonable.  I think no matter what, this girl was going to have this type of reaction to something, because it's not about the subject matter; it's about her.

 

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 6:41:36 PM   
smartalex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
While she's perfectly entitled to that limit...I'm tempted to go out on a limb saying how that method of interpretation/reaction of hers to normal dialogue might be (or may have been) a powder keg worth avoiding anyways.
Careful there. (snip)


I think the potential powder keg would be hanging up the phone in reaction to hearing something she didn't like. It sounds as if it was done pretty abruptly.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 7:46:36 PM   
ZenDragoness


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I have not time for an longer answer Steel of Utah, but the Thread title is quite beautiful.

Being a Realist has it's faults...very nice!

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 8:14:49 PM   
DavanKael


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We all have our preferences and our 'wish list'.  That you were up front about the potential of/for bruising is honest, reasonable, and really, imo, the only acceptable way to be. 
I also thought the distinctions that you and Jeff teased out about potential versus required are important.  That shows that you're willing to put a relationship ahead of a personal kink and that you're treating a person more like, well, a person than a wind-up toy.  These strike me as highly reasonable things. 
And, personally, I like bruises from fun grown-up activities (Vanilla or otherwise, though I find vanilla and kinky less and less realistically applicable terms); I feel smug when I look at them.  :> 
  Davan

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 11:28:36 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Careful there. Normal to whom? Normal to Joe-I-Invented-BDSM or normal to a mostly vanilla girl (or guy in my case). I got it wrong too and to my knowlege I don't have any particular axe to grind in this question at all.

I may go back and reread, but what I was referring to was actually just an individual way of perceiving words, irrelevant, actually, of whether the topic was kink-related or not. My suspicion (which could be wrong) is still that there was a slightly knee-jerk reaction to what could have been interpreted as a refusal to take someone's feelings into consideration when, in actuality, it was a neutral, objective expression of the reality of things. Some people just naturally have a more defensive way of reading or hearing certain things...and that's a reference of "normal" to anyone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

In fact, I kind of think highly of Steel so I would've tended towards optimisim and still I interpreted it as him, the dom, saying "If you're mine, you'll let me bruise you if I want and yes, I want to." To which she said, "Well I don't want that." I think there are two potential communications that she might've heard and her responses would've varied wildly depending on which one she actually heard.

Possibly. But, what struck me is that her response was an immediate hang-up (presumably without the allowance for continued discussion and explanation in specifics). That, moreso than the actual reaction, is what would worry me as far as being, myself, someone who could potentially enter into a relationship with such a person. I try to make myself utterly clear when I'm talking to someone (particularly in relationships) and would feel uncomfortable with someone I felt was prone to make hasty decisions based on an interpretation of something I said before asking me to elaborate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

This is one reason I am soo glad that Carol and I didn't try to start our M/s relationship from scratch. With both of us exploring together, it was and still is way easy to say, "well, we'll just hold hands and walk this road together." Nobody has any prewritten needs or desires or fears. I've often wondered how differently it would've gone (both better and worse) if we had just met with me as a prospective M and her a prospective s. It certainly would've put a different flavor on the whole thing if nothing else.

Well, that probably certainly helped because you both had a number of years of getting accustomed to how the other acts and reacts. Even in something as simple as knowing when someone with a more dry sense of humor is being facetious (argh...I can't stand that word yet it's contextually ideal here) or if that person is actually being scathingly blunt, familiarity with the likelihood of each is built through time with the person (I'm sure you can probably recount a time when you and/or her meant something and the other took it completely the wrong way).

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 5/21/2009 11:31:33 PM >


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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 11:29:42 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: smartalex

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
While she's perfectly entitled to that limit...I'm tempted to go out on a limb saying how that method of interpretation/reaction of hers to normal dialogue might be (or may have been) a powder keg worth avoiding anyways.
Careful there. (snip)


I think the potential powder keg would be hanging up the phone in reaction to hearing something she didn't like. It sounds as if it was done pretty abruptly.


25 points.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/22/2009 7:43:01 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero (and also smartalex)
Possibly. But, what struck me is that her response was an immediate hang-up (presumably without the allowance for continued discussion and explanation in specifics). That, moreso than the actual reaction, is what would worry me as far as being, myself, someone who could potentially enter into a relationship with such a person. I try to make myself utterly clear when I'm talking to someone (particularly in relationships) and would feel uncomfortable with someone I felt was prone to make hasty decisions based on an interpretation of something I said before asking me to elaborate.


*nods* And I get that. And I keyed in on the same point also... the abrupt hanging up of the phone. But it was my sense that this woman was somewhat new to all this... although not totally new clearly. Assuming I'm right, then I'm excusing her in my head for being overly intimidated. I still find BDSM'ers to be vaguely intimidating/threatening and this is after several munches, a handful of MaST meetings, all the time on collarme and even a few people I count as friends. Depending on how far she is coming from vanilla-land, it can all be pretty overwhelming. I often suspect that the old-salts on these boards really don't remember anything about back in the day. Then again, most of the old salts on this board will tell you that they knew they were whatever they are from the womb onwards so it was never a shock to them.

Note... if I'm wrong about her being fairly new into BDSM, then I am SOOO with the folks who are looking at that hangup and saying, "crazy bitch, run fast, run far". It was definitely some sort of over-reaction... the question in my mind is what was driving it?

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/22/2009 10:04:12 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I often suspect that the old-salts on these boards really don't remember anything about back in the day. Then again, most of the old salts on this board will tell you that they knew they were whatever they are from the womb onwards so it was never a shock to them.

20 points for the chuckle alone.


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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/22/2009 10:19:41 AM   
califsue


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I think you did the right thing and I think she got scared if she just hung up.
If she is new to the lifestyle and depending on what she has read and stuff, the idea
of bruising and impact play might scare her. Sometimes I don't bruise all that
easily and other times I do. As long, as it not visible to my co-workers, family that
sort of thing it isn't an issue. Maybe she thought otherwise.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
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