RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 7:34:11 AM)

my problem isnt that they are married, or that they are collared... its that they lie to hide that fact.  married?  be honest with your partner.  how can i expect you to keep a promise to me when you cant to someone you vowed a commitment too?  collared?  again, its all about honesty.  i never have understood the "i'm married but the hubby/wife is too vanilla"  if you cant be grown up enough to admit that to your spouse, i will never view you as being grown up enough to be in a D/s relationship




TickledToDeath -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 7:36:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

Thats how it seems to me; that a sub who is collared is off limits, but if she is married she is not.  Why would that be??  

Different protocols perhaps. In the BDSM world one who is collared is "owned" by his/her Master/Mistress whereas in Marriage, the wife or husband is not "owned" and bound only by their word  and promise to each other and religious beliefs as well as how society portrays them. A ring on the finger is in a way like a "collar" around the neck but society does not recognize dom/sub relationships.
Open marriages are a whole other story in that respect. That is between the two parties and those outside the marriage.
As was said, the Master/Mistress can give permission for the sub to play with others as can a husband or wife give permission per say to his or her husband or wife to play outside the marriage.
Collar or Ring, it is the commitment to one another that is the bond. The rest is protocol and paperwork.





oceanwinds -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 7:39:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

my problem isnt that they are married, or that they are collared... its that they lie to hide that fact.  married?  be honest with your partner.  how can i expect you to keep a promise to me when you cant to someone you vowed a commitment too?  collared?  again, its all about honesty.  i never have understood the "i'm married but the hubby/wife is too vanilla"  if you cant be grown up enough to admit that to your spouse, i will never view you as being grown up enough to be in a D/s relationship


Totally agree with what you said tazzygirl




CreativeDominant -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 7:43:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

Thats how it seems to me; that a sub who is collared is off limits, but if she is married she is not.  Why would that be??  
I think part of that perception comes from the belief of some that many married people, if they respond in a positive fashion to being "hit on" are just that...open to exploring not just play but a new partner as well.  In D/s BDSM, you will find that collared submissives are often available for play due to their Master/Mistress's inclinations and their own wants/needs/desires but that play is in a controlled fashion and in this world, it does not...usually...equate to the availability as a partner in the same manner as it does in the vanilla world.

You can find plenty of profiles on this site from collared female submissives in which it is stated that they are available for play, under terms specified by their Master/Mistress.  That doesn't mean they are available to become your submissive/partner.  That is the general "given" understood in the D/s BDSM world.  In the vanilla world, being married means not being available for either play or the next natural progression...a partner.  If a married woman IS available for play, then unless she is involved in an open marriage, it generally means that she is available as a partner also and that this play is taking place without the knowledge of her partner.

Are there "shit for brains" who refuse to understand that some situations...married or D/s, married AND D/s, not married but collared, not married but committed BUT NOT AVAILABLE FOR PLAY in any form or fashion ... are not open to play?  Yes, but those are to be found in the vanilla and in the D/s world.  Despite what can be read about honor and integrity and proper modes of behavior in the D/s world, some people refuse to believe that they should follow any of that.  There are the same types of books out in the vanilla world favoring that type of honorable behavior and people still do not follow it. 

A person has to choose whether or not he/she will be honorable.  You can rationalize in a thousand ways but one of the things that helped bring me back to a more honorable way of living was a statement by my therapist:  if you are sharing intimacies with another...whether it be emotional or physical or whatever...and your partner is unaware, then it doesn't matter how YOU see it;  if your partner sees it as CHEATING and you know he/she does and you still continue...it's cheating.

I deal with married submissives, single submissives, married dominants, married dominants, collared and uncollared...married or not...submissives.  The only really free game are those submissives that are single and not collared and not involved.  As for the rest?  Some of these folks are open to play and some are not.  The ones that are open to play are those I would consider playing with, as long as their partner knows and as long as there seems to be in place at least some measure of a mechanism that ensures that, due to the vulnerability that can take place during play, the play does not result in a situational dependance on me being translated into one existing outside of play.  The ones that would be open to play AND being taken on as my partner, I do my best not to get too involved with let alone play with...because if they are open to being taken on as my partner and their dominant doesn't know it, then that is a form of cheating and I don't want to do that.  I've hurt people with deceptive and/or rationalization of my acts in the past...I just don't want to do that anymore.





Drakontos -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 7:48:36 AM)

zaphira would have to agree with TickledToDeath concerning the statement of commitment.
zaphira and Master are not married; nor will we ever be. zaphira is property and Master does not marry property.
However, the committment to the relationship is only as binding as the words that we speak to one another. A collar, or a wedding band are nothing more than symbols of that committment; but neither is binding.

When zaphira was collared, she promised to Master her loyalty, her fidelity, and her service. This slave took those promises very seriously. Master promised to zaphira that he would always care for and protect her; he took his promises seriously. For us; the committment to the relationship means much more than a ring or a collar.

It is unfortunate though that not all see their own relationships in the same light. Their word is only as binding as the next promise that comes along.




antipode -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 9:07:14 AM)

quote:

but if she is married she is not


Ah, you're looking for the rulebook.

There isn't one. A sub will tell you if they are available or not, regardless of their status. Are you getting this from reading profiles, or do you actually talk to them?




LadyPact -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 9:14:56 AM)

I don't think it's so much that collared is off limits and married is not.  What I have observed, however, is that often there will be some folks who incorrectly assume that kinky folks will have lower moral standards than other groups.  Since we're more familiar with poly or open relationships, they automatically believe that 'married and cheating' will somehow be more openly accepted as well.  Quite often, they are disappointed to find out that it doesn't quite work that way.




Prinsexx -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 9:20:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

Thats how it seems to me; that a sub who is collared is off limits, but if she is married she is not.  Why would that be??  

That depends on what a collar means and what marriage means to those implicated.





leadership527 -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 11:52:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

Thats how it seems to me; that a sub who is collared is off limits, but if she is married she is not.  Why would that be??  

Really? From my admittedly minor experience, it seems to me that people are people and some have more open relationships than others. Also, some are willing to cheat on their partners. Whether it's a collar or a ring doesn't seem to make much difference except in lip service.




IronBear -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 12:09:22 PM)

Looking at this from the other side of the coin. If I am meeting someone and they lie, telling me they are unattached and I find them out in the lie, they are out the door with my boot up their ass no matter how beautiful or even how much they are what I seek. It is a matter of honour and I will not dishonour myself by knowingly play or bed a female who is attached behind her significant other's knowledge and agreement. This is and has been all my adult life a hard and fast rule. 




Prinsexx -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 1:32:24 PM)

Anyone prepared to admit that the collared ones and/or married ones are more attractive/alluring/beguiling than the single ones?
Or is it just me who stereotypically wonders what's wrong with someone whose single then?
Ok, ok, ok, i'm the only one who ever thought this....




IronBear -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 1:35:47 PM)

Hell yes they are a challenge. I  get twice as many passes when people realise I'm married to a lady 30 years younger..A right royal pain in the ass but strokes my ego too which is not a bad thing in small doses..  




YourhandMyAss -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 1:54:03 PM)

I had a friend online who was 40 and I was 19 and his wife was so pissed off she's like  what would a 40 year old want with a 19 year old if it's not sex? She couldn't see that we were a platonic friendship, and when I invited him, and his wife  to a choir event at my school I was going to be in  she hit the roof.  She even went so far as to pretend to be him to see what we talked about one time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Married, taken, dating, collared....if you're involved with someone else..at least for me...you're off limits. I won't go near you with a ten foot pole, not even to befriend you. Yeah..I've had women come after me just because I befriended their husband/boyfriend so these days I just don't even talk to married/dating/collared men. Just makes my life a helluva lot easier.





FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 2:18:47 PM)

To myself, when considering someone for a relationship, there is no differentiation between collared vs married.   They are both considered attached, and therefore unqualified to be mine, as I don't even consider shared loyalty, outside of maybe casual/non intimate play.    M




SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 2:42:30 PM)

quote:

re
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Anyone prepared to admit that the collared ones and/or married ones are more attractive/alluring/beguiling than the single ones?
Or is it just me who stereotypically wonders what's wrong with someone whose single then?
Ok, ok, ok, i'm the only one who ever thought this....



Huh? This is like Newton's sixth law or something like that.

I know guys who wear their wedding rings even though they're divorced because next to a dog, baby or ferrari it's the most magnetic thing known to women.

That's why I've always liked having hot female friends. As frustrating as it is not dating them, going out with them is always beneficial to my rep. Other women see you hanging out with a nice looking women and they get all competitive or whatever.

It's amazing how good the baby is to attract women though. My sister is pretty attractive and has an 18 month old and I go to the park or mall with them and it's like bees to honey.

Regarding the bolded part, a sure way to excuse yourself from a second date with me is to ask 'so, why are you single?' on the first one.

It's completely insulting to me that because I haven't been married (and in a lot of cases divorced) at 34 I'm somehow damaged goods. Usually this is asked by women who are my 26-35 who have been divorced and/or have much baggage from previous relationships. Usually I just say 'because I'm really f'in smart' and think about how much longer this date is going to take.




IronBear -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 2:55:48 PM)

I also find when I walk the Malamute and Malamute/Husky cross, they are a chick magnet just as my two Afghan Hounds were years ago.... 




SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 3:38:53 PM)

Of the things I've experienced:

1. Baby
2. Ferrari
3. Dog




Whenready -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 3:55:03 PM)

Soooo... is it the deceit not the marriage/collar? Curious how poly is fine - but - not if you're married... and play is fine as long as its only play....its ok dear I'm not being serious about this act of infidelity... its only play and your master says its fine..... of course I could have the wrong stick, not just the wrong end...but... that doesnt QUITE seem to add up to Me....




MissShibari -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/22/2009 4:53:22 PM)

Collared, married, whatever - I agree that a commitment is a commitment and that makes them off-limits without the knowledge and consent of all other involved parties, be they Dom, sub, spouse, partner or what have you.




Firebirdseeking -> RE: why is collared "off limits" but married is not? (5/23/2009 6:15:25 AM)

First, I am not looking for a rule book,  I know who I am and what I believe.  However, it seems to me that there are SO many here that say "married vanilla"; dont they think that is cheating?  And if one is "married vanilla", and is seeking a sub, what kind of master or dominant is that, he (or she) evidently doenst have his (or her) life under control.  

And right.  Someone who lies to the spouse is a liar.  He or she will lie.  Period.  




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